installation question....

[Misty-Bug]

my friend just got a radian. I will be helping her install it today. But I told her I will only help if she has read her manual and is there to be shown how to do it. That I will only guide her. ;)
Now she has another seat, the Evenflo® Traditions Plus Harness Booster Car Seat. It is a couple years old but her oldest DD has outgrown it at almost 4, and 47.5 lbs so when we got her DD's weight she IMMEDIATELY went and got the Radian. Thank goodness! So anyway the seat will be passed down to her 2nd DD who weights 32.5 lbs at 14 months. So she has to be FFing. The problem is that by law, up here in Canada the carseat MUST be top tethered. However the harness on the stupid evenflo (I really don't like the carseat. LOL) is not long enough to reach the hook on the floor. The side that the seat is going on doesn't even have a hook. But it does have a spot where the bench seat would clip onto when they use that in the middle position. But again the hook won't reach.
I do not know the type of van. I always forget. It is an older model. No one will put the latch in for them. So basically I have a few questions....
1) can the tether be hooked to the floor where the bench seat would clip into?
2) Since she will not be using the D hook from the Radian (cause YAY the tether is long enough) can she use the D hook to "extend" the evenflo's tether? So it would wrap around either the seat post or if it is ok to do it the floor anchor that would be used for the bench seat.
3) Can I use another part, Sunshine kids D strap, onto a different seat or no cause it has not been crash tested.

really this is the only option or else they just won't hook the top tether at all. The seats are going into Captain chairs, with locking clips due to the fact that her seat belts don't lock. Jenn....I may call today. LOL...but am hoping for pointers. Sorry for the book...........I hope it makes sense. I should be sleeping but couldn't sleep thinking about this! LOL

[singingpond]

The D-ring straps that come with Radian and most Britax seats are only for RF tethering; they are not rated to be used with FF installations, where you are likely to get much higher forces on the tether in a crash.

If it is an 'older' vehicle, perhaps they should further pursue the installation of more top tether anchors. My understanding is that it is generally newer vehicles (those with tether anchors already installed) that cannot have tether anchors retrofitted, whereas it usually can be done in older vehicles. Oh, just re-read your post, and if the vehicle already has some tether anchors, perhaps it is in the newer not-retrofittable category?

How does that work legally in Canada, with your top-tether requirement?

Maybe she can get a longer tether strap from Evenflo? If you have to leave one of the seats untethered, I think it would be better for it to be the Radian, which has good head excursion numbers untethered, and which will have the larger (older) child in it.

Katrin

[joolsplus3]

Evenflo provides longer top tether straps. Have her call and get one (should be free).

:)

[Misty-Bug]

evenflo does? Well I will get her to call then. Or I will call ;)
there is not an option to choose one or the other to be untethered. The fact of the matter is that the evenflo does not reach. I could get my mechanic husband to put the anchors in then couldn't I? Cause there is only one top tether spot in the whole vehicle. So even if we got the longer strap then there would be no where to tether it to

[singingpond]

Maybe get more specific information about the vehicle, and post back with a LATCH manual question? When you say that 'no one will put in latch for them', how hard have they tried? In my experience (getting retrofit tether anchors for 3 different older vehicles), many/most vehicle dealers are pretty clueless about top tether retrofit, and you have to be very persistent, usually have to talk to multiple dealerships, and preferably have program numbers and/or part numbers in hand to get anywhere. I would think that in Canada, with the top tether use requirement, this might be easier (or at least more familiar to the dealerships)... but apparently not?

Katrin

[joolsplus3]

I moved this to the Canadian Forum now that it's become more than a generic installation issue....:thumbsup:

[Misty-Bug]

oh ok. Sorry

[Misty-Bug]

can my mechanic husband put the tether in the vehicle for them? The tether spot that is?

[singingpond]

can my mechanic husband put the tether in the vehicle for them? The tether spot that is?

Is there a threaded spot for an anchor (weld nut) already in place? Usually this would be described in the vehicle owner's manual. Can the official anchor hardware be obtained for the vehicle? If so, do-it-yourself installation is usually pretty manageable (best to use a torque wrench, to get proper tightness on the bolt). Sometimes, as in my older Toyota wagon, you have to cut through a bunch of trim material to get at the weld nut location, which is sort of a pain, and looks messy. Not sure I'd want to do this in someone else's vehicle, depending on their opinion of the aesthetics of holes hacked in plastic :D.

If there is no pre-existing location, the whole thing is a lot more problematic. Maybe look into the EZ-On anchors (I believe the company will give advice on how/where to install their anchors in various vehicles). Although I would definitely consider putting an EZ-On anchor into my own vehicle (if there truly was no way to way to get vehicle-specific anchors in a really old vehicle), I'm not sure that I would assume the liability of putting after-market anchors into someone else's car. With EZ-On, you have to choose a suitable location and drill a hole, rather than relying on a manufacturer-blessed location with weld nut already in place.

Katrin

[scatterbunny]

Without knowing more information about the vehicle and actually obtaining the correct tether anchor kit, it's kind of hard to say if your dh will be able to do it or not. IME, most tether anchor installs are pretty simple, do-it-yourself jobs, but I can't say that's true across the board.

[snowbird25ca]

The side that the seat is going on doesn't even have a hook. But it does have a spot where the bench seat would clip onto when they use that in the middle position. But again the hook won't reach.
I do not know the type of van. I always forget. It is an older model. No one will put the latch in for them. So basically I have a few questions....
1) can the tether be hooked to the floor where the bench seat would clip into?
2) Since she will not be using the D hook from the Radian (cause YAY the tether is long enough) can she use the D hook to "extend" the evenflo's tether? So it would wrap around either the seat post or if it is ok to do it the floor anchor that would be used for the bench seat.
3) Can I use another part, Sunshine kids D strap, onto a different seat or no cause it has not been crash tested.

really this is the only option or else they just won't hook the top tether at all. The seats are going into Captain chairs, with locking clips due to the fact that her seat belts don't lock. Jenn....I may call today. LOL...but am hoping for pointers. Sorry for the book...........I hope it makes sense. I should be sleeping but couldn't sleep thinking about this! LOL

Can you find out the exact year, make & model Misty?

If she has 3rd row, then she has 3rd row seatbelts. She can create an anchor point for the evenflo seat using the 3rd row seatbelt. Older vans quite frequently used locking latchplates - unless it's a pre-1997 ford. If that's the case, then it definitely doesn't have locking latchplates, but Ford does provide locking clips if you talk to the dealer.

To create an anchor point using the 3rd row seatbelt (I'm assuming they have the 3rd row out based on your post,) extend the seatbelt and attach the tether hook to the latch plate on the seatbelt. Then use a locking clip to lock the seatbelt to a fixed length, and tighten the top tether.

To answer your questions, the answers are no, no and no. The forces placed on a d-ring are much different than those placed on a top tether anchor. A top tether withstands much more force in a collision and is part of the seat meeting standards. For a ff'ing seat the tether hook can only be attached to an approved tether anchor in the vehicle - or you can use the seatbelt to create an anchor point as described above. (If she has locking latchplates then you do NOT use a locking clip, extend the seatbelt far enough to attach the top tether, then tighten the top tether to the point where the seatbelt quits extending and the latchplate locks.)

I could get my mechanic husband to put the anchors in then couldn't I? Cause there is only one top tether spot in the whole vehicle. So even if we got the longer strap then there would be no where to tether it to

can my mechanic husband put the tether in the vehicle for them? The tether spot that is?

Your husband could put in the tether anchor provided that a) he has the proper parts, and b) he knows where the manufacturer approved locations are.

If you call a dealership and ask about having LATCH retrofitted, you're going to be told no every single time. LATCH cannot be retrofitted. You need to call and ask specifically about top tether anchors. Most dealerships in Canada - at least all the ones that I've talked to thus far, know exactly what you're talking about and they have a manual that they look the part # of in and can provide locations and everything. Also have her check her vehicle owners manual to see what it says about tether anchor locations.

Again, make/model/year of vehicle would be really helpful. But in the meantime, create a temporary top tether anchor point using the 3rd row seatbelt directly behind the seat that the carseat is installed on.

eta: One other thing I would consider, is having her take the van in to your dh's shop for him to install the tether anchor if he's going to be the one to do it. He can do whatever he needs to in terms of billing, but do it on shop time so that the shop's liability covers the installation of the tether anchor jic.

[Misty-Bug]

ok snowbird,......the vehicle is a 1994 Dodge Caravan.
I can totally do the seat belt thing if you just try to explain it better for me......She does not have locking belts so how would I do this? The seat is installed in the middle captains chair, driver side outboard. SO the bench seat is in the back.....
so would I put a locking clip on the male end of the seatbelt behind the car seat? So do I put it an inch away from the male end then clip the hook onto the buckle itself? but how would I pull it tight?? I am confussed....can you show me pics??

[snowbird25ca]

ok snowbird,......the vehicle is a 1994 Dodge Caravan.
I can totally do the seat belt thing if you just try to explain it better for me......She does not have locking belts so how would I do this? The seat is installed in the middle captains chair, driver side outboard. SO the bench seat is in the back.....
so would I put a locking clip on the male end of the seatbelt behind the car seat? So do I put it an inch away from the male end then clip the hook onto the buckle itself? but how would I pull it tight?? I am confussed....can you show me pics??

I'm 99% sure she does have locking seatbelts, they just lock at the latchplate - they look like sliding latchplates until you put a seat in, but when the belts are parallel to each other - same as with a lap belt, the lap portion doesn't lengthen anymore.

So just pull the seatbelt out enough so that you can hook the tether anchor onto the metal tongue of the seatbelt. Then tighten the tether strap. There'll come a point where the tether won't tighten anymore and the seatbelt will quit extending just because of the type of latchplates her seatbelts have.

Also, when you reinstall her seats, she shouldn't need a locking clip. Make sure you do the test by sitting down in the seat, buckling yourself in, tightening the seatbelt so the lap belt is snug across your lap, then pick up the lap belt in the middle and pull up on it. It shouldn't move freely. You can try this trick in your ford beforehand so you can see the difference in how a sliding latchplate and a lightweight locking latchplate behave when you test this.

So far as I know Dodge has been using the lightweight locking latchplates for a long time, since before 97. The thing to remember about these types of latchplates, is they prevent the lap belt from lengthening, but the shoulder portion will continue to move freely - and that's fine. It's the lap belt that holds the seat in place anyways. If it ends up that her belts don't lock at the latchplate like that (and it will look totally different than what you're used to with your ford lap belt, so don't go by that, actually test it out,) then use a locking clip on the seatbelt. Tighten the tether up right close to the shell before putting on the locking clip, and then get the locking clip within 1/2" of the latchplate.

But only use that locking clip if her belts aren't locking. You don't want to use a locking clip if you don't have to, and like I said, I'm pretty certain her belts lock at the latchplate.

[snowbird25ca]

This thread here: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=39184&highlight=picture+lightweight+locking+latchplate
The first post has 2 attachments. That is a lightweight locking latchplate in the pictures there. Hopefully that helps you tell the difference.

[hipmaman]

Just a couple of points as I'm reading the posts...

- Evenflo tends to have short tether straps. However, upon request a long one can be sent out. Take note/pictures of how the short tether strap is attached before you undo it to replace with the long tether strap. But the long strap takes time to arrive, so in the meantime do the temporary tethering Trudy mentioned.

- 1994 Caravan does have tether anchor spots for centre and outboard. These are probably pre-drilled holes and might not be obvious. Look for flat plastic cap on the back panel by the trunk door. Any Dodge dealership should either have the correct tether anchor or can order it in for her. Just give them the make, model and year. Your dh can put the proper anchor in the correct pre-drilled hole. But a dealership should also install for free as well. She might have to pay the nominal charge ($10-15) for the anchor.

-

[Misty-Bug]

This thread here: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=39184&highlight=picture+lightweight+locking+latchplate
The first post has 2 attachments. That is a lightweight locking latchplate in the pictures there. Hopefully that helps you tell the difference.


looks like it *might* be the same belt she has. The male end. The female end is completely covered by plastic and cannot be rotated. I wish I would have gotten pics. Sorry I didn't. I will be moving the carseats with her some day here. She is not going anywhere in the next couple days so we will see.