RF and FF belt paths... question about installing a carseat FF

[AlbertanMom]

We just bought a Mazda 5, and have two Sunshine Kids Radians to install. Both the car and seats are new to us (all our old stuff was written off in an accident) so I have a question about installing the seats.

As I was installing the seats today, following the FF directions, I simply could not understand why you thread the belt through the back of the carseat. I realized that I had my old Alpha Omega's installed through the wrong belt path... I had them installed through the RF path while FF (through the seat instead of the back, but with a tether), and holy, it feels SO much more secure than threading it through the FF slot. I installed the Radian and it was easy to do, had virtually no movement side to side or front to back, but the base of the seat moves up and down if I move it... whereas it doesn't if I thread it through the RF path on the bottom of the seat. It's completely snug side to side, doesn't move even a 1/2", but that slippery bottom concerns me.

So, question is, is it really so wrong to install a FF carseat by threading the belt through the RF slot, if it makes for a more snug and secure fit?

Thanks.

[snowbird25ca]

Using the rf'ing belt path for a ff'ing installation is actually quite a common mistake. (vice versa is also true. ;))

To answer your question, no, you cannot use the rf'ing belt path with a ff'ing installation. It's against the instructions, and won't restrain the seat properly in a collision.

Most collisions are frontal or side impact, and there is almost always a degree of frontal impact involved. In a frontal impact, all objects in the vehicle move forward. The danger might not be AS high with a top tethered seat, but imagine if the belt path is at the front of the seat and the top is rotating forward, how far forward it's going to go. Regardless of how tight it felt beforehand, the top of the seat would go way forward, and the seat could potentially go completely forward over itself and end up upside down.

One of the standards ff'ing seats have to meet - perhaps the biggest standard, is head excursion. Head excursion is the outermost point that the forehead meets, measured from the back of the vehicle seat during a crash test. The limit is designed to reduce the risk of children impacting the vehicle interior, and/or other occupants of the vehicle. Obviously, if the seat is rotating forward over top of the rf'ing belt path, the child is at huge risk of hitting his/her head on something.

As for checking for your current install and if it's in properly - if you have less than 1" of movement side to side or front to back when you push & pull (with one hand) at the belt path, then you have a good install. Once you have that, you attach and tighten the top tether. (I'm assuming you're in Canada given that you used Alberta mom as your name.)

How much do your kids weigh?

Depending on their weight, you have the option of installing the carseats with the UAS anchors and top tether (LATCH,) and that may give you a tighter install.

Depending on where you are in AB, there are some techs here. I'm in Edmonton, and there's another member who is in the Calgary area. Feel free to post back if you have more questions when you go to reinstall using the ff'ing belt path. :thumbsup:

[AlbertanMom]

Thanks... that was the most detailed explanation I've ever read and it makes complete sense. I really appreciate it.

My 3 year old is 35 lbs, and my 18 month old is about 25 lbs. Both are FF. I'm actually in St. Albert... they have carseat clinics once a month here, I believe, so I'll be sure to make the next one. Is there anywhere I can go in the meantime, though? I hate driving around with uninspected seats.

The scary thing is, I had my Alpha Omegas checked when I installed them and they were given the ok. Through the RF slot. Yoikes.

One question I have is... would it be a good idea to have some kind of non-slip material under the carseat, so that it's not so slippery on the seat itself?

I know I have LATCH on the middle seats, but I'm expecting #3 in 6 weeks and the boys will be moved to the back. I'll have to double check if there is LATCH back there. Is it really that much safer?

[snowbird25ca]

Email me through my profile and we can set up a meeting. I'm not actually sure when the next st. albert check is as I don't volunteer at those ones. I'm on the west end of the city though, right off henday, so once the snow disappears I can meet up with you if you'd like. :)

As for is latch safer, no. Whichever method (when you have a choice anyways,) gives you the best installation, is the safest method. LATCH/UAS was designed to make more seats compatible with more vehicles and the installation of them easier overall. In some instances it has worked exceptionally well, in others it hasn't. Some seats are easier to install with seatbelt and if you get a good install that way, then it's just as safe. :)

I'm also just going to throw out as an option for you to consider and/or research, that your 18mo old is still small enough that he will fit most seats rf'ing still and that will provide him with the most protection in the car. I don't have the youtube link on the computer I'm using right now, but if you do a forum search of youtube rf'ing video it should pop up easily enough because it's posted quite often. It's obviously you choice if you want to keep him ff'ing, I just wanted to let you know it's an option for him to be rf'ing still - alot of people around here don't realize that 1yr old and 20lbs is the minimum and not what's safest. :thumbsup:

Anyways, feel free to email me through my profile or PM me and we can set up a time. :)

And if you have any other questions etc. you're welcome to post them.

[Defrost]

If you get an acceptable install on the Radians FF in the 3rd row, please post and let me know. I have been completely unable to do so in my Mazda5. The FF Radian installs very well in the 2nd row, though (both with LATCH and the seat belt), but the seat belts in the 3rd row are awful.

I have managed to successfully install other HWH harness seats in the 3rd row, though, so if you're not able to do it, there are other options.

[AlbertanMom]

If you get an acceptable install on the Radians FF in the 3rd row, please post and let me know. I have been completely unable to do so in my Mazda5. The FF Radian installs very well in the 2nd row, though (both with LATCH and the seat belt), but the seat belts in the 3rd row are awful.

I have managed to successfully install other HWH harness seats in the 3rd row, though, so if you're not able to do it, there are other options.

Really? What problems do you have with the 3rd row? Mine feels really snug except for that seat... but it feels tight at the belt path.

I tried two Marathons back there but they were ENORMOUS. What other seats do you find work well?

[Defrost]

Really? What problems do you have with the 3rd row? Mine feels really snug except for that seat... but it feels tight at the belt path.

The seat belts are "forward-of-the-bight," only they're not forward on the buckle side where you usually have it, which makes for a tricky install. We could get the Radian in with no side-to-side movement at all, but as soon as we check for front-to-back movement, it slides back and forth way more than an inch. We even tried a locking clip at one point and it didn't help. :(

So basically, there's very little compression of the vehicle seat, which is in a fixed position so you can't move it back or forward or adjust the recline, and the seat belt is two or more inches forward of the bight. All of that makes for more difficult carseat installs. If only they'd put LATCH back there!

Did you install the Radian with the headrest on? That might have made a difference. I think that might be the one thing we missed - headrests usually get in the way, so I didn't think about leaving it on until we installed the Nautilus and I didn't want to leave the headrest off to go wandering around on its own, getting lost somewhere... ;)

I would love to get the Radian back there. I'll have to see if Gypsy (my tech friend) wants to give it a try again. She'll probably try to strangle me if I suggest it though. :D

I tried two Marathons back there but they were ENORMOUS. What other seats do you find work well?

Oh, the Marathons are nothing compared to the Nautilus back there! You're in Canada, though, so I don't think it's available yet? I also got the Husky back there, with the recline bar as well (same as the Regent). It actually doesn't take up any more rear-view space than the Marathon since it doesn't sit on a base. RF carseats, infant or convertibles, tend to fit fine (including the Radian.) I think that's all I've tried so far.

[snowbird25ca]

Yeah, unfortunately Nautilus isn't available here yet.

Albertanmom - I just checked the carseat schedule. Carseat clinics are no longer being done out in St. Albert by capital health. The program is being restructured, and St. Albert fire stations have been phased out from what I can tell from looking at the schedule (http://www.capitalhealth.ca/NR/rdonlyres/eumts46ea6jjv4dmj4pn2kgfk2ohxm4qefzys34zr5szfcrayp b7k2i43fxb4bos7yw2c5ipcjjrjkokrrfygha5dde/ChildSafetySeatClinic2008.pdf).

(Capital Health is the only one who does carseat clinics around here, although the police usually do one in cooperation with them in the summer. It was at the west end division last summer.)

[AlbertanMom]

The seat belts are "forward-of-the-bight," only they're not forward on the buckle side where you usually have it, which makes for a tricky install. We could get the Radian in with no side-to-side movement at all, but as soon as we check for front-to-back movement, it slides back and forth way more than an inch. We even tried a locking clip at one point and it didn't help. :(

So by this, do you mean that the seat moves front to back? I noticed no front to back movement at the top or belt path, but the seat definitely moved up/down or front/back... not sure which is the better description. Hmph. If it wasn't so FREEZING COLD AND SNOWING right now I'd go check it, but my husband is taking the car to work these days and I won't be able to check it again until Saturday. Any thoughts on a non-slip material under the carseat? I've seen these available and thought I might try it.


Did you install the Radian with the headrest on? That might have made a difference. I think that might be the one thing we missed - headrests usually get in the way, so I didn't think about leaving it on until we installed the Nautilus and I didn't want to leave the headrest off to go wandering around on its own, getting lost somewhere... ;)

I took the headrest off. It was the only way to make the carseat sit right on the seat. I found the base sat way too far forward if the headrest was on. Do you think that's a problem?

Oh, the Marathons are nothing compared to the Nautilus back there! You're in Canada, though, so I don't think it's available yet? I also got the Husky back there, with the recline bar as well (same as the Regent). It actually doesn't take up any more rear-view space than the Marathon since it doesn't sit on a base. RF carseats, infant or convertibles, tend to fit fine (including the Radian.) I think that's all I've tried so far.

Well, here's another question for you, then. I'm due with #3 in less than 6 weeks and I had intended to put the boys in the back, fold down one middle seat, and have the infant seat in the middle. I just thought that made the most sense. But, would it be better to have the boys in the middle and the baby in the back, with one back seat folded down? The only thing is, the baby would have to go in through the back, so I'd have to climb in every time I wanted to go somewhere. Plus, the baby wouldn't be within my reach, and wouldn't be able to see the boys. I suppose a mirror could fix some of that, but mirrors never worked to comfort my boys when they were freaking out in the car.

I guess this is a "what would you do" kind of question about arranging the various seats in the car.

Thanks for all your help, everyone, this is very enlightening!

[AlbertanMom]

Yeah, unfortunately Nautilus isn't available here yet.

Albertanmom - I just checked the carseat schedule. Carseat clinics are no longer being done out in St. Albert by capital health. The program is being restructured, and St. Albert fire stations have been phased out from what I can tell from looking at the schedule (http://www.capitalhealth.ca/NR/rdonlyres/eumts46ea6jjv4dmj4pn2kgfk2ohxm4qefzys34zr5szfcrayp b7k2i43fxb4bos7yw2c5ipcjjrjkokrrfygha5dde/ChildSafetySeatClinic2008.pdf).

(Capital Health is the only one who does carseat clinics around here, although the police usually do one in cooperation with them in the summer. It was at the west end division last summer.)


Crap! That sucks! And so weird, because every time I've ever been at the clinics out here, they've been packed.

I wrote down your email, so you can go ahead and delete it. I'll email you. Thanks again.

[Defrost]

So by this, do you mean that the seat moves front to back? I noticed no front to back movement at the top or belt path, but the seat definitely moved up/down or front/back... not sure which is the better description.

No, mine was definitely slipping front-to-back at the beltpath. It was pretty obvious.

Any thoughts on a non-slip material under the carseat? I've seen these available and thought I might try it.

You have leather in your vehicle? Personally, I don't like to use non-slip material on my installs, but then I rarely do installs in vehicles with leather. It can be useful in situations where the carseat is so slippery it's making the install hard, but it can also give a false sense of a good install.

I took the headrest off. It was the only way to make the carseat sit right on the seat. I found the base sat way too far forward if the headrest was on. Do you think that's a problem?

No, it's perfectly acceptable to remove the headrest if it interferes with the install. Just don't lose it! :)

Well, here's another question for you, then. I'm due with #3 in less than 6 weeks and I had intended to put the boys in the back, fold down one middle seat, and have the infant seat in the middle. I just thought that made the most sense. But, would it be better to have the boys in the middle and the baby in the back, with one back seat folded down? The only thing is, the baby would have to go in through the back, so I'd have to climb in every time I wanted to go somewhere. Plus, the baby wouldn't be within my reach, and wouldn't be able to see the boys. I suppose a mirror could fix some of that, but mirrors never worked to comfort my boys when they were freaking out in the car.


I'd probably wind up trying it both ways. I did play around with an infant seat and found it was pretty easy to load it through the back hatch. That was without a baby in it, of course. ;) I didn't even have to climb in, the cargo area's so short yk? But I think I'd prefer your original idea, with the older ones in the 3rd row and the baby in the 2nd. It sounds like you've managed to get a decent install back there. :shrug-shoulders:

[AlbertanMom]

No, mine was definitely slipping front-to-back at the beltpath. It was pretty obvious.

Well, I will have to double check this to be sure.


You have leather in your vehicle? Personally, I don't like to use non-slip material on my installs, but then I rarely do installs in vehicles with leather. It can be useful in situations where the carseat is so slippery it's making the install hard, but it can also give a false sense of a good install.

No, we have fabric. It still felt slippery to me.


No, it's perfectly acceptable to remove the headrest if it interferes with the install. Just don't lose it! :)

Yeah... that would be awful! Hmm I wonder if it would fit under the seat in that little storage compartment. :) How great is that feature?! I guess I just meant... is it better to have the carseat back flush with the seat, or for there to be a gap? I assumed flush... but maybe there is a benefit to bringing the carseat forward to help with the shoulder belt position?


I'd probably wind up trying it both ways. I did play around with an infant seat and found it was pretty easy to load it through the back hatch. That was without a baby in it, of course. ;)

Ha, yeah... I'm not so worried about the newborn days as I am about the 18-20 lb days!

But I think I'd prefer your original idea, with the older ones in the 3rd row and the baby in the 2nd. It sounds like you've managed to get a decent install back there. :shrug-shoulders:

Yeah... I'm wondering now just how good that install is, but I'll check it again next time I have a moment to spend out there testing this all out.

Speaking of... have you tried the Britax Parkway booster seat in the 3rd row? How does that work? I will most likely get that for my 3 year old when he outgrows the Radian but I want to make sure it will work well in the 3rd row. Or is there another booster seat that works better?

[Defrost]

No, we have fabric. It still felt slippery to me.

Oh yeah - it is pretty slippery for vehicle fabric, now that you mention it. I've just gotten so used to it I didn't even think of that!

Yeah... that would be awful! Hmm I wonder if it would fit under the seat in that little storage compartment. :) How great is that feature?!

YK, it might fit under there. I do like that little tray. I keep my towel, my windshield scraper, some bottled water, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting in there!

I guess I just meant... is it better to have the carseat back flush with the seat, or for there to be a gap? I assumed flush... but maybe there is a benefit to bringing the carseat forward to help with the shoulder belt position?

Generally flush is better, but it does vary. When we installed the Nautilus back there with the headrest on, I wasn't happy with the gap that was left, so we removed it and tried again. It was only touching the back of the vehicle seat on the headrest, which left a pretty large gap between the seat and the carseat.

I agree you should probably check the installs again; it's not that I'm doubting you, it's just that it's a really tricky thing. It is quite solid when checked side-to-side, it's the front-to-back check that's so loose, and that one is easy to miss, especially when the side-to-side one is so tight! I've never seen anything like it with any other install.

Speaking of... have you tried the Britax Parkway booster seat in the 3rd row? How does that work? I will most likely get that for my 3 year old when he outgrows the Radian but I want to make sure it will work well in the 3rd row. Or is there another booster seat that works better?

I wasn't happy with the fit. I'm sure some people would be fine with it, but the shoulder belt is so far forward of the vehicle seat that the shoulder belt bunches up at the belt guide quite a bit. That means that in a crash, the booster/child has to travel those extra inches forward before the retractor will engage. Personally, I just felt like it was too much.

So far the only boosters I've found that were thick enough are the Nautilus in booster mode and the Recaro Start - and I haven't actually tried the Start, but based on measurements it's even thicker than the Nauti, so it would work, too. Other than that, I don't really know of any. My kids have outgrown or nearly outgrown most of the HBBs and are in backless boosters, so I haven't put much effort into it. (Sorry, I'm not familiar with which seats are available in Canada besides the Radians, so if I keep mentioning seats that aren't relevant, I apologize!)

[sfeitler]

With our Radian in a Prius, we've had trouble with it sliding, sort of rotating, forward when we tighten the harness. Is that the sort of movement you're seeing? We managed to get it to stop by re-installing (and re-installing, and re-installing). We had to play with recline foot down and up, and with twisting the female stalk, and I needed DH pushing on the seat to get it in tight enough. Truly a pain.

Given Defrost's issues, if it were me I'd try to meet up with snowbird and have her look at the install. Just for the peace of mind. The Radian can be a real bear to get installed. :twocents:

-Sarah

[AlbertanMom]

I'm starting to wonder if I should take the Radians back (haven't used them yet) and exchange them for Marathons. Although 2 Marathons in the back would be SO bulky, wouldn't they? When I tried it, I just thought, their heads are going to touch the top of the car in a matter of weeks (slight exaggeration)!

Aaack.

[Defrost]

With our Radian in a Prius, we've had trouble with it sliding, sort of rotating, forward when we tighten the harness. Is that the sort of movement you're seeing?

Not sure who this was directed to, but no, it's not even pulling the harness adjuster that messes it up. When we install it: headrest off, recline thing down, buckle stalk completely twisted, buckle, tighten, un-buckle, tighten a bit more, then Gypsy compresses the carseat by bracing her back against the roof (not generally recommended LOL) so I can re-buckle, and it's tight when you check side-to-side. But when you hold the sides at the belt path and pull, the bottom slips out. It's like it's installed with the shoulder portion but not the lap portion, except the lap portion is obviously as tight as we can possibly get it. :(

AlbertanMom, I'd hate for you to return them just because I've had a hard time. Just because I'm a tech doesn't mean I'm always right. ;) That said, the Marathon does install more easily back there. I can get it really upright, or fairly reclined (but not in between.) The more reclined install would give you more room in the rear-view, but less leg-room for the kids.

Is Canada getting the Nautilus soon? I've found it's just as easy, if not more, to install back there as the Marathon, and you'd get more use out of it than the Marathon.

[Gypsy]

I would love to get the Radian back there. I'll have to see if Gypsy (my tech friend) wants to give it a try again. She'll probably try to strangle me if I suggest it though. :D





Tease! We should have tried it today!! It was gorgeous outside!

[snowbird25ca]

I am really really hoping for the Nautilus to come soon, but Graco is being tight lipped about it. I'd figured they'd try and beat the frontier, but no sign yet. :(

We don't have any recaro boosters in Canada either. The Monterey will be coming to Canada, but I have no idea how thick it is in the area you're describing - it may be a good option though?

I have found that sometimes with an install that's just barely acceptable, the front of the seat will slip a tiny bit when you pull on the adjuster. When I've had that happens, it's usually a case of maybe 1/4" - so it's acceptable, just a different experience.

Albertan mom - It should be warming up here right away, I'd say let's get together before you take the radians back. I have a good bit of experience with it and am familiar with the front to back problems it can have. The low profile is nice for older kids, and it'll last longer, so if it'll work back there, you're probably better off keeping them. I can't promise we can get it to work, but better to know for sure before taking it back. ;)

(p.s. if you want to register, it's free to do it and you won't get any spam or anything. Once you come out of moderation, it means you don't have to wait for your posts to be approved anymore.)

[Gypsy]

Not sure who this was directed to, but no, it's not even pulling the harness adjuster that messes it up. When we install it: headrest off, recline thing down, buckle stalk completely twisted, buckle, tighten, un-buckle, tighten a bit more, then Gypsy compresses the carseat by bracing her back against the roof (not generally recommended LOL) so I can re-buckle, and it's tight when you check side-to-side. But when you hold the sides at the belt path and pull, the bottom slips out. It's like it's installed with the shoulder portion but not the lap portion, except the lap portion is obviously as tight as we can possibly get it. :(

AlbertanMom, I'd hate for you to return them just because I've had a hard time. Just because I'm a tech doesn't mean I'm always right. ;) That said, the Marathon does install more easily back there. I can get it really upright, or fairly reclined (but not in between.) The more reclined install would give you more room in the rear-view, but less leg-room for the kids.

Is Canada getting the Nautilus soon? I've found it's just as easy, if not more, to install back there as the Marathon, and you'd get more use out of it than the Marathon.

Debbie and I are very good, very experienced techs, however for many seats in that 3rd row it takes both of us to get good installs.

I'd return them for the Marathons to be honest, that was one seat that was a breeze to get back there without two people. Rear and forward facing.

I'd also rear face your 18 month old to the limits of whatever convertible seat you get, he really would be SO much safer!

[Gypsy]

Is there any difference between the US version and Canadian version of the Mazda 5? Debbie's in a 2007, is the OP's M5 an '07?

[Defrost]

Is there any difference between the US version and Canadian version of the Mazda 5? Debbie's in a 2007, is the OP's M5 an '07?

That's a very good point. I am fairly sure all the model-years are pretty much the same, but I don't know if Canadian cars would be different. :shrug-shoulders:

[sfeitler]

Not sure who this was directed to, but no, it's not even pulling the harness adjuster that messes it up.

It was directed to AlbertanMom. :) In my experience with the Prius, the seat seems to be tight at the beltpath, but slips some when you adjust the harness. I think Snowbird described a similar behavior. Technically, it's installed well enough (less than 1" movement at the beltpath), but it's extremely annoying to have it move when you tighten the harness... Anyway, I was just trying to figure out what movement AlbertanMom was describing.

-Sarah

[Gypsy]

It was directed to AlbertanMom. :) In my experience with the Prius, the seat seems to be tight at the beltpath, but slips some when you adjust the harness. I think Snowbird described a similar behavior. Technically, it's installed well enough (less than 1" movement at the beltpath), but it's extremely annoying to have it move when you tighten the harness... Anyway, I was just trying to figure out what movement AlbertanMom was describing.

-Sarah

This happens in the 3rd row of my '06 Sedona w/60/40 split bench. It's still more than acceptable, but it does slip forward a tad when you pull the harness adjuster strap. What happens in the 3rd row of Debbie's M5 is crazy & not even remotely acceptable.

[AlbertanMom]

Not sure who this was directed to, but no, it's not even pulling the harness adjuster that messes it up. When we install it: headrest off, recline thing down, buckle stalk completely twisted, buckle, tighten, un-buckle, tighten a bit more, then Gypsy compresses the carseat by bracing her back against the roof (not generally recommended LOL) so I can re-buckle, and it's tight when you check side-to-side. But when you hold the sides at the belt path and pull, the bottom slips out. It's like it's installed with the shoulder portion but not the lap portion, except the lap portion is obviously as tight as we can possibly get it. :(

This is exactly the slippage I was talking about. And it's what prompted me to ask about installing through the RF belt path... it seemed illogical to me to not install it through the seat, which seems to make it a lot more stable. But, I can't do that, and so it slips.

Aaack.

Oh... and for the later posters... I also have an '07 M5.

[AlbertanMom]

This happens in the 3rd row of my '06 Sedona w/60/40 split bench. It's still more than acceptable, but it does slip forward a tad when you pull the harness adjuster strap. What happens in the 3rd row of Debbie's M5 is crazy & not even remotely acceptable.

So why would this problem be just with the Radian? Does it not occur with other seats?

[Gypsy]

It's because of the unique design of the Radian, it's a thin seat with a low belt path, the M5 also has unusual forward of the seat shoulder belts and buckles that are also slightly forward.

Some seats are just not compatible in some seating locations. The Radian is just not compatible forward facing in the 3rd row of the M5 - I think Debbie tried it rear facing too? I don't recall.

It might be easiest to put one Radian rear facing back there for your 18 month old, and the infant carseat back there too if they both install well, then put your other Radian forward facing in the center row.

The back "cargo area" is so small that it should be easy to get 2 kids rear facing back there buckled safely.

[Defrost]

So why would this problem be just with the Radian? Does it not occur with other seats?

The Radian's belt path is low and narrow. Most carseats' belt paths are higher and thicker, which allow for a wider range of seat belts to work. The Radian's belt path works well with LATCH, though, and I suspect it was designed with that mind, and seat belt installs were secondary.

It's also an issue with certain seat belts, too, regardless of the type of the carseat, but the Radian is notorious for it with all kinds of seat belts.

[Defrost]

LOL - we posted at the same time! :)

I think Debbie tried it rear facing too? I don't recall.

Yes, and it installs fairly easily in the 3rd row when RF.

[sfeitler]

Is there LATCH in the 3rd row? Could OP use LATCH for her 35-pound child FF, and either LATCH or seatbelt for her 18-month-old turned back RF?

Or put the 18-month-old in the back row RF, buckle him in from the rear gate (he can climb in himself, probably, if she teaches him to?), then put baby and older child in the middle row?

-Sarah

[Defrost]

Is there LATCH in the 3rd row?

Nope, only in the 2nd row. (Installs in the 2nd row are DREAMY, btw! If they'd just put LATCH in the 3rd row, it'd help a lot. Of course, I'd also like a router for the shoulder belt, as long as we're dreaming...)

[sfeitler]

Nope, only in the 2nd row. (Installs in the 2nd row are DREAMY, btw! If they'd just put LATCH in the 3rd row, it'd help a lot. Of course, I'd also like a router for the shoulder belt, as long as we're dreaming...)

Bummer! Bad shoulder belt placement, no LATCH anchors... what was Mazda thinking??

-Sarah

[Defrost]

Bummer! Bad shoulder belt placement, no LATCH anchors... what was Mazda thinking??


I've decided they were thinking "No safety standards for 3rd-row seats, barely anyone's going to use these regularly anyway - let's go the cheap route!" :thumbsdown:

ETA: Sorry to be confusing - 3rd row seats must pass the same safety standards as the other rows, but they are not required to test 3rd-row seats with crash-test dummies, so any issues with the belt position would not be obvious. (Not to mention that the problem is with kids who wiggle and move around, not crash-test dummies who always stay behind the seat belt even if it is five inches in front of their chest!)

[BookMama]

I've decided they were thinking "No safety standards for 3rd-row seats, barely anyone's going to use these regularly anyway - let's go the cheap route!" :thumbsdown:

That's really too bad, because this is such a nice, affordable family car. Although I guess most people wouldn't know/care about the seat belt issue anyway.

We are thinking of getting one when we pay off our main car this summer. The seat belt issues worries me but not too much, since we only have two kids and the third row would be used very rarely. Mostly I LOVE the sliding doors and the possibility of 6 passengers. We'd probably keep the third row folded down for cargo most of the time. (How nicely DOES it fold down? Not flat, I assume.)

[AlbertanMom]

(How nicely DOES it fold down? Not flat, I assume.)

Actually it folds down perfectly flat, and very easily.

I'm thinking more and more that I'm going to end up putting the boys in the middle and the baby in the back. What I'll do when the baby is FF, I'm not sure yet. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Maybe by then, my oldest will be big enough for a booster and at that point I can start searching for one that will be compatible with the 3rd row.

Having said that, though, I'll update when Snowbird has a chance to have a look at it. :)

[BookMama]

Actually it folds down perfectly flat, and very easily.

I'm thinking more and more that I'm going to end up putting the boys in the middle and the baby in the back. What I'll do when the baby is FF, I'm not sure yet. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Maybe by then, my oldest will be big enough for a booster and at that point I can start searching for one that will be compatible with the 3rd row.

Having said that, though, I'll update when Snowbird has a chance to have a look at it. :)

Thanks! This vehicle sounds more and more appealing to me.

Debbie has said that the Nautilus is deep enough to work as a booster with the 3rd row seatbelts.

[AlbertanMom]

Thanks! This vehicle sounds more and more appealing to me.

Debbie has said that the Nautilus is deep enough to work as a booster with the 3rd row seatbelts.

It is a GREAT vehicle... I've had it less than a week but I love it to death already.

The Nautilus isn't available in Canada right now, but maybe by the time my oldest needs a booster (or we need to turn the newest one forward), it will be. There's hope! I'm betting that'll give Graco at least another year, probably longer.