Teethering and minivans

[AnnD]

Read this somewhere else - so thought I would ask the question here too (you do learn a lot on these forums).

I have a 2004 Sienna. I had two Marathons in the back row - both outboard as I don't think (but could be wrong) two could go side by side in the third row. I had them both teethered but one was teethered to the 'middle' teether (two teethers on the seat back) even though it was outboard (so the teether was on an angle). Is that allowed?

Along the same lines, my rf Roundabout (and now Radian) is teethered in a captains chair to the front seat post (nothing moves)- again on a similar angle to the seats teethered in the rear. Is this allowed? It seems similar so if one is allowed but the other isn't - it doesn't make much sense.

I no longer have two Marathons in the back - but might again install two teethered seats back there (two frontiers) - can I do that?

I also have (I think) three 'teether' like pieces on the floor of the cargo space - are those teethers anchors as well (they look exactly the same). The manual is very difficult to read (but I will pull it out again). I think one is directly behind the outboard driver's side so is that a better choice than than the middle on the seat back. This is a little bit of guessing - I just saw the post and realized I might be doing it wrong.

[Wineaux]

You need to get out the vehicle manual for your Sienna and look up the LATCH instructions. Most likely it will be found under "child restraints". You will find pictures showing you exactly where the top tether anchor points are for each seating position. If there isn't one available for that seating location, then you should choose another seating location that does have a top tether anchor.

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[CDNTech]

The 2004 Sienna has full LATCH in 4 positions (5 for the 8 passenger)...

FULL LATCH...
3rd row Passenger Outboard
3rd row Center
2nd row - all positions (including optional 8th seat)

There is NO tether anchor in the 3rd row driver's side and you can NOT use the center anchor for the driver's outboard install.

The forces for forward facing tethers are *much* greater than for rear facing. For forward facing you are not allowed to exceed a 20 degree angle from the seat and the tether *should* go as straight back as possible. In addition to this, tethers are approved for certain locations and can *only* be used for approved locations.

The forces for rear facing are much different and these angles can be exceeded, although again, closer to the center is better.

You should be able to install two seats next to each other in your third row... the seats need to be independently installed. Which means that if you install both of them and then take the first one you installed out, the second one is still installed perfectly with less than one inch of movement.

Installing the two seats side by side will most likely cause the center seat to overlap slightly into the driver's outboard position and you won't be able to fit anyone there to sit comfortably/properly (depending on the child restraint used)... but that doesn't sound like an issue for you.

[southpawboston]

just a friendly FYI, teethers are for mouths, tethers are for carseats :D.

[AnnD]

And I thought I was a decent speller ...

Why do they design minivans like this (I did read the manual after I posted - and I can say you are all correct!)? How do you tether four car seats in a minivan and not have world war III in the back row? I admit - not many moms out there with four kids in five years, but I am - and I would like to keep the six year old in a five point.

I should be able to put two radians side-by-side. However, putting the 2 year old and 4 year old side by side is not exactly a situation I would be pleased to have. (They fight!)

I know I have heard you can get new tethers installed - can I get my dealer to do that for the third row. Cost is irrelevant - peace of mind and no fighting would be better.

I have two Frontiers on pre-order - any five points in CAnada don't require tethers? Maybe I should cancel a Frontier and get a different seat. Maybe I should forgo the five point and keep my 6 year old in a Parkway and then no tether issues in the backrow.

This is impossible - but thanks.

[snowbird25ca]

I know I have heard you can get new tethers installed - can I get my dealer to do that for the third row. Cost is irrelevant - peace of mind and no fighting would be better.

I have two Frontiers on pre-order - any five points in CAnada don't require tethers? Maybe I should cancel a Frontier and get a different seat. Maybe I should forgo the five point and keep my 6 year old in a Parkway and then no tether issues in the backrow.

This is impossible - but thanks.

Vehicles that come from the factory with tether anchors can't have more installed, so you're stuck with what you have. OTOH, it's fabulous that you have full LATCH in all 4 locations. :thumbsup:

All 5pt ff'ing harnessed seats in Canada have to be top tethered in order to meet the standards for head excursion, so a different seat isn't really an option.

What about putting one of the kids in the Radian in the 3rd row and one of the Frontiers next to it? Then other Radian and other Frontier in the captains chairs? You could put whichever kids were best together beside each other. :thumbsup:

And yes, leaving the 6yr old in the parkway is an option, but since you've said you really want her to be in a 5pt still, I think I'd explore the idea of if 2 of your kids would sit well beside each other before giving up on the 5pt idea.

OR, you could put the rf'ing radian in the 3rd row outboard and install it with seatbelt, then you'd have the other outboard in the 3rd row and both captain's chairs for tether anchors. (IIRC you have 3 ff'ing and 1 rf'ing, right?) I'm honestly not sure how well a rf'ing radian would fit in the 3rd row though so you'd have to give it a try first to see if it would work.

[Jeanum]

I also have (I think) three 'teether' like pieces on the floor of the cargo space - are those teethers anchors as well (they look exactly the same). The manual is very difficult to read (but I will pull it out again). I think one is directly behind the outboard driver's side so is that a better choice than than the middle on the seat back. This is a little bit of guessing - I just saw the post and realized I might be doing it wrong.

No, the actual tether anchors for the third row in the '04 and newer Sienna are located behind the passenger and center seating positions on the lower edge of the vehicle seatback. The Sienna does not have more tether anchors in the cargo area. My '05 Sienna, which is identical to the '04 model, has some silver brackets for a cargo net near the back of the hatch opening, just below the bumper, and those silver bracket aren't tether anchors (or teethers ;)), either.

[QuassEE]

OP--what did your manual say about using the rear tether anchor for the two seating positions it is centered between? If I remember correctly, even the '04 Sienna had two LATCH positions in the back but they're NOT passenger outboard and centre--they're actually passenger outboard and between driver and centre. That tether anchor is at approximately a 20 degree angle to both seating positions, and I do not see why it would be permissible to use for centre but not outboard (w/belt - per aidensmom02) when it's at an equal angle for both seating positions.

-Nicole.

[CDNTech]

OP--what did your manual say about using the rear tether anchor for the two seating positions it is centered between? If I remember correctly, even the '04 Sienna had two LATCH positions in the back but they're NOT passenger outboard and centre--they're actually passenger outboard and between driver and centre. That tether anchor is at approximately a 20 degree angle to both seating positions, and I do not see why it would be permissible to use for centre but not outboard (w/belt - per aidensmom02) when it's at an equal angle for both seating positions.

-Nicole.

If it is centered between the two positions... then I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use it either. I didn't realize it was centered between the two.

Our '03 Grand Caravan had a tether anchor off-center and it was permitted to be used in the passenger or center position.

Our '08 GC is also off center and can be used in the driver or center position... actually I'd have to double check my owner's manual if it tells me I'm allowed or not... I just know it's centered between the two and use it for whichever position I need it for because it's at the same angle for either seat. Just never two tether hooks on the same anchor. ;)

[QuassEE]

My '05 Sienna was the same model, but sometimes manuals do differ after the first model year run. I used the centered TA for both seating positions and LATCH, although it was really rare for me to have a harnessed seat in the back. There was no restriction in my manual (unlike my Ody, my Sienna was Canadian), but I can't remember if it specifically identified that TA as being for both seating positions.

I, for one, am completely comfortable with the TA angle in the rear row of the Sienna, as long as it's centered between those two seats (2004+)...

-Nicole.

[AnnD]

NAK - and a bad speller ...

thks again - will check, but i understood my manual as saying outboard and centre. I will check the manual again as well as the anchor location. Off the cuff, I say it is centred on the centre seat - so no go, but will check again.

If two Frontiers will go side by side, I am OK - not sure they will (as haven't seen them!) The 2 year old is the battle of wills boy (in all aspects of his life, not just in the car - he is a very very busy boy with a lot of 2 year old attitude). Two frontiers and the two older pair (6 and 4) and I am cool, as they will be!

Of note ... where do you tether a rf radian (or any seat) in the third row? I have removed the captains chairs before and never noticed anything permanently fixed to attach a rear tether. Not sure it would fit regardless ... I also have a MA which i could use. Not sure I or the nanny would be able to get back to that position to put the kiddo into the seat either - you would need to be petite and acrobatic to accomplish it. (My cargo is full with a double stroller and other misc. items to manage a family of four kiddos!)

I will keep you all posted - as I have grasped that the fine details are of interest to people!

[CDNTech]

There is no fixed point for tethering rear facing. The Radian and Marathon both come with d-rings. It is a short piece of webbing that has a loop at one end and a metal "d" ring at the other. You wrap the d-ring around a seat track leg or seatbelt stalk... something that is fixed/bolted to the floor of the vehicle. Then the metal "d" goes through the webbing loop and voila... you've just created a RFing tether anchor point. Your tether hook gets clipped to the metal "d".

[AnnD]

Sorry - wasn't clear - I don't remember anything solid, non-moveable to attach the d-ring if using a RF seat in the third row. The captain's chairs are removable - and all that is left are slots in the floor (which are integral to the movement and install of the seat). Not sure, but I would be worried that adding a d-ring would make the captain seat insecure.

Anyone ever attach a d-ring to the back of a captain's chair set-up (that is full removable from the van). It is easy to attach the d-ring to the front seat solid structure (i.e. a captain chair install in the 2nd row) but nothing like that exists (that I can see - and definitely not in the manual) in the '04 Sienna for a third row install to 'secure' to the 2nd row captain's chair.

[CDNTech]

Do you have the 8 passenger or the 7 passenger?

Are there anchors in the floor that the seats hook to? You could wrap the d-ring around one of those anchors if the seat is not going to be in the vehicle.

If the tether anchor on the back of the 2nd row seat is not being used for FFing, you can use it for RFing (no d-ring needed in this case).

Without seeing the vehicle, it's hard to come up with a solution for you. :o

[AnnD]

Good point on the front captain chair anchor - thought it was an awesome idea BUT ... I thinking about moving the RF car seat to the third row because I don't have enough anchors in the back to put them in.

It is a 7 seat passenger - I understand it is very difficult to visualize someone's elses car - I appreciate the efforts.

Thanks for the ideas - minivans aren't made for families with four young kiddos, and a 2 year old that hits!!! I will see if I can get two Frontiers side-by-side (go to the US side for now) - otherwise, I think I am screwed. Fighting in the back seems like a truly unpleasant idea for the amount of driving that happens around here.