Help putting car seats in 1995 Suburban

[t_jones]

We just got a 95 Suburban.

We have a Britax Marathon and a Britax Regent both fwd facing, one child is 18 mo, 24 lbs, other is 4 yrs, 38 lbs.

We will be putting them in the second row, although we have a third factory seat. our other car has latches and top tethers (Honda), so we are not happy with how the seats are not snug in the Sub.

The belt for the Regent is not long enough to route the belt the long way, we have to go the short way and it doesnt have the red locking clip that the Marathon has
.
What can we do to the Sub to get the same safe fit and feel of the latches?
What do I need to make this safe?
I can do anything mechanical that is needed.
Can I install the EZ-On Tether mounts straight down from the back of the seat so the tether goes over the back of the seat and straight down? the EZ-On catalog shows them back at a 45 deg angle but that would be under the third row

I have seen the harness system by EZ-On, is that a safe alternative to a seat such as the Regent? In that case I would have to mount the anchors straight under the back of the seat.

[Mommy2Marcus]

I wish I could be of more help with the installs, but I am not. I just wanted to say with as small as your 18 month old is he/she should really be RF. It is proven that RF is SO much safer than FF is at this age. My 25lb 19 month old rides RF still. Here is the information! Make sure to watch the video that is the 1st link!


Rear Facing is the Safest Way to Travel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psmUWg7QrC8

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends rear-facing for as long as possible (to the limits of a convertible seat) for the best protection, which would be to 30-35 lbs. OR when the head is 1-inch from the top of the carseat.

http://babyproducts.about.com/od/carseats/qt/rear_facing.htm
According to NHTSA, a rear-facing car seat is 71 percent safer than no restraint at all, and a forward-facing car seat is 54 percent safer than no restraint at all.

When a child is forward-facing, there is a lot of stress put on his/her neck in a crash. The weight of a child's head in a crash causes the spinal column to stretch...the spinal cord, however, is NOT meant to stretch! This can cause a tear...which means paralysis or even death. This is referred to as "internal decapitation"...the child's head would be slumped forward and it would look as though he/she was sleeping. It doesn't matter if the child has great head control...that means nothing. New data is showing that a forward-facing child is 4 times more likely to be seriously injured or killed than a rear-facing child of the same age.

(note: having a carseat that allows tethering RFing reduces this risk (only two brands on the market currently allow this feature, Britax and Sunshine kids). New carseats can almost always can be tethered FFing which reduces head excursion in an accident. Even older cars can be retrofitted to add Top Tether Anchors)

Rear-facing seats do such a great job of protecting children because the back of the carseat absorbs the crash forces. The child's head, neck, and spine are kept in alignment, allowing the carseat to absorb the forces. The child's head is also kept contained in the carseat, decreasing the risk of coming into contact with projectiles.

More RF info:

1) rear-end collisions are less frequent than front-end collisions

2) rear-end collisions statistically occur at much lower impact speeds than front-end collisions

3) side impact collisions are less dangerous when RFing because of the way the carseat rotates in a side-impact collision.

4.) A forward-facing child under 2 years old is 4 times MORE likely to be killed or seriously injured in a crash and that the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends rear-facing for as long as possible for the best protection and that there has never been a single reported case of hip/leg/foot injury from rear-facing.

5.)What about big babies? A 95th percentile baby may look stronger than his 5th percentile friend, but in a crash the bigger baby is likely MORE at risk if he's riding forward-facing. The rigidity of bones and the strength of ligaments in the spine is likely the same in children of the same age, no matter their size. And a 95th percentile baby likely has a much larger, heavier head, which will pull forward which much more force than that of a 5th percentile child.

6.) Many parents in the US think it's "weird" to have a 2 year old rear-facing--most children are switched to forward-facing around their first birthday. But if you lived in Sweden, the idea of a 2 year old FORWARD-facing would be "weird," as they keep kids rear-facing until the ages of 3 or 5. In Sweden, children go straight from rear-facing seats to booster seats! Because kids sit rear-facing for so long, fewer than 1 child a year dies in a rear-facing car seat in Sweden. If we also kept more kids rear-facing, we would not only see fewer deaths, but also fewer injuries--especially the really hard to fix ones like those to the spinal cord and head.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9916868/
http://www.thecarseatlady.com/car_seats/rear-facing_seats.html

[t_jones]

ok. thanks for the info, RF or FF i need some help with the seatbelts and anchors mostly. The 18 mo pukes constantly when RF. I have read the stuff you posted before, we kinda switch her around. we dont drive much (hardly at all) and she hasnt gotten used to it. the sub is for some long trips planned later this year, we'll try Rf again.

[Mommy2Marcus]

You're welcome! I understand the RF car sickness issue as my DS used to get car sick as well when RF, so I turned him FF at 13 months. However something that might help with the car sickness. With her age she does not need the full 45 degree angle for RF. She can be as upright as 30 degrees. How to achive a more upright install is to pull the base out from the seat bight about an inch or 2 then when tightening the belt push down where the feet go. This will make it more upright when fully tightened. Just make sure that if she falls asleep her head does not fall forward!

How you might be able to get a tighter install with your Marathon is to twist the belt stalk, where the belt buckles into, up to three full times. It might be with your Marathon that the belt stalk is getting into the belt path & making it hard for you to finish tightening. So try twisting the belt stalk up to three full twists. That should help with the Marathon to get a tighter install.

I am however unsure on the Regent as I have only installed the Husky. It might take 2 people to install it. You might also be able to tap the recline bar in some with a rubber mallat to make it a little bit less reclined & that might make the belt long enough. Also try having one person get into the seat with their knees & push it into the seat while the other person installs the seat.

Good Luck & I hope this helped you some!

BTW: Here is a picture of my 19 month olds Marathon installed RF at 30 degrees. I think that being more upright really helped his car sickness!

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s260/Jasmine_Moonstone/Car%20seats/007-3.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s260/Jasmine_Moonstone/Car%20seats/011-3.jpg

[Defrost]

Hello & welcome!

In order to help with seat belt installation tips, we first need to figure out how/if the seat belts lock. You may have different types of seat belts for different seating positions, so you'll need to figure out which is which for each seating position you'll be installing a carseat.

Do you have the vehicle manual? It will tell you what kind of seat belts you have. That's the easiest way to find out. If it didn't come with the manual, you can access it online here (https://www.mygmlink.com/main/US/en/chevrolet/home?source=chevyhp).

Once you get that figured out, we can offer better tips on installing the carseats with the seat belts.

Now, first off, are you absolutely certain the seat belt is too short for the long-belt-path install on the Regent? A lot of times it seems too short, but then once you get the seat compressed and really push on it, you can manage to get it buckled.

Having tether anchors installed is also a very good idea - the Regent will require a tether anchor once your child is over 50lbs, and it helps carseats protect your kids better regardless. :thumbsup:

You should be able to have them installed at a dealer, or you can order the parts through Chevy and install them yourself if you're confident in your skills. :D Hopefully someone with a LATCH manual will post with the part numbers you'll need.

You can install the EZ-On tether anchors closer to the vehicle seat where they'll be used, but not under them. They would need to be straight down. However, that may not be possible depending on what's below that area of the vehicle.

The EZ-On harnesses are designed for special needs and special circumstances - they aren't essentially less safe than a carseat, but there are major differences. The first and most obvious difference being ease-of-use; they're not nearly as easy to buckle as a carseat harness. I think you'd be happier sticking with the seats you have. :)

I've been getting really solid carseat installs with seatbelts for years in all kinds of different cars, so I'm pretty confident you should be able to get just as good an install in your new Suburban as you do in your Honda - it just takes a little getting used to!

[singingpond]

I just wanted to add a general comment (which will not be specifically helpful with your Suburban, since I have no familiarity with that particular vehicle). But, my general comment is that you are going from LATCH installs in your Honda, which you are familiar and comfortable with, to seatbelt installs in the Suburban... which is a new domain. You are basically facing a new learning curve, but that's OK.

Seatbelt installs can be just as safe and secure as LATCH installs, but you probably need to learn some new tricks before you are satisfied with the results.

I agree that you want to try to get the tether anchors retrofitted for your vehicle (these are for the top tether, i.e. the strap that runs down from the back of the carseat). Chevy is supposed to provide at least one tether anchor free for older vehicles; however, you may have to pursue this fairly vigorously, as many dealerships are clueless about the whole issue. It's possible that someone here may be able to give you the relevant part numbers for the Suburban, which will help with actually prying the needed parts out of Chevy.

If you can give more information about your seatbelts (as Defrost suggested), and if you can describe a bit more about what problems you are encountering in your installs, people here will be able to give more detailed advice on how to get your seats in tightly with the seatbelts. Hopefully someone who has a Regent in a Suburban will come along to address the seatbelt length issue. You could also try searching for old threads on the forum, since this is not an uncommon vehicle/seat combination.

Incidentally, I have only installed carseats with seatbelts (our newest vehicle is a '96), so I would have a similar feeling of uncertainty if I suddenly had to install a carseat using LATCH. So, I can sympathize with your situation, but, as another poster said, it'll probably just 'take a little getting used to' before you have solid installs in your 'new' vehicle.

Katrin

[bombedier]

Tether anchor part # is not listed in the LATCH manual, however this part will be provided and installed free of charge by your Chevy dealership. Have them refer to technical service bulletin 99-09-40-004 from General Motors.

[featherhead]

My sister had a tether anchor installed in the second row of an older suburban as well (not sure the year). It didn't have to be at a 45 degree angle. It was basically straight down from the back of the seat.

[skaterbabscpst]

Your Suburban has locking latchplates; a locking clip is not necessary. Your retrofit tether anchor will likely be a metal loop you buckle into the 3rd row seatbelt buckle. Honestly, it's not worth the trouble, just tether to the third row seatbelt and you'll be fine. I can take pictures if that will help you (I have a '93 Suburban.) I use the lap belt with the factory retrofit anchor for my forward facing seats because I an effectively tether two seats to the one seating position. Since the lapbelt is not good for perpeople anyway (only car seats should use it) it works.

[t_jones]

sorry I was away for a couple of days.

Thank you all for the replies.

The seatbelts dont have locking reels, there is only one reel for each seating place (bottom is anchored and top has a guide that goes into pillar where the reel is.) The tab thingy (what is that called? the latchplate?) that goes into the button thingy (ok now I feel dumb.. the receiver?) does kind of lock when you cinch it down as skaterbabs said - but I have full shoulder belts in all three rows - so using just the lap belts isnt an option.

Skaterbabs - could you send me a photo if its not too much trouble? Where did you get the tether anchor that plugs into the third row seatbelt?

we dont use our third row seats much, so I would prefer anchors in the floor. I will most likely try to put EZ-On style anchors or have the chevy dealer put theirs in the floor just behind the second row.

bombedier - thanks for the service bulletin #, we have a decent dealer here they will help us out I think.

So, I will try the seatbelt again on the regent in the long method and really put my knee into it.. The main problem seem to be that the receiver is long enough that it ends up almost inside the seat from the back into the hole where the belt goes which makes it hard to get it super tight. the seat moves from side to side more than an inch or two even with the tether secured to a cargo tiedown in the back.

The manual doesnt say much, its an american car from 1995 - it says to refer to the carseat manual.

thank you again so much for the help!

[skaterbabscpst]

To get a floor-mounted tether anchor you will have to contact EZ-On. The Chevy anchor uses the 3rd row seatbelt buckle. I'll try to get pics for you tomorrow. I have them, but not on this computer.

You can not use a cargo anchor as a tether anchor. Until you get tether anchors installed you must either not tether the seat or put your 3rd row back in and tether to a 3rd row seatbelt.

Your center seatbelts should be lap-only belts - Chevy didn't even offer center lap/shoulder belts until this year or last for the Suburban.

Your seatbelts lock at the buckle, not the retractor. They're called locking latchplates. As long as the belt webbing pieces are parallel to each other, the seatbelt will be locked.

[Defrost]

The seatbelts dont have locking reels, there is only one reel for each seating place (bottom is anchored and top has a guide that goes into pillar where the reel is.) The tab thingy (what is that called? the latchplate?) that goes into the button thingy (ok now I feel dumb.. the receiver?) does kind of lock when you cinch it down as skaterbabs said - but I have full shoulder belts in all three rows - so using just the lap belts isnt an option.

Seat belts seem like a basic thing until you start trying to describe them, huh? :D Just so we're all speaking the same language:
the "reels" are called retractors
the "tab thingy" is the latchplate
the "receiver" is the buckle

Keep in mind that even with lap/shoulder belts, you are still only installing the carseat with the lap portion of the belt. The shoulder portion does provide some stability and it will lock in a crash and help hold the seat, but when you're installing, you're focused on the lap-portion of the belt - on getting it tight.

So, I will try the seatbelt again on the regent in the long method and really put my knee into it.. The main problem seem to be that the receiver is long enough that it ends up almost inside the seat from the back into the hole where the belt goes which makes it hard to get it super tight. the seat moves from side to side more than an inch or two even with the tether secured to a cargo tiedown in the back.

A few things - first, you can twist the buckle stalk (the webbing that anchors the buckle) up to three full times to shorten it. That's three 360 degree turns. That will make it shorter, and hopefully it will solve that problem.

Locking latchplates are usually great for installing carseats, once you get the hang of them. They have to be angled correctly, though, and sometimes they end up leaning on the carseat at an angle, which prevents them from staying locked. In that case, you can just flip the latchplate over 180 degrees, and buckle it "upside down." That will force the webbing and latchplate into the correct angle to stay locked.

The seat needs to move less than inch, when tested with one hand at the belt path (no grabbing the front and top of the seat and yanking!) BEFORE you add the tether. The tether is a supplemental restraint - it doesn't fix an install that's too loose.

And, like skaterbabs pointed out, cargo hooks can't be used as tether anchors, except for a VERY few exceptions, which are specifically listed in the vehicle manual.

Before you contact EZ-On about purchasing their tether anchors, you should read their instructions and make sure you'll be able to install them where you want them. You must be able to access the back of a flat metal panel (the floor, in your case). Have you crawled under the Sub to see if that's possible in the area you want the tether anchor? (We had major issues trying to install them in my vehicle, so I want to make sure you know what you're getting into! ;) )

[t_jones]

ok, no cargo tie downs, no problem, retractors, latchplates and
buckles!

I would not have thought to twist the buckle stalk - I was under the impression that twisted belts were not as strong. Yes, my latchplate does sit at a bad angle...

OK, SkaterBabs, I misunderstood, yes I do have lap only in the center positions, we were trying to put the seats in the outer positions, I guess we could put one in the center and one on the outside.

I have crawled under the Sub, having just spent the weekend replacing the oil cooler lines and oil pan and changing the differential fluids. It would be no problem installing an anchor with sufficient backing.

I wont get the vehicle back for another week. I will check back with you guys next week, I am feeling much better now, I am understanding a few things better now.

Can I let this sit for a bit, and repost when I can try some of your suggestions?

Thank you all so much for the help, this is a great resource -

[Defrost]

I would not have thought to twist the buckle stalk - I was under the impression that twisted belts were not as strong. Yes, my latchplate does sit at a bad angle...

You're correct that twisting the belt decreases its strength, but twisting the buckle up to three full turns has been tested and approved by most vehicle manufacturers. It's acceptable because seat belts are designed to withstand considerably more force than a child in a carseat will put on them, even if the belt is twisted. You just have to follow certain rules - you can twist the buckle stalk up to three full turns; the seat belt itself can be flipped once to turn the latchplate upside-down.

Can I let this sit for a bit, and repost when I can try some of your suggestions?

Thank you all so much for the help, this is a great resource -

Absolutely - let us know how it goes! We love helping parents keep their kids safe. :thumbsup: