I took the 'short course' class today

[leighi123]

And I already knew pretty much everything that they taught, mostly from spending too much time here. :) (the instructor said more than once that I could teach the class - lol)

The instructors were good except they arent much for HWH at all and they only use part of the 5step test for going out of boosters. :confused:

There were only 3 people in the class, and the other 2 people HAD to be there, so they thought I was cool for requesting to take the class 'just because' (was a private class) - I even got a price discount because of that! The other girl in the class has 3 kids, aged 4, 5 and 6 - the younger 2 in LBB's and the oldest in a lap only belt in the middle. :thumbsdown:

When installing infant seats, they said they always use a whole noodle (cut into 5 peices, all stacked up) and a peice of shelf liner. I thought you could use less peices of noodle if it fit that way and I dont see why you need that many noodles and shelf liner for every car.

And they said no noodles at all for convertable seats - so what do you do if you cant get the angle right?

Anyway tomorow we have the checkpoint at babies R us - so that will be fun in the heat! I really want to take the full course, which is next month, but I dont know if I will have the $$$ - I hope so though!


Oh and OT - Why cant I see the 'community member chat' forum anymore - did it disappar or is it me?

[Jeanum]

Admin recently changed the access requirements for Community Member Coffee Break - here's Admin's announcement thread with the details: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=45000

The info. presented about the partial 5-step test, pool noodles, and shelf liner is troublesome and seems to be straying from the curriculum from when I took the certification course last year. It's called a 5-step test for a reason, KWIM? All 5 of the steps really need to be met to determine a child's readiness for using the adult-sized seatbelt alone. Up to 3 pool noodles can be used in the vehicle seat bight with an infant seat base or RF convertible to increase the RF recline angle (no more than 45 degrees, though), so long as the seat manufacturer doesn't state otherwise. Shelf liner is usually discouraged altogether rather than encouraged with every infant seat installation.

Is the short course a pre-requisite for taking the full certification class in your area? I hope you're able to take the full course and become certified. :)

[thepeach80]

Holy crap! 5 pool noodles?! I don't use 3 all that often, what do they do w/ 5? Yeah, it's pretty much old practice to use shelf liner now, but I know the next city/state over uses it all the time. :(

[TechnoGranola]

Wow, if I ever needed 5 pool noodles to get an infant seat to the proper recline in my vehicle, I'd get a new infant seat that fit the vehicle better!

[Gypsy]

Well, you can use as many noodles as you need to to get proper recline - 5 is rarely needed, but I could see using 5 of the cheap dollar store noodles to get a good newborn recline.

Shelf liner isn't recommended anymore - I'd use it if I had no other choice, but I'd make sure it was a rock solid install with it and not merely acceptable.

A lot of infant seats don't allow the use of pool noodles.

Most convertibles NEED them to get a good newborn recline - or even a proper recline for a toddler.

[TechnoGranola]

Well, you can use as many noodles as you need to to get proper recline - 5 is rarely needed, but I could see using 5 of the cheap dollar store noodles to get a good newborn recline.
<snip>

Most convertibles NEED them to get a good newborn recline - or even a proper recline for a toddler.Wow, hearing that makes me love the SS even more! The adjustable base is awesome and we've never needed even one noodle in any of 3 different vehicles. We could make the recline more upright as she got older, and now that we're needing a convertible, it can be installed more upright at her age, so no noodles are needed for a Marathon either. Just a personal thing for me, that I prefer not to have to add anything to my install.

[Gypsy]

Wow, hearing that makes me love the SS even more! The adjustable base is awesome and we've never needed even one noodle in any of 3 different vehicles. We could make the recline more upright as she got older, and now that we're needing a convertible, it can be installed more upright at her age, so no noodles are needed for a Marathon either. Just a personal thing for me, that I prefer not to have to add anything to my install.

I agree.

I use as little "fixes" as possible when installing seats.

However, I did a seat check last week, mom had her baby and 2YO rear facing, both needed 3 noodles - I used thick noodles for the baby and she was about 50 degrees reclined, and used thin noodles for the toddler and he was about 60 degrees reclined - the vehicle also needed locking clips to prevent the massive tilting that the seats came in with.

Many vehicles have very deep tilted seats.

I LOVE the SS1, I do think it's the easiest infant seat to install!

[crunchierthanthou]

I agree.

I use as little "fixes" as possible when installing seats.

However, I did a seat check last week, mom had her baby and 2YO rear facing, both needed 3 noodles - I used thick noodles for the baby and she was about 50 degrees reclined, and used thin noodles for the toddler and he was about 60 degrees reclined - the vehicle also needed locking clips to prevent the massive tilting that the seats came in with.

Many vehicles have very deep tilted seats.

I LOVE the SS1, I do think it's the easiest infant seat to install!

do you mean 40 and 30 degrees reclined (the oppposites of 50 and 60)? rf seats should be reclined between 30 and 45 degrees. Toddlers can be more upright and small infants need the full 45 degrees, though they should never be reclined more than that. You measure from vertical.

[Gypsy]

do you mean 40 and 30 degrees reclined (the oppposites of 50 and 60)? rf seats should be reclined between 30 and 45 degrees. Toddlers can be more upright and small infants need the full 45 degrees, though they should never be reclined more than that.

Yes, sorry. I have a hard time adjusting my thinking to vertical when I was raised from horizontal :) and it all gets jumbled up when I type it in relation to carseats :) The baby was more upright than a newborn, and the toddler more upright than the baby :)

[crunchierthanthou]

I thought so. :) I agree that it's backward. I don't look at something and think "oh, that's a 30 degree angle from vertical." no, it's a 60 degree angle. 0 is horizontal and 90 is straight up. Whoever came up with that measuring convention clearly forgot his 10th grade geometry. or even 4th grade angles. It's even more confusing when people say that you need to measure in reference to level ground. Because then wouldn't that be from horizontal?

[Gypsy]

I thought so. :) I agree that it's backward. I don't look at something and think "oh, that's a 30 degree angle from vertical." no, it's a 60 degree angle. 0 is horizontal and 90 is straight up. Whoever came up with that measuring convention clearly forgot his 10th grade geometry. or even 4th grade angles. It's even more confusing when people say that you need to measure in reference to level ground. Because then wouldn't that be from horizontal?

OMG! EXACTLY!

[leighi123]

So it went well today - for the most part.
It was sooo hot out. I did most of the installs, just with someone supervising/helping out/checking and signing off on whatever I did. We had lots of people show up as well right up until we had to take things down.

Levi even got a new carseat for Grammy's car - I need to change my siggy now because no more snugride! :( (We now have an evenflow something that rf to 35, ff to 50 for her car - ugly but an easy install)

I was sad b/c when they give out free carseats, if the kid is over 1, they get a combination ff only/booster seat, even if they are tiny tiny. :(

But I did install a brand new britax marathon rearfacing for a guy (who had his infant seat rock solid from a previous carseat check, that his daughter was getting to tall for). His baby was 11 months and 25lbs, but he said he would keep her rearfacing until he had to turn her ff - and when that time came he would bring the seat to us to switch it! :thumbsup:

The only infant seat I installed was a graco one, I put one base in each car, and they told me I HAD to use a bunch of noodles eventhough I probably could have gotten it in just fine without in the car, and with just a little noodle in the truck. - At least we got them to take the car seat protectors out, and the big plastic toy off the handle (they said the carseat guy at babies R us said they were supposed to have the seat protectors in :eek: )


So I am taking the full class next month, I just have to get the $$$ together to do it - the short course wasnt required but 'highly reccomended' b/c they say people who havent taken it get confused in the full class.

Overall it was fun and I cant wait to do it again next month! :p

[leighi123]

oh and how do you get reputation points? I have pently of posts and have been here long enough but no points that I can see...

[An Aurora]

Did they not tell you to have the parents install? Am I understanding correctly that this was a short (non-certificate) class but they are having you check car seats? (ETA: NM, I read your last post and see that it's a pre-CPST class).

Slightly OT, but your DS looks a little close to the top of his TF to me, unless of course it's the angle ;)

[snowbird25ca]

Congrats on taking the class. :)

I hope that you get better instructors for your full class. They should not be making you put noodles under an infant base that will install at the right angle using the built in adjustment. The fewer fixes the better. And we have also been taught a maximum of 3 noodles when installing a seat - even dollar store noodles I can't imagine using 5 of even to get a newborn recline. With infant seats a noodle is really rarely needed. The older Evenflo port-a-bout seats often needed them, but I can't think of any newer infant seats that I've seen at checks that have needed a noodle regardless of the angle of the vehicle seat. :confused: In most cases if the built in recline foot isn't quite enough, changing the direction of pressure being put on the base during installation is all it takes to get a seat reclined enough for a newborn.

Convertible seats it's quite common to need a noodle or rolled towel. But not for an infant seat installed with a base. At least not based on my experience.


Slightly OT, but your DS looks a little close to the top of his TF to me, unless of course it's the angle ;)

The True Fit has a line drawn on the cover that marks the 1" point. The manual allows use without the headrest until the head reaches the line (or until baby is 22lbs,) so based on the picture anyways he's still fine in the seat and is probably around 1" or maybe more away from the line still. :thumbsup:

eta: The message that was linked earlier states how automatic access is given, but also describes how to apply for access when you had it previously. Follow the instructions for making the request and you'll be approved since you had access before and qualify to be grandfathered in without meeting the new requirements.

[leighi123]

In the pic he looks closte to the top because of the hat! (and probly the angle of the pic...)
I need to take a better pic soon....

His head is actually just below the entire white lable, so he has around 3" before he is too tall!


They didnt have parents installing seats at all - they said if parents needed an adjustment, they could go to the next check, and they also do a lot of private checks, so parents were given that info as well. I dunno IMO it was run a little funny, but I do think it helped a lot of people out.

[An Aurora]

Thanks for clarifying! Honestly I'm pretty surprised that they would have you (by "you" I mean the students in the class) installing seats. :confused:

[thepeach80]

Thanks for clarifying! Honestly I'm pretty surprised that they would have you (by "you" I mean the students in the class) installing seats. :confused:

That is a huge no no and is putting them and you at risk for liability issues. As a tech, Safe Kids covers me if something were to happen and someone tried to come after me, you are not covered and I'm shocked you were even allowed to touch anyone's seat! If I were you, I wouldn't do it again till you're certified.

[leighi123]

Their insurance covers me, even without taking the full course - and 2 people check and sign off on each seat once Im done (a tech and senior tech) They also have to watch me the whole time. The parents sign something before we get even close to their car, which means that if we break anything in there car, or if the carseat flies out the window as they pull away, too bad for them. We also have the parents sign something that shows they approve of the install. So all the liability is on the parents regardless of what we do with the seats/car.

[Connor's Mom]

Their insurance covers me, even without taking the full course - and 2 people check and sign off on each seat once Im done (a tech and senior tech) They also have to watch me the whole time. The parents sign something before we get even close to their car, which means that if we break anything in there car, or if the carseat flies out the window as they pull away, too bad for them. We also have the parents sign something that shows they approve of the install. So all the liability is on the parents regardless of what we do with the seats/car.


:eek:
Who in the heck would sign something like that and then let a bunch a people that sat in a half day class install their seat? :eek:

[An Aurora]

:eek:
Who in the heck would sign something like that and then let a bunch a people that sat in a half day class install their seat? :eek:

Exactly!

[littleangelfire]

Well - at risk of being combative :fencing: lol a half day class is certainly more than any of those parents had. :) So that would be a good reason for why they'd sign off on it, aside from the fact they don't know how long a class anybody takes, and would assume they knew what they were doing since they ran a check. And, they had techs checking on them and signing off on things so it sounds perfectly safe to me. Well...except the whole gung-ho noodle thing and doing everything FOR the parents instead of showing them how. But at least they left seats more safely installed.

[scatterbunny]

After my short course (which was 8 hours) we held a clinic, too, with "graduates" of the short course teaching the parents, with senior techs/instructors watching. It was preparation for the full course, and educating solo.

[leighi123]

Yeah I was a bit suprised that they let me do everything - but there was an actual tech right there in the car with me the whole time watching everything, so it seemed fine. I did get a lot of practice, and every carseat left rock solid.

People had AWFUL setups so what we did was deffinatly an improvment

[keri1292]

People had AWFUL setups so what we did was deffinatly an improvment

Until a curious kid unbuckles the seat in the parking lot at the mall and they have to attempt to get it back in. :(

[An Aurora]

Until a curious kid unbuckles the seat in the parking lot at the mall and they have to attempt to get it back in. :(

Yep. Installing car seats for people is really doing them a disservice. You need to teach them to do it. Otherwise when little Johnny pukes all over the seat and they have to take it out, they will have no idea how to put it back in and you'll end up with the awful setup again. :(

[leighi123]

I know - I dont get why we didnt have parents at least try it out - we did explain everything to them, how to check if it was in right, how to adjust everything ect... but we never had them actually do it themself.

[An Aurora]

You'll have to let us know how your class goes, and if they have parents install for the class check. It's part of the curriculum, so hopefully they will.

[cpsaddict]

When I took the 8 hr class, I installed seats at the 8 hr class. Well, technically, I installed it first to show them and then uninstalled it and watched the parent do it again. Then a senior checker came over and signed off on the installation. In Oregon, the 8hr is a prereq for taking the full course. After our 8 hour class, we were called "installers".

[murphydog77]

After my short course (which was 8 hours) we held a clinic, too, with "graduates" of the short course teaching the parents, with senior techs/instructors watching. It was preparation for the full course, and educating solo.

:thumbsup: This is practically the only way we can run our checkup events here. We train nursing students in the 8-hour class as they do their rotation in peds and they are required to attend 2 checkup events. It teaches them the importance of car seats and they can pass that knowledge onto parents and caregivers as they go into practice themselves. They are supervised closely at events by senior checkers and instructors for both parental education and installation. Obviously some are better than others, but parents always leave satisfied and children safe. Our SK coalition has the 2nd highest volume of seat checks in the country and we're needed in the community even more than we can get out now. If we didn't have our nursing students helping, we'd have to shut down to our basic 2 events per month because our techs just don't volunteer on a regular basis.

I took the 8-hour class before my tech class and I totally agree that it doesn't teach much but the very basics. But it's a good way to start out.

[Connor's Mom]

I wish that we had been required to take this class when I was in nursing school!
Plus I still cringe everytime I watch the video of the nurse instructing me on the "propper" way to fit the harness when I was bringing C home from the hospital at birth. :eek:

[crunchierthanthou]

After our 8 hour class, we were called "installers".

so those people we always seem to hear about who are claiming to be carseat installers may not be so full of it afterall. ;)

It's an interesting program and I guess I can see the merit. I don't understand how it cuts down on the certified workforce needed at a check if all the installers have to be watched by techs anyway (or two, as the OP described).

[thepeach80]

Ummmm, so how this is any different than the cops and such out there that took the class and like to call themselves techs. The ones we warn people about? The obvious difference is op comes here and is planning on taking the full class, but I don't see how this helps our cause of telling people to make sure they are seeing certified techs. :confused:

[littleangelfire]

Ummmm, so how this is any different than the cops and such out there that took the class and like to call themselves techs. The ones we warn people about? The obvious difference is op comes here and is planning on taking the full class, but I don't see how this helps our cause of telling people to make sure they are seeing certified techs. :confused:

I think the difference is in the fact that there were certified techs present - the problem comes in probably when the the 'installers' then claim to be techs later, however, the OP isn't the one likely to damage, lol, its those other 2 people who didn't want to be in the class in the first place, who will likely run around touting their new importance (perhaps) and then not quite do things right b/c they don't have the additional experience of being here on the forums and may have missed things in the class simply b/c they really weren't interested.

[Connor's Mom]

I think the difference is in the fact that there were certified techs present - the problem comes in probably when the the 'installers' then claim to be techs later, however, the OP isn't the one likely to damage, lol, its those other 2 people who didn't want to be in the class in the first place, who will likely run around touting their new importance (perhaps) and then not quite do things right b/c they don't have the additional experience of being here on the forums and may have missed things in the class simply b/c they really weren't interested.


Sounds alot like when a Certified Nurses Aid likes to run around telling people thet they are a Nurse. :mad:
The only thing that scares me about these types of classes is that you give someone a little bit of power and then they like to stretch it as far as they can.
O', there is not much difference in being a "installer" and a CPST.
Just 4 days of training and a certification exam. :rolleyes:

[thepeach80]

Sounds alot like when a Certified Nurses Aid likes to run around telling people thet they are a Nurse.

So when I'm done w/ my class in August I can tell people I'm a nurse? ;)