Problems with Marathon in Center

[indigoblossom]

ETA: the problem has been solved and pictures have been added in a comment below.


so i finally got around to calling britax and then the dealership where i purchased my car (doesn't help that i have a 2002 daewoo and that was the year that production stopped on these cars).

basically, i want my son in the center because i don't have a safe vehicle and need to control as many aspects of his safety as i can. my manual does not specifically state that i can borrow from the two outboard LATCH connectors and the vehicle does not have dedicated center LATCH connectors. so, while britax will allow "borrowing" they can't really recommend it without some sort of "okay" by the manufacturer. the manual doesn't specifically say this is "okay" and the service tech at the dealership really couldn't help me. he knew what i was talking about and was concerned but didn't have an answer.

so, because i'd prefer my son in the center, i tried the center lap belt. no dice! the LATCH bars on the marathon that the seatbelt must be under (between the carseat and the bar) prevents tightening of the belt because the seatbelt itself has a little plastic locking clip type of thing that slides once the seat is installed and the black bar intereferes. the britax rep said they cannot recommend i use a typical metal locking clip to fix this because the seat has built-in locking clips . and yeah, i love that feature but it doesn't help me if i face my child forward and need to use the center belt because the FF locking clips are only useful for shoulder belts.

so do i suck it up and put him on the outboard? that would be more convenient for me but my son's safety trumps convenience. or is this my excuse to buy a true fit?

[An Aurora]

First, you do not need locking clips of any kind on a lap belt. You can run the belt through your built-in lockoffs if you want, but you don't need it to hold the belt, and you don't need anything to lock the belt.

Second, Daewoo is made by GM, so when in doubt I would follow their rules, which I beleive do not allow the use of center LATCH.

Also, can you take a picture of your lap belt? I'm sure it's just to position the belts parallel and does not actually lock the belt, since lap belts have locking latchplates, and you probably can take that off.

[crunchierthanthou]

actually, GM allows borrowing in almost all of their vechicles. However, the LATCH manual states very specifically that you cannot use LATCH for center installs in Daewoo vehicles. You will have to use the seatbelt. Seatbelts are no less safe than lower anchors, and lapbelts are great for installing carseats. One tip for using a lapbelt is to tighten in before you buckle it. You may have to unbuckle and adjust the length a few times, but once you have it the correct length, you should be good to go and reinstalling will be a breeze.

[An Aurora]

Thanks for the correction!

[indigoblossom]

actually, GM allows borrowing in almost all of their vechicles. However, the LATCH manual states very specifically that you cannot use LATCH for center installs in Daewoo vehicles. You will have to use the seatbelt. Seatbelts are no less safe than lower anchors, and lapbelts are great for installing carseats. One tip for using a lapbelt is to tighten in before you buckle it. You may have to unbuckle and adjust the length a few times, but once you have it the correct length, you should be good to go and reinstalling will be a breeze.



i have. it was as tight as it could possibly be before connecting, it was also tightened to just where it would need to be and both times it loosened once connected but like the pp mentioned, the thing on the seatbelt that slides isn't really like a locking clip, like i described it at first, but more like a plastic clip that keeps the sections of the lap belt held together (sort of like, well, a belt. lol!) however, i cannot remove it or seperate the belt so i guess maybe one option would be to move it so that the LATCH bad doesn't slide it, thus loosening the belt. i'll have to play around with it some, it seemed pretty impossible to tighten but now that i've thought about it (with the help of these two comments) maybe it will work afterall.

[An Aurora]

...so i guess maybe one option would be to move it so that the LATCH bad doesn't slide it, thus loosening the belt.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

[indigoblossom]

First, you do not need locking clips of any kind on a lap belt. You can run the belt through your built-in lockoffs if you want, but you don't need it to hold the belt, and you don't need anything to lock the belt.

Second, Daewoo is made by GM, so when in doubt I would follow their rules, which I beleive do not allow the use of center LATCH.

Also, can you take a picture of your lap belt? I'm sure it's just to position the belts parallel and does not actually lock the belt, since lap belts have locking latchplates, and you probably can take that off.

how do you run the lap belt through the built-in locking clips when used forward facing? the manual doesn't mention it - would i slide it through, up high, as if it were a lap-shoulder belt? that doesn't seem right and i'm confused. the built-in lockoffs on britax don't seem to accommodate lap belts when forward facing, that's my issue. am i incorrect?

also, i know i don't need a locking clip or anything to "lock" the seatbelt, and actually my seatbelt will stay tight enough but it's the fact that the plastic piece on my center seatbelt that holds the straps together, like you mentioned, slides once installed because of the latch bar so i thought if i used a locking clip higher up on the belt, it would keep it from becoming loose BUT maybe i can just move (or remove, though i don't think so) the plastic thing on the seatbelt. off to play with it...thanks for the suggestions.

[crunchierthanthou]

are you saying the lapbelt is loosening? If so, all you need to do is buckle it backward. By flipping it one half turn (180 degrees), it helps align the belt portions and allows the locking latchplate to function properly. Here's a picture of how it works-

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z157/crunchierthanthou/lockinglatchplate.jpg


edit: so it's forward facing? you skip the built on lock-offs. you can use them on lapbelts rf, but they are only for shoulder belts ff. Also, be sure you are routing the lapbelt under the LATCH bars ff. You only route over the LATCH bars ff with a l/s belt.

If the seatbelt is staying tight and it's just the plastic clip holding the tail in place that moves, you really don't need to do anything. That's simply cosmetic and doesn't matter as long as the seat moves less than 1" in any direction at the beltpath.

[An Aurora]

how do you run the lap belt through the built-in locking clips when used forward facing? the manual doesn't mention it - would i slide it through, up high, as if it were a lap-shoulder belt? that doesn't seem right and i'm confused. the built-in lockoffs on britax don't seem to accommodate lap belts when forward facing, that's my issue. am i incorrect?

No, you're right, but they did it that way because you don't need lockoffs on lap-only belts. I had mentioned using the lockoffs because I assumed you were installing it RF, as I thought your DC was quite young (his legs look young lol).

also, i know i don't need a locking clip or anything to "lock" the seatbelt, and actually my seatbelt will stay tight enough but it's the fact that the plastic piece on my center seatbelt that holds the straps together, like you mentioned, slides once installed because of the latch bar so i thought if i used a locking clip higher up on the belt, it would keep it from becoming loose BUT maybe i can just move (or remove, though i don't think so) the plastic thing on the seatbelt. off to play with it...thanks for the suggestions.

If it holds the belt tight, I wouldn't worry about it. I definitely would not use a locking clip. Can't use just slide the plastic part out of the way of the LATCH bar?

[indigoblossom]

Can you clarify what you mean by this?




the lap belt has a plastic clip, that holds the end of the seatbelt parallel to the rest of the seatbelt, like you described. when threaded through the back of my marathon, in between the LATCH bar and the carseat, as specified in the manual, the LATCH bar pushes on the plastic thing, causing it to slide and effectively loosening the belt. does that make sense? i can take a picture like you suggested :)

[An Aurora]

Pictures would help :)

[crunchierthanthou]

the lap belt has a plastic clip, that holds the end of the seatbelt parallel to the rest of the seatbelt, like you described. when threaded through the back of my marathon, in between the LATCH bar and the carseat, as specified in the manual, the LATCH bar pushes on the plastic thing, causing it to slide and effectively loosening the belt. does that make sense? i can take a picture like you suggested :)

that plastic clip should just be cosmetic. buckling the lapbelt backward like I mentioned above should keep it tight, even if that clip holding the tail in place moves.

[indigoblossom]

are you saying the lapbelt is loosening? If so, all you need to do is buckle it backward. By flipping it one half turn (180 degrees), it helps align the belt portions and allows the locking latchplate to function properly. Here's a picture of how it works-

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z157/crunchierthanthou/lockinglatchplate.jpg


edit: so it's forward facing? you skip the built on lock-offs. you can use them on lapbelts rf, but they are only for shoulder belts ff. Also, be sure you are routing the lapbelt under the LATCH bars ff. You only route over the LATCH bars ff with a l/s belt.

If the seatbelt is staying tight and it's just the plastic clip holding the tail in place that moves, you really don't need to do anything. That's simply cosmetic and doesn't matter as long as the seat moves less than 1" in any direction at the beltpath.



hrm, that picture is helpful - may have to see if i can make any difference there. yeah, my son is not little by any stretch of the imagination...weighing now more than 30lbs and about 37" tall. that picture in my avatar isn't even that old. lol! he is ridiculously uncomfortable RF, even though i know taller kids that can handle it - he just won't...he pushes the backseat which then causes the head of his carseat to push on the driver and passenger seat and ugh! anyway, once the seatbelt becomes loose it wiggles WAY more than 1" i mean, it's LOOSE. i wonder if daewoos are so cheap that they don't have self-locking center belts? i know that probably sounds ridiculous but i don't understand how the plastic clip sliding makes effects the length of the seatbelt so much. or maybe the LATCH bar is actually moving the seatbelt. argh! now i have to definitely go mess around with this and i will take pics but it will be a while before i upload them as i have to go to my moms.

as far as routing the seatbelt under the LATCH bar - yes, that's what i'm doing. that's the problem. with the seatbelt between the bar and the seat, it becomes loose. i feel like i've said that a bunch of times already. lol!

[crunchierthanthou]

as far as routing the seatbelt under the LATCH bar - yes, that's what i'm doing. that's the problem. with the seatbelt between the bar and the seat, it becomes loose. i feel like i've said that a bunch of times already. lol!

yeah, buckle it backward (I feel like I've said that a bunch of times already ;) ). It may also help to twist the buckle stalk (short piece of webbing connecting the female end of the buckle to the vehicle frame). You can twist it up to three full twists (360 degrees each). Twisting it will move the buckle lower and may make it so the latchplate isn't pushing against the edge of the shell or the LATCH bar. I'll bet that pressure is contributing to the loose belt more than the plastic clip moving. You can both flip the male end and twist the buckle stalk at the same time.

[indigoblossom]

oh, i may have to twist the female end of the buckle, too because i flipped the seatbelt and solved the problem. yay!

it really had nothing to do with the plastic thing - i guess because i was rushed when trying to install it with the lap belt the first time i hadn't realized how the angle of the male part is what caused the belt to loosen and it may actually occur whether or not the LATCH bar was touching it because when the seatbelt isn't twisted but the male portion is facing downward (as necessary to buckle it) it moves freely :eek:

so i turned it and sort of feared that the pressure caused by the twist and the super taut fit i acheived would be bad but if i could twist the female side that might allow the buckle to come down further and not rest with resistance under the LATCH bar.

downside: i realized my marathon, which had been installed int he recline position this whole time, does not stay upright. i'm sure it was shipped in the upright position, right? and i'm pretty sure i played around with it when i got it and decided to recline it which means it was upright to begin with but now it doesn't "click" into place and reverts to the recline after i squeeze the lever and adjust into the upright position. nothing is stuck or preventing it from staying in place that i can see so i guess i have to call britax and see if they'e any suggestions for me.


OH and i do have pics...i'll post them when i get home even though i'm pretty sure the problem is solved. with the installation - now, of course, i fear that i have a faulty seat :confused:

[An Aurora]

It sounds like you do have a faulty seat, if it does not "click" into place. Definitely call Britax.

[indigoblossom]

It sounds like you do have a faulty seat, if it does not "click" into place. Definitely call Britax.

argh! i forgot to call them yesterday (we weren't travelling in the car with that carseat) and they closed early today. i've been dealing with contractors all morning and just not got around to calling. oh well - first thing monday morning. now to get those seatbelt pics ;)

[indigoblossom]

the problem has been solved (and a new seat from britax is on the way!) but i'll post these pictures anyhow, because i said i would and because they might be helpful for someone else some day...

this is my thin, center seat belt...if it weren't so thin i'm not sure how it would fit under the LATCH bar, but maybe they're all made this way now?
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/crunchyresale/carseat004.jpg

this is the "locking position" of my seatbelt. when turned downward at a 90 degree angle (which is the position it assumes when securing the carseat) it is unlocked and the seatbelt loosens with ease.
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/crunchyresale/carseat002.jpg

this is the black plastic thing that i mentioned A LOT previously that was of no importance. i moved it lower down on the seatbelt and it was no big deal. i only photographed it because i talked about it so much. lol!
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/crunchyresale/carseat003.jpg

here is the seatbelt installed with a slight twist, so that the black peice that says "center" is not facing outward but towards the carseat. now it remains locked or is unable to become loose.
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/crunchyresale/carseat005.jpg

this is where that slight twist begins and the seatbelt lays flat behind the carseat throughout.
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/crunchyresale/carseat006.jpg

and the only thing still concerning me is how much resistance and pressure the buckle is exerting on the LATCH bar, which may be better seen in this picture.
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/crunchyresale/carseat007.jpg
it's not just resting on it, but it is wedged in a way that i had to force it to lay flat against the carseat. i don't know why it bothers me exactly, but it does.

[joolsplus3]

How about twisting the buckle stalk down? The 'female/short/buckle' side can be twisted up to three full twists to make it shorter so that the latchplate isn't pusing on the latchbar.

[skaterbabscpst]

If he's RF you do NOT have to route the lap belt under the LATCH bars. It is required FF though.

[indigoblossom]

If he's RF you do NOT have to route the lap belt under the LATCH bars. It is required FF though.

it is mentioned in the original post that my son is no longer RF ;)

[indigoblossom]

How about twisting the buckle stalk down? The 'female/short/buckle' side can be twisted up to three full twists to make it shorter so that the latchplate isn't pusing on the latchbar.


i tried that after someone mentioned it in this or a different thread.

i wasn't happy with the results. when i thought the seat was secured tightly enough, the seatbelt actually popped out. this car makes me more and more nervous, daily, it seems.

when i made it slightly looser so there wasn't so much pressure on the belt mechanism, the seat was too wobbly and moved more than an 1"

i may try it again, as that was the last thing i tried and the constant rethreading, and removing of the buckle from under the LATCH bar was not only frustrating but also hurting my wrist.

[skaterbabscpst]

it is mentioned in the original post that my son is no longer RF ;)

:thumbsup:

[An Aurora]

Twising the female buckle should not cause the belt to 'pop out.' I'm not sure what was going on there. I would twist the female buckle to get that out of the way, although putting pressure on the LATCH bar really won't be a problem, since the LATCH bar itself can lift up, so putting pressure on it would just cause it to lift, not bend or warp or anything.

[indigoblossom]

Twising the female buckle should not cause the belt to 'pop out.' I'm not sure what was going on there. I would twist the female buckle to get that out of the way, although putting pressure on the LATCH bar really won't be a problem, since the LATCH bar itself can lift up, so putting pressure on it would just cause it to lift, not bend or warp or anything.


yeah, my car worries me more and more because the seatbelt popped out not once, but two or three times when i was trying to figure out how to get a tight fit with the female part twisted. then i lengthened the seatbelt a bit more but it was too loose. i think it resting on the LATCH bar like it does is my only happy medium :)