3 in the back of 06 Grand Caravan...need more tethers!

[starrmom]

I am wanting to put 3 FF radian premier carseats in the rear seat of my '06 Grand Caravan. I will need to have 2 more top tethers added. I contacted Dodge/Chrysler and they said that it is possible to add tethers...Has anyone had problems getting the extra "2" tethers added? (I've heard stories of weight limits because of forces in a crash.) Also, how much were they charged by the dealership? I would appreciate any extra info/tips on this subject, including installing these radian seats FF as I have only had these seats RF until now. Thanks!

[Defrost]

Unfortunately, you were misinformed. You can't retrofit tether anchors in vehicles that already come with them. You can only retrofit in certain older models that didn't come with any in the first place; that's probably where the misunderstanding came from. :(

[Gypsy]

The good news is that the Radian performs well without the top tether, yes, of course it's always better to use the top tether, but if you were going to get a seat that you can't tether the Radian is the way to go.

[wendytthomas]

She's asking about the Radian Premier, though, which is Canadian, and they require top tethers. How could they not retrofit them then? I agree the Radian is great without tethers, and they install really easily outboard in the third row (easiest installation ever for them I found), but Canada will require her to have tethers. Or is it just that she's exempt because her car didn't come with them and can't get extras?

Wendy

[unityco]

Or is it just that she's exempt because her car didn't come with them and can't get extras?

If she is in Canada, I don't believe she's exempt. We just had a thread on the Canadian Forum about this. The other poster's vehicle had no tethers and could not be retrofitted. TC clearly indicated that she would not be exempt from tethering because of that. She could not legally transport FF harnessed children in that vehicle.

I've also not heard about vehicle manufacturers allowing retrofitting in Canada while not doing it in the 'States, so it's unlikely a Canadian dealer would put in tethers (but I certainly don't know everything! ;)) I've heard there are a few vehicles that came with tethers that can have more added, but they are the same on both sides of the border. I don't think the '06 Caravan is one of them.

The OP's situation is unfortunate. Why manufacturers are only required to provide three tethers in a vehicle that seats 7 is beyond me.

[jdubsm]

Dodge would not install additional tethers in my '03 Caravan. It's crazy they sell them as a "family car" with only one tether in the back row.

[CDNTech]

It is not possible to have extra tether anchors added to vehicles after 2002.

Just for clarification... You are *NOT* exempt from using a tether just because you've used all available ones. ALL seats in Canada *must* be tethered when Forward Facing.

Occasionally you find a dealer willing to add tethers to a vehicle newer than 2002, however, they are not always an approved position.

I've heard of one vehicle (Dodge van) having the tether anchors added to a bar underneath the bench seat and it's just a fabric loop, very similar to what they do in the Ford trucks. Dodge vans have *never* had a fabric loop for a tether attached under the seat, so I'm *not* comfortable with this set up.

I also used to own a 2003 Dodge Grand Caravan. It was bought new and when we got it, I specifically asked for tether anchors to be installed in the two outboard 3rd row positions. We had some issues because they told me it couldn't be done. At the time, I thought that was crazy and pursued it further. They ended up adding two outboard anchors to the floor of the third row just in front of the tailgate sill... this is the approved location for adding tether anchors to earlier model years of that vehicle. I would *NOT* be comfortable doing this to a 2004 model or newer because they added the stow and go seating and it completely changed that third row set up.

A lot of the manufacturer's are taking the chance that you will not have more than 3 child restraints in the vehicle at one time and only add the bare minimum required anchors (3). More and more of them (minivans especially) are starting to realized this is not sufficient and are putting them in all positions.

If you list the ages/weights/heights of the children you need to fit in the van, maybe we can come up with an alternate suggestion of getting them all in the van safely/legally.

ETA: Installation tips for the Radian in an '03 Grand Caravan (with pictures) can be found here... these tips will work in pretty much any vehicle. :)
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=28939

[starrmom]

Thanks Jen,
I would NEVER EVER transport children without a top tether anyways!!! :thumbsdown:
I was hoping to have an easier set up in the back if I stowed the front seats, making it easier to get in and out of the van...probably just a nice dream though!!!

I'm pretty sure that the best locations are to have my 1 year old RFing twin daughters in the captain seats with latch and my 2 year old FFing son in the center of the 3rd row using the lap belt and top tether as my other two children are seated in the back with him (as they are now) Correct me please if I am wrong. I was just hoping to have three radians, since I like the safety aspects of the seat, but since they are so tall it makes getting in and out of the van difficult for any one except my 2 year old:D

As you requested (Sorry I don't have their exact heights right now ...they're all sleeping, but here's height/weight estimates):

son1 almost 9 years, 90lbs, 4'6", no carseat
daughter1 7 years 41lbs, 48-50", Graco Turbobooster
son2 27 months 24lbs, 36"?, Radian Premier FFing
daughter2 12 months, 19lbs, 30" Radian Premier RFing
daughter3 12 months, 17lbs, 29" Graco Comfortsport for now - I have ordered a Premier for her as well but it won't arrive until May'08

Let's hope that by the next time we get a new vehicle there will be tether locations at all seats!!! You'd think car companies would want to cover their own butts and have them at all locations rather than risk someone installing their seats improperly.

Thanks everyone for your comments!!!


Installation Question: When installing my Radians I found that it is much easier to install if I recline the seat to get the seat as close to the crease as possible, tighten belts and then set the seatbacks straight up again to make sure that they are tight against the back of the carseat with no forward/backward or side to side movement...Is this ok?

[khiggins]

As you requested (Sorry I don't have their exact heights right now ...they're all sleeping, but here's height/weight estimates):

son1 almost 9 years, 90lbs, 4'6", no carseat
daughter1 7 years 41lbs, 48-50", Graco Turbobooster
son2 27 months 24lbs, 36"?, Radian Premier FFing
daughter2 12 months, 19lbs, 30" Radian Premier RFing
daughter3 12 months, 17lbs, 29" Graco Comfortsport for now - I have ordered a Premier for her as well but it won't arrive until May'08

Let's hope that by the next time we get a new vehicle there will be tether locations at all seats!!! You'd think car companies would want to cover their own butts and have them at all locations rather than risk someone installing their seats improperly.

Installation Question: When installing my Radians I found that it is much easier to install if I recline the seat to get the seat as close to the crease as possible, tighten belts and then set the seatbacks straight up again to make sure that they are tight against the back of the carseat with no forward/backward or side to side movement...Is this ok?

I'm wondering why you want to FF your youngest two? They might be a year old, but they are still TOOOOOOOO small to FF, IMO. Radians RF until 33/35lbs depending on the DOM, and I'd be hesitant to FF them before that. I'd keep them in the capt's chairs for a while RF.

[CDNTech]

Installation Question: When installing my Radians I found that it is much easier to install if I recline the seat to get the seat as close to the crease as possible, tighten belts and then set the seatbacks straight up again to make sure that they are tight against the back of the carseat with no forward/backward or side to side movement...Is this ok?

Yes, this is a good trick and works for a lot of people. :)

Previous posters are correct. One year old is the minimum that you want to forward face your children. It is our recommendation to rear face to the limits of the seat... in this case, 30lbs. Your kids will *not* outgrow this seat in height before they hit 30lbs. Ignore the stated height limits in the manual, they are guidelines. The rule you need to follow is... top of the head less than one inch from the top of the shell. Once they pass this point a seat is outgrown *rear* facing.

I really encourage parents to aim for 2 years old or 30lbs, whichever comes first. Children that are forward facing before the age of 2 are 4 - 5 times more likely to be injured in a collision.

Your children also *must* be a minimum of 22lbs before they can use the Radian's (or any seat on the Canadian market) forward facing.

I think the easiest way to get your kids in/out of the van would be the following...

9 year old driver's side captain's chair
7 year old driver's side 3rd row outboard position in TB
2 year old FFing center 3rd row position
1 year old rear facing Radian passenger side outboard position
1 year old rear facing Radian/ComfortSport passenger side Captain's Chair

Remove the headrest on the 3rd row center position. The Radian will install better forward facing without the headrest there. The rearfacing Radian in the third row is going to intrude slightly on the 2nd row captain's chair. You can tether the rear facing third row Radian to the captain's chair's tether anchor in front of it.

Once you have your 3rd Radian you can put that in the passenger's side captain's chair and tether it using the location provided in the link I posted in my previous thread. Do *not* tether the Comfort Sport rear facing... only the Radian (and Marathon) are allowed to be tethered rear facing.

Then you can access the third row easily from the driver's side...
Rearfacing 1 year old and 2 year old hop in first. Climb in behind and buckle up both those kids. Climb out and 7 year old gets in and buckles up. Meanwhile have the 9 year old take the other 1 year old to the other side and put into their rear facing seat in the captain's chair. Flip the driver's side captain's chair back down and double check the buckling of rear facing child in captain's chair. Get in front seat while 9 year old comes around and gets in the remaining captain's chair.

This will also make it easy for school drop-off/pick-up (if you do that).

ETA: You could also rear face your two year old for longer if you choose. :)

[starrmom]

Thanks again Jen.

Just so everyone knows, my one-year olds are both still rearfacing. I would like to keep them that way for a while too.:D I only mentioned turning them around after (10kg / 22lbs) so that there would be more room for passengers entering the van. It is easier to get past the comfortsport and when it is gone and there is a another radian in that spot it will be especially difficult for adults to get in and assist with seat belts/carseats. I'm going to try your suggested arrangement Jen....ok...now for an aerobic workout:p:

[starrmom]

I am also loving the suggestion that my older son and daughter are in separate rows and positions. Hopefully this should make the car ride a lot quieter!

[starrmom]

Ok...so I tried your arrangement and I just can't get Daughter#2's Radian to fit beside the other Radian in the back.:mad: There is some sort of plastic cover for the recline hinge (I think) and it gets in the way of the plastic foot for RFing. I guess I could try switching the Comfortsport and her Radian. Do you have any other suggestions?

Just wanted to mention that I read another post under the topic "Radian in 3rd row of Grand Caravan??" in which you participated Jen...sounded similar to my situation.

[CDNTech]

I'm going to put M down for a nap in the next half hour and then I'll go out to my van and play... it's an '08, but the third row set up is the same as the '06's.

I'll post later on with what I can figure out. :)

Any chance you have a link to the thread so I can refresh my memory on what was said?

[starrmom]

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=19916&highlight=Radian+Grand+Caravan

[CDNTech]

Okay... I see what you mean... it does not install nicely rear facing in that passenger outboard position.

I'm racking my brain trying to figure out the best solution for you.

Does the ComfortSport fit back there in that outboard position? It 'looks' like the space would fit the ComfortSport. I know Mikkel fit in it rear facing until he was almost 2 years old. If the ComfortSport works rear facing, then you could use that seat until it's outgrown rear facing and then switch to the Radian forward facing. I think that would be your best bet for ease of getting kids in/out.

There is also not a lot of room in the remaining outboard position (I could just barely fit my Parkway there), so you may need to put the 9 year old in the back and the TB in the captain's chair.

So...
RFing ComfortSport, FFing Radian, 9 year old (or TB if it fits)
RFing Radian, TB (or 9 yo if the TB fits in the back)
Passenger, Driver

Then when the ComfortSport is outgrown rear facing...
9 yo, FFing Radian, 7yo
FFing Radian, FFing Radian
Passenger, Driver

Not the easiest time getting people in/out, but I think it's the easiest way given the amount of people and location of your tethers.

If the extended rearfacing is something you want to do, then you could also get a Scenera for $79 (Walmart) and use that until it's outgrown. By that time, the 2yo should be out of his Radian and it could be passed down to the twin in the Scenera.

Actually, the more I think about... I would return the Radian that's on order and use the ComfortSport (for the smallest twin) until it's outgrown rear facing. Then if you want to continue rear facing at that time get a Scenera (unless there's something better on the market) and use that rear facing and then forward facing until it's outgrown. It should last until the smallest twin is about 4 years old, which puts son2 at about 5 years old. Son2 would go into a booster and the smallest twin would get son2's Radian.

Extended rear facing (in addition to safety benefits) would also give you convenience of entering/exiting the van with all the kids in the easiest manner. :)

So that option would look like...

RFing ComfortSport/Scenera, FFing Radian, 9 yo
RFing Radian, 7yo TB
Passenger, Driver

Then when the twins go FFing...

seatbelt child, FFing Radian, TB
FFing Radian, FFing Scenera
Passenger, Driver

Then when Scenera is outgrown...

Son2 booster, FFing Radian, seatbelt child
FFing Radian, seatbelt child
Passenger, Driver

How's that for planning years in advance. :p ;) :D

[starrmom]

What about a smaller booster seat? My seven year old is quite skinny, and could fit in something that wasn't so wide across. Do you know of any? Our turbobooster is probably 5 years old (used originally for son1) so I wouldn't be opposed to replacing it. And it would make my husband sooooo happy to buy another seat after buying 3 radians in the last 6 months!:p;)

[CDNTech]

The Parkway is nice and tall and skinny. It also has no armrests to get in the way of buckling. :)

However, it was still a tight fit in the back of my '08 Grand Caravan with the FFing Radian and room for a RFing seat on the other side of it. It would still be a bit of a pain to buckle. I don't think we have any skinnier boosters in Canada.

If the TB is working, I'd leave it for now. Canada is getting the SK Monterey booster this summer and it looks *amazing*. Super tall, totally adjustable and can be LATCHed in the vehicle. You would need to use it in the captain's chair though as I'm sure it's bigger than the TB when extended out.

Info on the Monterey...
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=36006&highlight=monterey

[starrmom]

YEAH!!!!! SUCCESS!!!:D

I got the ComfortSport to fit in the back seat beside the Radian!!! Good and tight too - only moves about 1cm side to side. I needed to use a rolled up blanket at the seat crease to get it in there properly, but I always have had to with this seat when RFing. The blanket also help deal with the plastic part on the edge of the seat problem too. Tight squeeze on the other side, but the Turbobooster fits in too and daughter1 was able to undo it on her own afterschool today. I saw somewhere that the Monterey was only 15.3" across the seat, I would like to try one in my van and see if there is a difference. With or without the back. Son1 could use one as well, as he would get another 30lbs out of it, and maybe when he is done with it then it could be passed to son2. Plus some for the twins eventually...that's a lot of booster seats to come!:eek:

Just wanted to double check that the metal plate under the front passenger plate with a few different 1" holes in it is where I should be anchoring the top tether for the RFing Radian. It is about halfway under the seat, right?

[CDNTech]

YEAH!!!!! SUCCESS!!!:D

I got the ComfortSport to fit in the back seat beside the Radian!!! Good and tight too - only moves about 1cm side to side. I needed to use a rolled up blanket at the seat crease to get it in there properly, but I always have had to with this seat when RFing. The blanket also help deal with the plastic part on the edge of the seat problem too. Tight squeeze on the other side, but the Turbobooster fits in too and daughter1 was able to undo it on her own afterschool today. I saw somewhere that the Monterey was only 15.3" across the seat, I would like to try one in my van and see if there is a difference. With or without the back. Son1 could use one as well, as he would get another 30lbs out of it, and maybe when he is done with it then it could be passed to son2. That's a lot of booster seats to come!:eek:

Just wanted to double check that the metal plate under the front passenger plate with a few different 1" holes in it is where I should be anchoring the RFing Radian. It is about halfway under the seat, right?

Yes, that's right. It works really well. :) Congrats on the success!!

[starrmom]

Thanks Jen,
You have been awesome!