flying with kids to italy

[Unregistered]

I have 2 kids --a 7yr and 6 mos old and we will be traveling to Italy this summer. Not sure what to do: have my parents inItaly buy 2 car seats (or a car seat + booster) and have them installed or take two with us from the US? I would prefer making the choice of car seats myself --but then how do I know if they fit my parent's car or not? Will US car seats fit in European cars and how do I find out about that? Also, last question: we were not allowed to use a car seat on Alitalia and some other carriers, so its not even a gaurantee that we will be allowed to use them if we do. Any suggestions, advice! help.

[QuassEE]

I've never flown Alitalia, so I can't comment on that part.. as far whether or not to take your carseats--it'll depend on what vehicle they have. If they have a vehicle that is going to be compatible with your seats, then I would recommend taking them. It's always easier to install a familiar seat in an unfamiliar car versus an unfamiliar seat in an unfamiliar car! We took our seat to Italy, and had no problems in a VW Polo, but in my friend's Fiat he had belts that actually clicked in on two sides. Other than that--no surprises. I'd expect most infant buckets would fit in cars there--take a locking clip, though. If you do end up having a "check" a seat, do a gatecheck. Most LBBs will fit into suitcases.

Enjoy your trip! We'll be going back to Italy as soon as we can figure out how to manage FOUR kids there for a month! :) My friend's car only seats 6 in total, and I'm just not comfortable braving l'autostrade!

Post back when you know what vehicle it is, and let us know what seat your youngest is in...?

-Nicole.

[hopster67]

Have heard of others who have been denied car seat use on Allitalia - seems to be pretty consistent with that carrier, though I've not had personal experience (I won't fly it because of the stories I've heard).

http://www.anysubject.com/flying-with-children-babies-a-baby-kids-infants-airline-operator.asp

And a full quote from this website...(http://flyertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-314700.html)...

Here's the full policy as found here (http://www.alitalia-agent.com/news.htm):Alitalia Infant Procedures

AZ-Coded, AZ-Operated Flights
Due to safety regulations set forth by E.N.A.C. (Ente Nazionale per L’Aviazione Civile, The Italian Authority equivalent to the United States FAA), Alitalia does not permit children under two years of age to occupy her/his own seat. The infant must travel while seated on an accompanying adult’s lap. A seatbelt extension is provided.

Alitalia does not allow the use of infant car seats on board its aircraft. The use of car seats, while being approved by the U.S. FAA, has not yet been approved by certain foreign government entities, including E.N.A.C.

AZ-Coded, other carrier-operated Flights
• The infant seat rule of the operating carrier supersedes the Alitalia general rule. As such, the booking procedure for the infant required by that other carrier must be adhered to.
• Our SkyTeam partners currently allow a seat to be purchased for an infant (traveling in a car seat) for the applicable child’s fare.
• For SkyTeam (AF, AM, DL, KE, OK) Partner-operated, AZ-coded flights, an OSIAZ message must be added, advising the infant’s name as it appears on its passport, and date of birth (3OSIAZ 1INF 1NAME/NAME. DOB 08/15/04). This should generate the proper messages to all carriers involved in the booking.

AZ-Operated, other carrier-coded Flights
• Alitalia rules regarding infant-in-seat supersede the other carriers’ rules. If a seat is erroneously purchased for an infant, the infant will not be allowed its own seat, and an infant fare (10% of the applicable fare) ticket will have to be purchased at check-in. The passenger will have to inquire about a refund (for the child’s fare purchased) with the issuing agency.

Policy for Handling Strollers/Car Seats at Check-in
• AZ Check-In The passenger traveling with an infant will be allowed to have a stroller or car seat to hold the infant until actual flight boarding. At that point, the stroller/car seat will be tagged and checked in at the gate.
• Other Carrier Check-In The passenger traveling with an infant will be allowed to have a stroller for the infant until actual flight boarding. At that point, the stroller will be tagged and checked in at the gate. Only a car seat will be allowed on the aircraft.

[Unregistered]

gee, got to digest all the bad stuff on Alitalia! I am also so bothered by the car seat thing and all the strikes. But is there another carrier that flies directly? Also, with the price of tickets this summer and the fact taht my ds(6 mos) hates the car seat and screams everytime he is in one, I am sorely tempted not to buy another seat for him. I was thinking of having him wrapped on me in my woven soft carrier. then I can nurse him during take off and landing which will help his ears. Is that unheard of? all this is helpful for clarifying things for me,.Thanks!

[QuassEE]

They should let you use a sling, as long as the secondary belt is also on. They will insist on the secondary belt though.

-Nicole.

[susanna]

my mom's car is a nissan micra. recent vintage I assume, (will ask). anyway the Nissan dealer in italy recommends a Romer Baby-safe. But it only goes to 9kg and my boy is already around 7.5 kg now, so it doesn't make sense to get something he would outgrow so soon. Do you know the Romer brand? I looked on their site and they have seat for 9-18kgs but it didn't say if they were backward facing. My plan would be to choose the seat from here and have it shipped by the manufacture to Italy, but I need to be sure that 1) its a good seat 2) its backward facing 3) it fits well in teh Micra. any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Susanna

[QuassEE]

The Micra is a common vehicle here, but the newer version available in Europe today is completely different. Without the year, it's impossible to say what may or may not be compatible.. Since you've mentioned Romer (aka Roemer, aka Romer (dots over the o), aka Britax), did you check their Fit-Finder?

http://www.britax.co.uk/index.php?option=com_fitfinder&home=1&Itemid=62

It's UK but at least it will give you a list of European-available seats that will fit in the Micra.

Does that help at all?

-Nicole.

[susanna]

Thats really helpful I will post the Nissan date tomorrow and check out this site! THANKS.

[QuassEE]

Another thing--the UK version of the Baby-Safe is called the Cosy Tot and does have a 29lb weight limit.. Is this another option for you? It installs solid in most vehicles and has a lap/shoulder-belt (rear guide) installation. Really no surprises when installing one baseless, and it's extremely narrow and can be installed handle-up to help fit in small Euro cars. I had the US version (which is also called the Baby-Safe...) that we used for travel.

http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/br/britax-cosy-tot-isofix-infant-carrier.jpg

-Nicole.

[susanna]

I will check this out. Been browsing the Britax site fitfinder which is really useful. But, ok, here is how ignorant I am: can any seat be used rearfacing? the eclipse SI is the only one with smily faces when installed in the Micra. on to more, great to have your answers so quickly!
Susanna

[susanna]

THe thing about the cosy tot is that pounds wise it might be fine. He was at 4 months 16.4 LB. But already 27'' long. I am afraid he would be too long by the time we get to use it in July. what do you think?
Susanna

[QuassEE]

The Cosy Tot shell and harness positions are almost identical (if not so) to the Roundabout. My daughter fit by height until recently, and she'll be 3 in a month. It's not a small shell, but it is kind of skinny looking. It's another one of those seats that kids outgrow in weight before height, so weight should be a really good guideline here.

In the UK, they talk about seats in "Groups"..

Look here:
http://www.britax.co.uk/index.php?option=com_britax&task=grouphome&Itemid=31

You'll want either Group 0+ (which I believe should be the 29lb seats, RF only, infant only) or Group 0/1 (what we call a convertible)...

-Nicole.

[susanna]

ok, I am confused. on the britax uk site, they don't give the specs of height. So the rock-a-tot Plus SI which is the one that fits in teh nissan micra doesn't tell me anything more than it fits to 13kgs. The Cosy tot is not a good fit for the Nissan.
I have currently a Britax Companion infant seat which is 30" or less as limit. Infact, I want to change it because he is 27" and fills it entirely. So, is the Rock-atot --the same thing?

will a britax bought here --say a companion --fit in the nissan?
Susanna

[QuassEE]

Height limits are a guideline, the rule of thumb is 1" from the top of the seat shell. Most kids are taller than the guideline limit when they outgrow the seat in height.. (although there have been some issues as far as height guidelines in Canada, since we're talking Europe and the US here, it doesn't really apply..) The Cosy Tot is significantly taller than the Companion...again, it's on par with the Roundabout. The original Rock-a-tot was TINY..I have one, and my kids use it as a doll seat..but apparently the newer ones are larger, and I'm not sure how they compare to the Cosy Tot. Since it has the higher weight limit, chances are it's also fairly tall. It looks pretty similar to the Cosy Tot now, and looking at the bottom of it I'd imagine they'd both install about the same.

I can't see the Cosy Tot or the Rock-a-tot being bad installs in the Micra when baseless, but I could see the base being a huge problem. In fact, I can't see the Cosy Tot installing poorly in any car without the base and with an older child (where angle isn't as much of an issue), as long as it's installed lap/shoulder and then forced back to angle. The base...that's another story completely. I can't speak for the Rock-a-tot, since I've never touched one.

-Nicole.

[susanna]

THanks Nicole! you are very helpful and patient. Will do more thinking and reading.
Will any of these carseats from the UK/Eu work when and if I bring them back to the US after a year? perhaps it would be good to get a convertible then and use it when we get back.

Susanna

[QuassEE]

No problem--hopefully you're still fond of me when we need a place to stay next time we're in Italy! :)

But..nope--you cannot use a European carseat in the United States as a resident, as it does not have FMVSS certification. I didn't realize you were going for a whole year--I understand your concerns over the infant seats heights! It might be a close call with an infant seat, but I do think the Cosy Tot would probably be fine until 1.5 as long as you don't have a monster baby. Remember that their growth slows down after the newborn stage.

-Nicole.

[susanna]

ok, so my mom's Micra is 2004. Where am I? hmmm, looks like I will have to buy a new seat for my 6mos to use here since he is outgrown the britax companion. I am thinking of the boulevard? any pro/cons on it that you know of. Then when I get to Italy, use the First Class Si Ultra. Rear facing up to 13 kg. For my older son, 7 I will need a booster seat of some kind. my DH doesn't think he needs one , this is going to be interesting.

[lenats31]

THe thing about the cosy tot is that pounds wise it might be fine. He was at 4 months 16.4 LB. But already 27'' long. I am afraid he would be too long by the time we get to use it in July. what do you think?
Susanna

My son was 30" long by 8 months. We have transferred him to a bigger rearfacing seat. But he still had plenty of room to grow in the BabySafe.

I am on maternity leave (1 year in Denmark) and DH had some days off work, so we decided to go to Sweden and get the next stage seat for him.

Lena

[lenats31]

ok, so my mom's Micra is 2004. Where am I? hmmm, looks like I will have to buy a new seat for my 6mos to use here since he is outgrown the britax companion. I am thinking of the boulevard? any pro/cons on it that you know of. Then when I get to Italy, use the First Class Si Ultra. Rear facing up to 13 kg. For my older son, 7 I will need a booster seat of some kind. my DH doesn't think he needs one , this is going to be interesting.

How tall is your son? There are laws in Europe that must be followed. In many European countries children MUST use a seat that is appropiate for the child in height and weight as well as fit the car until they are at least 135 cm tall.

As for your younger child. I would get a convertiable OR a BeSafe carseat.
Since you are going in July and going to stay for a year, your use of the BabySafe will be limited.

OR you can import a seat a bigger rearfacing seat from Scandinavia. IF you choose not to import from Scandinavia (most of these have rearfacing top tether straps. Top Tether anchors behind the front seat is not required). Then there are only very few ERF seats left to choose from. In fact I think there is only one if it is available in Italy (BeSafe). Most European cars don´t have top tether anchors. But there are some forwardfacing seats that come with a foot prop, which performs as a top tether.

Lena



Lena