Radian Safestop

[BW1426]

Here we go again, Sunshine Kids is beating around the bush, not giving me an answer.

I have transport more than one child in the same Radian (all at the same harness height, but between 35 and 45 pounds). Because of the time frame of they ride in the seat it is really not possible for me to reinstall the seat everytime and put on or take off the safestop. I asked Russ if I should keep it on or take it off at all times and he's not giving me an answer. I read on here that SK told her she could keep it on, but I wanted the answer for myself. I just wish they could keep track of what they tell everyone. Grr.

So, what do you all think?

[crunchierthanthou]

Ideally, you should follow you manual and adjust it for whichever sized child is riding in it at the time.

If that's really not an option, read this transcript from the chat with SSK's Director of Engineering (heck, read it anyway ;)).-

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=40794


the safestop was covered several times. these points are particularly pertinent to your dilemma-

skipspin -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: In regards to the Radian:How exact does the weight for using/removing the safestop need to be? If a child is hovering around 39lbs, is it better to remove it, or to wait until the child is hovering closer to 41lbs?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: If the parent is not sure of the child's exact weight, it is better to install with Safe Stop.

_____

bensmom -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Back to the Safe Stop - I have one of the original Radians, from before the Safestop was included. Do I need to get one for my 38 pound son?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Yes please call our office and we will send you one. Your seat should be registered

bensmom -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Also, follow up on that. I believe some people have SafeStops with instructions to 48 pounds. Is the 48 incorrect.

wendytthomas -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: I think we also saw 35 pounds listed for the Safe Stop as well, though I can't remember where right now. [this was a typo in the manual when they changed it to reflect the new 35 lb rf limit]

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: The Safe Stop may be used to 48 lbs

_____

wendytthomas -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: What is the minimum weight that the Safe Stop may be removed? 40 pounds? But when in doubt leave it on with a maximum of 48 pounds?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Forward facing Safe Stop should be used to 40 lbs. Our 1st introduction of this device allowed use to 48 lbs. There are no performance issues with this 8 lbs difference. Please follow the instructions associated with the particular Radian you own


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Judi -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Are there benifits to using the safestop to 48 lbs?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: SafeStop should be used in accordance with our instructions. It reduces combined neck loading - a number not required by NHTSA, ECE or any other regulatory body.




basically, the current weight limit for the safestop is 40 lbs, but it did go to 48 when it first came out. There is no performance issue with using it to 48 lbs, but you should be following the instructions for the one you own.

[BW1426]

I guess I could reinstall it everytime, but it is really timely to get a good install in my car so I'm either leaving the safestop in all the time or not having a great install. I guess what I'm asking is, what is the greater of the two evils?

Ugh. In the grand scheme of things I keep reminding myself that at least these preschoolers are in properly adjusted 5 point harnesses in my car (none of them are in their parent's car), but I just wish it was easier to perfectly follow the manual :(


Thank you, crunchierthanthou for pointing me to that chat transcript :thumbsup:

[joolsplus3]

My Safestop says 48 pounds and my manual doesn't say anything about it... if my kid still fits past 40 pounds, I'd probably use it up to that weight (top tethered, of course!!!!)
:2cents:

[daycaremom2002]

There is one other choice. The Radian performs very well without the top tether. The Safestop is only used with the top tether. If you have a tether anchor in the center position, then I would put the Radian there and do NOT use the safestop at all. When you put in the smaller child, you simply undo the tether and safely secure it. Then all you have to do is re-attach the tether for the older child.

This is, of course, a choice only you can make. They are safer with the tether. The Radian had excellent scores without the tether. You are keeping the kids safer in a 5pt harness.

[crunchierthanthou]

There is one other choice. The Radian performs very well without the top tether. The Safestop is only used with the top tether. If you have a tether anchor in the center position, then I would put the Radian there. When you put in the smaller child, you simply undo the tether and safely secure it. Then all you have to do is re-attach the tether for the older child.

This is, of course, a choice only you can make. They are safer with the tether. The Radian had excellent scores without the tether. You are keeping the kids safer in a 5pt harness.

Are you familiar with the Radian? The safestop goes on the harness and performs similar to the energy absorbing tether on Britax convertibles. It increases the ride down time (and thus decreases neck strain on smaller children). You absolutely cannot leave the safestop on when the Radian is not tethered because it may result in excess head excursion.

here's a quick rundown of when not to use the safestop-

rear facing? no safestop

over 40 lbs? no safestop (according to the most recent version of the manual, but we know that hasn't always been the case)

not tethered? no safestop

[BW1426]

I think my "parental decision" is to leave it on. I took it off to be on the safe side because the little girl that rides in it the most is about 41 pounds. I'll leave it on through the summer when the seat sharing happens the most, then I'll take it off. Thanks for the help!

[crunchierthanthou]

I think my "parental decision" is to leave it on. I took it off to be on the safe side because the little girl that rides in it the most is about 41 pounds. I'll leave it on through the summer when the seat sharing happens the most, then I'll take it off. Thanks for the help!

I think the end of my first post should have had a :whistle:, and I think that would be appropriate after some of Dave's comments as well. Of course, follow your manual, but he's pretty clear that you're better off leaving it on if in doubt about the child's weight and that it's not going to cause any issues if you're in that 40-48 lb range.

[daycaremom2002]

Are you familiar with the Radian? The safestop goes on the harness and performs similar to the energy absorbing tether on Britax convertibles. It increases the ride down time (and thus decreases neck strain on smaller children). You absolutely cannot leave the safestop on when the Radian is not tethered because it may result in excess head excursion.

here's a quick rundown of when not to use the safestop-

rear facing? no safestop

over 40 lbs? no safestop (according to the most recent version of the manual, but we know that hasn't always been the case)

not tethered? no safestop

Sorry. I forgot to put to leave it off. You tether it with the older child without the safe stop. You untether it with the smaller child without the safestop. I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. Sorry.

[BW1426]

I'm sorry if I'm misreading this, but I'm terribly confused. Isn't it always better to have a tethered seat. What would be better about not tethering a smaller child in the seat without the safestop?

[daycaremom2002]

I'm sorry if I'm misreading this, but I'm terribly confused. Isn't it always better to have a tethered seat. What would be better about not tethering a smaller child in the seat without the safestop?

It is better to tether the seat. This reduces how far a child moves forward in a crash. This however, increases the load on their neck. That is what the safe stop is for. It allows more forward movement of a child in a tethered seat to help reduce the head load on a smaller child. An older child does not need the extra movement. This is why you can use the seat without the safestop for the larger child.

If you are using the seat with the smaller child without the safestop, then you do not tether it so that there isn't too much load on the neck. It still passes head excursion tests without the tether.

I talked to Russ about this last year when I was considering using the Radian for my daycare. He said that it was fine to leave the safestop off the seat as long as I was not using the tether for kids under 40 pounds. The Radian had excellent head excursion results without the tether.

[BW1426]

Hmmm. I guess I'm torn on this. The radian is the only seat with something like the safestop. Why doesn't this hold true with all other seats (untethered until 48 pounds, tethered afterwards). Everything I read is "tether, tether, tether." I'm just perplexed by this concept, though I do understand the idea of the seat moving with the body if it's not tethered.

[daycaremom2002]

It may be partly the way that the Radian is made. They did the testing and whatever the result showed, they determined that the safestop was needed for smaller kids. They felt the need to reduce the neck load. They also felt that the neck load was enough, that without the safestop in place for smaller kids, then they say not to tether it. In older vehicles without top tether anchors, the only option would be to use this seat without the safestop since its use requires a top tether. Those kids would still be safely restrained though.

US seats are required to have a top tether available for forward facing seats. Top tether use isn't required by law yet in the US though. If I remember correctly, seat manufacturers must pass the head excursion tests without the tether. So unless a seat requires a top tether(like the Regent after 50 pounds) then it should have passed the minimum requirements. The Radian is supposed to have passed with much better than the minimum requirements. I will look and see if I can find that information.

[skiersnowboarder3]

With my radians, I am able to put the safestop on and take it off without uninstalling the seat. It is difficult and somewhat time consuming but I'm like you, once I get that seat in good, I don't want to move it! I just loosen the harness the whole way, pull the harness out from one side on the back, unhook the harness being very careful not to switch what side each strap is on, then hook the safestop on and SLOWLY pull the harness adjuster strap while having one hand between the carseat and the vehicle seat to be sure that I really did keep the straps from twisting.

I don't recommend this for everyone and I wouldn't call it the easy way out. I would also recommend practicing this at a time when you have time to uninstall the seat afterwards to double check.

[BW1426]

:thumbsup:aha. I didn't think of this. I may just try this, not today though...(I've already surpassed my quota for ripping off nails installing carseats this week) Thanks for the tip. You've got me curious if I can make that work :)

[RubysGirl]

I don't recommend pulling the harness with the seat installed... I did this to switch chest clips a couple weeks ago and just discovered the other day that it was tangled in the path... who knows what would have happened in an accident... (I could tighten the harness, but not loosen it? it was weird, but when I took the seat out and shook it the harness loosened up imediately, it was tangled in the path.)

[crunchierthanthou]

Sorry. I forgot to put to leave it off. You tether it with the older child without the safe stop. You untether it with the smaller child without the safestop. I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. Sorry.

ah, I see. That was actually my misunderstanding. :o I was reading that you were saying to use it tethered with the safestop for the smaller child and then to just undo the tether for the larger child. Your suggestion is the total opposite and is actually a pretty good idea. Skip the safestop altogether, tether for the heavier child and store it for the lighter one. It's more important to have heavier children tethered anyway (extrapolating from Britax requirements). Not a bad idea if adding and removing the safestop for each child isn't an option. At least they are at the same harness height so there's not that adjustment going on (I'm assuming).

[daycaremom2002]

ah, I see. That was actually my misunderstanding. :o I was reading that you were saying to use it tethered with the safestop for the smaller child and then to just undo the tether for the larger child. Your suggestion is the total opposite and is actually a pretty good idea. Skip the safestop altogether, tether for the heavier child and store it for the lighter one. It's more important to have heavier children tethered anyway (extrapolating from Britax requirements). Not a bad idea if adding and removing the safestop for each child isn't an option. At least they are at the same harness height so there's not that adjustment going on (I'm assuming).

As long as I am not confusing anyone, I am good. I'm not always able to type what I am trying to say. I talk with my hands normally and it is very hard to do that online..:scratcheshead: I tend to write more than necessary to try to convey what I am trying to say, and in that process, completely confuse everyone!! :rolleyes:

[joolsplus3]

It is better to tether the seat. This reduces how far a child moves forward in a crash. This however, increases the load on their neck.


Well...sort of, but no. A seat should always be top tethered because it reduces neck loads:

In the 2007 LATCH manual, page 43 it says this.
"Can a tether cause neck injury?
After many years of experience in Australia, Canada, and, now, the US,
there have been no evidence of neck injury related to the use of a
tether. In fact, a Canadian study(1) showed that all measurements
arelating to potential neck injury were lower with a tether than without
it. This is because the tether secures the CR--and the child--more
tightly to the vehicle, allowing the child's body to "ride down" the
crash with the vehicle as it crushes and absorbs crash energy. Without
a tether, there may be more potential of higher forces on the neck when
the CR suddenly stops moving forward."

I see the theory behind your recommendation, but I'd rather see no safestop and ALL children top tethered :)