Please Help! HWH in 2001 Subaru Forester (PIC HEAVY)

[a_js]

A bit of background--
I have tried numerous convertible seats in this car; the only ones that worked worth anything have been Britax seats. Now it is time for us to go to a HWH seat as DS has about 1/2" to 3/4" left in the Marathon. I searched archives here and found a lot of issues with Forester installs and also the useful piece of information that the headrest has to come off to use a top tether. I called the Subaru dealer and asked if I could put it back on after the tether was attached. They said yes *if* the tether strap has a clear path to the anchor & isn't pressing on the headrest. I have now tried 3 HWH seats and am not really happy with any of the installs. I have included a ton of pictures. I really hope you guys can help, please, because I spent 2 hours in the sun in my driveway, my neighbors think I am insane, and I am so frustrated I'm about to trade the car in. Not kidding. I'm no CPST, but I'm not a novice either--I've installed many seats, I'm good at and good about reading manuals, and I do put my knee in the seat to tighten the belt.

So.

First: Britax Marathon, installed, please pardon the cover--it expires in November and the elastic is shot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3737.jpg
Headrest removed because it works better that way.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3738.jpg
This install is good, about 1/2" of movement at the belt path if you really shove. You can see here the imprint on the seat--that is how little it will move and I really shoved it hard.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3758.jpg

Second: Safeguard Child Seat, with headrest installed.
Just sitting on the seat
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3742.jpg
Installed, belt
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3741.jpg
From above, the seat after installation.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3743.jpg
From above, the seat after installation and after I pushed on it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3744.jpg
A full view of what the seat looked like after I pushed on it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3745.jpg
The same thing happened installing it without the headrest, only worse. Here are two pics of how much the top moved when I didn't use the headrest (Which is sitting on the trunk cover--don't worry, I don't leave it there!)
Before a push
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3749.jpg
After a push
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3750.jpg

[a_js]

Part two:


Third: Britax Frontier.
Total disaster.
Here's what happens with short belt path:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3764.jpg
So you can't tighten the belt.

Here's what happens with long belt path: it's not long enough.
'nuff said..

Fourth: Graco Nautilus, borrowed from dh's car.
See how it sits so nicely in his car:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3770.jpg
This install is *not* the bee's knees or anything, it needs to have a tether retrofitted and there is some movement on the bottom edge (farthest from the seat bight), but at the belt path there is well under 1" of movement.
His car is a 1999 Mazda, btw.
In the Subaru, sitting on the seat not installed:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3776.jpg
After install
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3777.jpg
Note the weird shape of the seat of the car.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3778.jpg
Top of seat, w/headrest installed, before I gave it a push to see if I could dislodge it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3780.jpg
Top of seat after the push
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3782.jpg
Side view top of seat before push (no headrest in the car)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3801.jpg
Side view top of seat after push (no headrest in the car)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3789.jpg
Seat before I gave it a push to see if I could dislodge it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3783.jpg
Seat after the push
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3784.jpg
Buckle has to be twisted 3 times :mad:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3797.jpg
Weird picture, if you can make it out it shows the weird shape of the seat of the car. I had to take this through the window--sorry
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/anne_josh/IMG_3787.jpg

:confused: Any suggestions are welcome. I was going to try a Regent, but I can't imagine it'll fit if the Frontier doesn't.

If you got through all that, THANK YOU. :love:

[a_js]

Oh, and I just noticed the floor of my car is disgusting :o sorry.. ignore that too..

[BW1426]

I'm curious why you aren't using LATCH. Subaru has 60 pound LATCH limits. Do all of the above seats require you to stop using LATCH at 48 lbs? (I'm thinking they might, but not sure).

[a_js]

There is no LATCH in a model year 2001 forester :(

[crunchierthanthou]

BW, the Forester didn't have LATCH until the 2003 MY.

OP, I was able to get an acceptable install with the Frontier in my 2001 Outback with the seatbelt. The latchplate had to be partially inside the beltpath.

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=45940

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z157/crunchierthanthou/frontier/0515081815.jpg

Did you try removing the headrest completely in the Mazda? It looks like it might be pushing the top of the Nautilus forward and causing the gap that's concerning you.

Also, be mindful of how you are checking for movement. An acceptable install is one that moves less than 1" in any direction at the beltpath. You just need to grasp with one hand and tug- no extreme force necessary.

[a_js]

I'm not pushing with any extreme force, unfortunately. I did try all 3 seats with and without the headrest, similar results. I did think about putting the latch plate inside the belt path, but unfortunately it does not fit!

ETA: Unless I'm very much mistaken the seatbelts in the Outback are in the seat bight. In the forester they are forward of it.

[An Aurora]

Also, be mindful of how you are checking for movement. An acceptable install is one that moves less than 1" in any direction at the beltpath. You just need to grasp with one hand and tug- no extreme force necessary.

Yes, no shoving necessary. ;)

[a_js]

I did shove on the Marathon just to show how little it moves even with a good hard shove, but I did not on the HWH seats--just pushed a bit, not forcefully. ;)

[crunchierthanthou]

I'm not pushing with any extreme force, unfortunately. I did try all 3 seats with and without the headrest, similar results. I did think about putting the latch plate inside the belt path, but unfortunately it does not fit!

ETA: Unless I'm very much mistaken the seatbelts in the Outback are in the seat bight. In the forester they are forward of it.

you may be correct that they are positioned slightly differently, but I am almost certain the are the same size. How many twists are in the buckle stalk? I've found that more than two full twists causes the latchplate to lie at an odd angle and makes it difficult to tighten the belt (the webbing bunches in the latchplate).

Did you reach through the slots in the front of the Frontier cover and pull the belt from inside the beltpath? I found that made quite a difference with being able to pull at the correct angle.

[Defrost]

A couple more things to try with forward-of-the-bight seat belts -

Buckle, tighten, then unbuckle, tighten the seat belt a bit more, then re-buckle. This is possible to do alone but easier with two people - one to keep the seat compressed and one to buckle-tighten-rebuckle.

Line the belt path up with the buckle when you start out. Then compress the carseat straight down, don't push it back at all. Looking at your picture of the Nautilus on the seat before the install, the belt path is behind the line of the seat belt - can you see what I mean? Pull it forward a bit - you'll end up with a small gap between the carseat and the vehicle seat near the bight. Lemme see if I have a pic...

Yeah, here's a GN in the 3rd row of our Mazda5. See the gap down behind the buckle?
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i301/alunatic_photos/Nautilus/IMG_2014.jpg

I'm curious about the headrests - do they really need to be re-added after the install? I leave mine off when they get in the way.

[4boysmom]

Something else to consider re:nautilus. It has 3 recline positions (oblivious not meant for rearfacing so there are 3 possible acceptable positions it can be in while forward facing). You may have to figet to see if you need a different recline position. In our 2000 quest I got best results fully upright.

[a_js]

Thank you so much for all your replies! :love: I do appreciate y'all taking the time. I know it was long.

I tried all 3 seats in the middle. Only the Nautilus worked. But it *did* work! The installation is acceptable, not as good as I like, but it'll work. I took the headrest off (because of the tether and because it was pushing the top of the seat forward) and had the seat fully upright. If it is reclined at all the tether will pull it back even more and also it'll slide forward so the edge hangs off the seat of the car.

I so wanted the Frontier to work (couldn't tighten the belt well despite all the great suggestions), but I guess I can't be overly devastated over a $150 seat working and a $280 one not.. heh..

The only thing is that my rear window visibility is way down. Oh, well..

Thanks again :D

[Defrost]

I tried all 3 seats in the middle. Only the Nautilus worked. But it *did* work! The installation is acceptable, not as good as I like, but it'll work. I took the headrest off (because of the tether and because it was pushing the top of the seat forward) and had the seat fully upright. If it is reclined at all the tether will pull it back even more and also it'll slide forward so the edge hangs off the seat of the car.


That's great that the Nautilus works! :thumbsup:

I'm wondering about the tether, though. The tether shouldn't interfere with the install at all, even with the anchors on the ceiling of the vehicle. Perhaps you're over-tightening it? Keep in mind that the tether supplements the regular install. It doesn't have to be anywhere near as tight as the seatbelt or LATCH. Just enough to take up the slack.

[a_js]

I see what you mean! I'm not pulling on the tether like the seatbelt, no. But it probably doesn't NEED to be as tight as it is.

I took the headrest off the seat of the car because it interfered with the path of the tether anchor to the ceiling, and frankly it's a little scary--with the headrest off, the top of the back seat is only about shoulder height for DS when he sits in the carseat. Makes me nervous to have nothing behind his head but the shell of the carseat, however, until we get a new car (sooner rather than later, I hope ) it'll have to work.

[crunchierthanthou]

I took the headrest off the seat of the car because it interfered with the path of the tether anchor to the ceiling, and frankly it's a little scary--with the headrest off, the top of the back seat is only about shoulder height for DS when he sits in the carseat. Makes me nervous to have nothing behind his head but the shell of the carseat, however, until we get a new car (sooner rather than later, I hope ) it'll have to work.

You don't need to worry. Really. Unless the carseat manual says that it needs support from the vehicle seatback, it has been reinforced to provide it. The only harnessed seat that currently requires support is the Cosco Apex. Your Nautilus can be used in vehicles without headrests. It will provide all the support his head needs.

[a_js]

Thanks for that. :thumbsup: I'm really not as paranoid as I sound! I just watched the carseat safety videos on YouTube and it's making me very aware, which I guess is a good thing.