Toronto/GTA Tech?

[mommy_quigg]

Is anyone a tech that lives in GTA? Or anyone know where I can find one? Preferably not downtown because DH refuses to drive down there and I don't drive.

I am really having a hard time installing DS' Radian in our Aztek using the seatbelt. I think I finally got it in on the driver's side, but I'm not confident. :mad: I'd like to have someone take a look at it in person.

[hipmaman]

I'm in Oakville and there are SJA clinics in Mississauga where I volunteer. Is that close enough or where about are you? Admittedly, I've not done an RN in an Aztek before :)

[Mara1973]

Where abouts are you...This is prime clinic season, so perhaps we can get you a clinic in the area. Our next open durham one is May 7, although there is an appt only install on March 20, which I think is likely filled already.

What are your install concerns. Maybe you can post those concerns with some photos of the belt stalks and other angles and maybe we can help you out that way.

I own 4 Radians and have installed in a few vehicles, but not tons since it is not a common seat to have people come in with.

Mara :)

[mommy_quigg]

I live in Markham, just north of Toronto.

The best install I got was on the driver's side. I twisted the buckle stalk 1.5 full turns. It seems to be in tight enough, but I'm not confident because the buckle does appear to be right on the edge of the belt path. So I worry that even though it seems secure, it might not truly be and I don't know how to test that other than moving it around.

When installed with LATCH, it does not move AT ALL and shakes my vehicle when I try to shake the car seat. Installed the way it is, I get around 1" of movement which seems huge when going from zero movement at all.

I just need to stop feeding him and put him in the car naked so he can stay installed with the LATCH. (JUST KIDDING!)

Here's some pictures.

Driver's side:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/DSC072781.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/Dsc07282.jpg

Top tether in the middle sliding through split in seatbacks:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/Dsc07207.jpg

Top tether installed over the driver's side seatback:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/Dsc07210.jpg

It easily slips off and down into the split, leaving slack:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/Dsc07214.jpg

The right side was just impossible to tighten. This is with 1.5 twists, it easily moved out of position.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/Dsc072601.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/Dsc072641.jpg

If I could I'd just go buy a Marathon I would, I'm so frustrated with this.

[Mara1973]

Hmmm, ok. The installs were pretty different on the two sides. You likely could have gotten the same install on the passenger side had you pushed it back towards the seat bight there as well. Regardless of that, you may be able to get it tighter. You can put 3 full twists in that female end if you are able to turn it any more. Get that really in tight and that tether needs to come over the top of the seat. If everything is tightened right, it should not be pulling off to the side.

So try this, add another twist to the female end, and tighten pretty tight, pull the tether over the back of the seat, right in the middle and attach it secure, pull it REALLY tight. Then kneel and put your weight into the car seat and slightly rock back and forth while pulling out another inch or two of slack from the seatbelt.

And, there is a clinic in Richmond Hill on March 29th that might work for you...I would get there early so you don't have to wait too long.

March 29, 2008 - 191 Major Mackenzie Drive West ñ RICHMOND HILL - Hosted by Richmond Hill Fire Department (West of Yonge Street across from York Regional Police Station)
Clinics run between 10:00am - 2:00pm. It is First Come/First Serve, please note it takes approximately 1/2 hour per seat, and there may be a wait to have your car seat checked. Therefore you may want to bring snacks and drinks for your child(ren).

Mara :)

[hipmaman]

Try to push the RN against the seatback/seat bight more. Can you recline the vehicle's seat a bit more to get the RN flush?

[Jewels]

Do you have the FF front foot down? I fing that helps in installing it FF.

Also, here are some Radian install tips for forward of the bite seatbelts (http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=28939).

[mommy_quigg]

Reclining the foot made it much worse, easier for it to slide forward. The recline on the seatbacks matched the angle of the Radian, and I had it pushed back as far as I could get it to go. *I* can't get the buckles to twist any further. Maybe someone stronger than I can do it.

I work Saturdays but I'll ask if I can have that day off.

[Kashi]

One thing that I found helped with our Radian installs is to push the seat DOWN, not back into the seatback, when installing it.

[mommy_quigg]

I can understand that would help with forward of the bight buckles, but mine are just too long. So pushing down instead of back and down I don't think will make a difference. I will try it though just in case it does help.

Just to clarify, I'm trying to install it with the seatbelt before he reaches 40 lbs. Am I correct in that I can't use LATCH after that? My vehicle's manual doesn't say anything about limits. I asked on here once but I can't remember what was said, just that my final decision was that I would switch it at 40 lbs. I don't remember if I HAVE to or if I just decided just because I still wasn't sure, that I would go ahead and switch it.

[snowbird25ca]

Just to clarify, I'm trying to install it with the seatbelt before he reaches 40 lbs. Am I correct in that I can't use LATCH after that? My vehicle's manual doesn't say anything about limits. I asked on here once but I can't remember what was said, just that my final decision was that I would switch it at 40 lbs. I don't remember if I HAVE to or if I just decided just because I still wasn't sure, that I would go ahead and switch it.

Aztek is pontiac? I believe Pontiac follows GM which would be 48lbs. What year is your vehicle?

The biggest trick with the radian is to start with the base 1.5" or so away from the seat bite, then push down on it while tightening it. One other thing to do, is to tighten as far as you can, then unbuckle and let the seatbelt go into the retractor a click or two, then rebuckle.

This is how the latch plate is on the radian in my center seating position of my truck.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3234/2311492171_8989d82766.jpg

And overall side view showing how the base isn't exactly up against the seat bite - normal for the radian due to the shape of it. :thumbsup:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2335/2311491685_b7a5ddc63e.jpg

I have fixed metal buckle stalks in my truck, but they do move forward and back slightly, so forward of the bite isn't as much as issue as it looks like you're dealing with.

My suggestions would be to try and get an extra turn - or even just a half turn in the buckle stalk. Then do the install like this:


Position radian so that the base is slightly out from the seat bite - as in 1 to 2".
Thread seatbelt through beltpath and buckle
Climb into the seat at this point, with your tummy facing the back of the seat.
Check on the side of the seat opposite the buckle that the seatbelt is snug against the radian - you may want to pull the back flap forward and tug the lap section towards the buckle.
pull on the shoulder portion of the belt immediately above the latch plate. Pull slightly out as well as up, but don't pull directly towards the carseat yet - this will prevent premature bunching in the latch plate
Once you've tightened as much as possible that way, then pull in towards the carseat itself.
hold the shoulder belt taut, and engage the locking retractor by pulling the seatbelt all the way out of the retractor. Feed all the excess into the retractor - peek inside the flap to make sure the shoulder portion hasn't gotten caught under the edge of the foam.
Do your first check for movement - observe the side opposite the buckle when you check for movement, just in case the lap portion where it's anchored to the vehicle seat is sliding behind the back of the radian. If that's happening, you'll want to place it there right from the start when you buckle the belt. ;)
At this point if you still have more than 1" of movement you'll want to do the unbuckle - feed 1 to 2 clicks into retractor - rebuckle trick. When you go to do this, it's going to be really hard to rebuckle the seatbelt. You'll probably need one person to hold the buckle for you and help maneuver the latchplate, while you kneel in the seat. I find leaning in the seat towards the buckle does help with re-buckling.

When you unbuckle, make sure that the latchplate itself is actually sliding a little bit down to shorten the lap portion - if the seatbelt has bunched in the latchplate, you'll need to unbunch it in order to slide it down a little further, then rebuckle it. If you repeat the process a few times, you should be able to get it in tightly.

As for that middle position and the top tether sliding down, I think that pretty much any carseat aside from a britax (because of the V shape at the top,) is going to do that, and I'd be hesitant to install a ff'ing seat in that position. (It's 50/50 split from the looks of it? with TA almost directly behind the split?)


HTH some - the description sounds kind of confusing, but once you actually go to do it, it's not as hard as it sounds and it makes sense when you actually are in the seat doing it. :thumbsup:

One other trick I've used in my truck is to slide the seat forward slightly, tighten the seatbelt with it in that position, unbuckle the seatbelt, push the seat towards the seatbite, then rebuckle it. In my truck more slack comes out of the seatbelt when the seat is further away from the seatbite - I'm not sure if that's universal in all vehicles though or if it's dependent on the slope of the vehicle seats.

[mommy_quigg]

My seatbelts "lock" at the latchplate. I tried pulling the shoulder belt out all the way and it doesn't lock there. Can I still use that trick somehow?

I tried to do 2 full twists but it kept untwisting so it was like 1.75 twists. These are of the centre position but it does the same thing in all 3 seating positions.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/DSC071961.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/DSC072041.jpg

Yes, my seat backs are a 50/50 split. The tether is a little to the driver's side. My AOE I could tether over the seatback and it stayed, but I think the top tether came out higher up on the shell than the Radian does. So the AOE the tether went straight out from the shell and over the seat as opposed to the Radian which comes out from the shell, goes up and over the seatback.

I have a 2001 Pontiac Aztek. The dealership we got it from is GM so yeah, I guess it's the same. So I can keep it with LATCH until 48 lbs? I don't have to stress so much about it then yet.

[snowbird25ca]

Is it just the middle seatbelt that has that latchplate? From looking at the previous photos it looked like a sliding latchplate. :confused:

Is your middle belt a lap/shoulder or a lap only? Or is it a lap only belt with a shoulder portion that comes down and can be clipped on to the lap only portion? (I can't tell from the picture if I'm seeing a tail into the belt path or just the shoulder portion? And am a bit confused by the open latch plate at the top - as if something could clip on to it?)

With the locking latchplate I would do 2 things - I'd get that extra half twist in there, and then I'd slide the carseat so that it's right against the buckle so that when the seatbelt is tightened, it can't untwist - with enough tension on it and the side of the carseat it shouldn't be able to untwist.

The other thing you can do, is treat it like a lap only belt even if it's a lap shoulder belt - unbuckle it, then shorten the lap portion slightly, then rebuckle it. How you shorten the lap portion will depend on if it's lap/shoulder with a locking latch plate, or just a lap belt - lap belt just pull on the tail, lap shoulder slide the latchplate along the belt to shorten the lap section.

As for the tether, since you can slide the tether along that mini V, I'd slide it slightly towards the drivers side of the vehicle, so that the V is pulling up on an angle and the actual tightening latchplate is coming up from the seat on the drivers half before tightening it. Maybe that will fix that problem?

Looking at the first pictures, your outboard seats look like they have sliding latchplates and if that's the case then they lock at the retractor like I initially described. So which trick works where will depend on what seating location you're using. Try pulling the seatbelt all the way out in the outboard seating locations, then letting a tiny bit back into the retractor, then pulling again. It's not uncommon for manufacturers to use a different type of latch plate outboard than they do in the center. The other thing, is sometimes it seems like all the belt is out from the retractor, but some belts lock really easy so if you pull out too fast it locks from that & the belt itself isn't actually pulled out all the way. So for the outboard positions anyways, double check that. You definitely have a locking latch plate in the pictures in your most recent post, and I can see how with the long buckle stalks it could be that the latch plate is slipping and the belt is lengthening when you check for movement - with locking latch plates if the belts aren't parallel, then the latch plate will sometimes slide. If this is happening with your install - and it might be looking at how the latch plate is just below the edge of the belt path, then tighten the seat up as much as possible, unbuckle the belt and flip the latchplate a half turn, then rebuckle it - and then check for movement. If you have too much movement, unbuckle it and shorten the lap portion, then rebuckle it making sure you're still keeping that half flip.

It could be that you're having 2 separate problems depending on if you're trying center or outboard, since you have the locking latchplate in the center and sliding latchplates with a switchable retractor outboard. (At least that's what it looks like from the first set of pic's you posted. ;))

[mommy_quigg]

Is it just the middle seatbelt that has that latchplate? From looking at the previous photos it looked like a sliding latchplate.
The outboard belts lock at the latchplate. I tried what you described and it locks when pulled fast (and then releases when it goes back) but when pulled slowly all the way to the end, it retracts after letting go.

Is your middle belt a lap/shoulder or a lap only? Or is it a lap only belt with a shoulder portion that comes down and can be clipped on to the lap only portion? (I can't tell from the picture if I'm seeing a tail into the belt path or just the shoulder portion? And am a bit confused by the open latch plate at the top - as if something could clip on to it?)
The middle belt is a lap belt with a shoulder belt that comes down from the ceiling and clips into the slot you see on the buckle. So it can be used as a lap or lap/shoulder belt.

With the locking latchplate I would do 2 things - I'd get that extra half twist in there, and then I'd slide the carseat so that it's right against the buckle so that when the seatbelt is tightened, it can't untwist - with enough tension on it and the side of the carseat it shouldn't be able to untwist.
I will try this soon... I've pulled somthing in my neck and can barely move my head or left arm so I'm not able to play around with it today.

The other thing you can do, is treat it like a lap only belt even if it's a lap shoulder belt - unbuckle it, then shorten the lap portion slightly, then rebuckle it. How you shorten the lap portion will depend on if it's lap/shoulder with a locking latch plate, or just a lap belt - lap belt just pull on the tail, lap shoulder slide the latchplate along the belt to shorten the lap section.
The buckle has to be at a certain angle or it releases so that would be tricky, if even possible. I will attempt it though.

As for the tether, since you can slide the tether along that mini V, I'd slide it slightly towards the drivers side of the vehicle, so that the V is pulling up on an angle and the actual tightening latchplate is coming up from the seat on the drivers half before tightening it. Maybe that will fix that problem?
That's what is pictured above so no, it doesn't fix it :(

If this is happening with your install - and it might be looking at how the latch plate is just below the edge of the belt path, then tighten the seat up as much as possible, unbuckle the belt and flip the latchplate a half turn, then rebuckle it - and then check for movement. If you have too much movement, unbuckle it and shorten the lap portion, then rebuckle it making sure you're still keeping that half flip.
I will try this too.

Thank you so much for your help Trudy. DH agreed to take me to the seat check so I just called and got the day off work. Thanks for telling me about it Mara.

[snowbird25ca]

The outboard belts lock at the latchplate. I tried what you described and it locks when pulled fast (and then releases when it goes back) but when pulled slowly all the way to the end, it retracts after letting go.

Thank you so much for your help Trudy. DH agreed to take me to the seat check so I just called and got the day off work. Thanks for telling me about it Mara.

Would you mind taking a picture of your latch plate from the front and back with the lap shoulder portion stretched straight for me? And would it be ok for me to use that picture in something another member & I are working on? Looking closer at the first sets of pictures I can see that the latchplate is wider on the bottom and I don't think I've encountered that style of lightweight locking latchplates yet. From the side when buckled, it totally looks like a sliding latchplate, so that pic would be helpful to have.

One other thing, did you let it partially retract, then try pulling on it again? With switchable belts, once they go all the way back into the retractor they switch back to emergency mode - but if they only go back in a tiny bit and you pull on it, then it would be locked. Sometimes manufacturers will put switchable retractors in in addition to locking latchplates. GM has been doing this recently, but I'm not sure when they started doing it.

Glad to hear that your dh has agreed to get you in to the carseat clinic. It's so hard to trouble shoot when you can't physically see the vehicle and get your hands in there and try. LOL.

Oh, I just thought of something else - is the tether sliding off because you're checking and tugging sideways, or if you pull forward on the top of the carseat does it do the same thing? Maybe the problem is seeming worse than it is if it only does it when the problem is purposefully checked for? :shrug-shoulders:

I hope your feeling better soon. Pulled muscles are no fun. :(

[Jewels]

I have installed my Radian in a Rendezvous in the middle and the seatbelt looks just like that (your middle belt) and I didn't have any problems with angle and it unlocking. It is esentially a lap belt that has the shoulder portion that comes down and attaches to the lap belt. Also, it was leather seats it was installed on, I had the front foot down, tethered on 40/60 split seats (I think) with the buckle stalk twisted 1-2x (but the stalk wasn't overly long).

When you buckle it (after twisting the stalk) are you opening up the slit in the cover that is velcro'd to tighten the belt? I find that if I try to tighten either on the shoulder belt portion or by pulling on the tail of the lap belt threaded through the belt path that I just can't get it tight enough.

I see you tried to twist the stalk 2 times but it untwisted a bit, can you twist it a bit more so that when it untwists it will be closer to 2 twists and sitting flatter? If you moved the seat a bit closer to the buckle stalk that may help in preventing it from untwisting. Also it might make it a bit easier to twist if you had someone to help you.

Glad you're going to see a tech to get it checked.

[mommy_quigg]

Trudy, I'll take pictures for you.
I pulled the seatbelt out all the way and let it go back a little bit at a time and it never locked.
Hmm... the tether slid over when I pushed on it to check. Should I try pulling the seat forward to check it to see if it slides? What is the proper way to check that?

Jewels:
I have installed my Radian in a Rendezvous in the middle and the seatbelt looks just like that (your middle belt) and I didn't have any problems with angle and it unlocking.
Sorry I'm not very clear. The outboard belts are the ones that have the problems with the angles. The centre lap belt is fine.

When you buckle it (after twisting the stalk) are you opening up the slit in the cover that is velcro'd to tighten the belt?
Yes I am. :thumbsup:

Is there a reason that you aren't twisting the stalk more then 1.5x's?
Yes. I went into it in detail above. Basically I'm not strong enough.

[Jewels]

Sorry I'm not very clear. The outboard belts are the ones that have the problems with the angles. The centre lap belt is fine.


Yes I am. :thumbsup:


Yes. I went into it in detail above. Basically I'm not strong enough.

Ok, for some reason I thought you were talking about the middle seatbelt :o

Good, glad you are tightening that way.

I rephrased my question, can you get someone to help you twist the buckle stalk?

Can't wait to see pictures of the latchplates.

[mommy_quigg]

2 twists is the absolute maximum *I* was able to get on my own. Maybe I can get DH to help but he tells me it's too tight (when installed with LATCH) and I'm damaging the upholstery. I'm not, I checked, and even if I was I care less about the upholstery than DS' safety. So he might just say I'm being too anal about it all. Maybe not.

I'll try moving the seat over so it's right next to the buckle and if that doesn't help I'll ask DH if he can twist it further down.

[Jewels]

How tight can you get it with the front foot down? I know you said that there was too much front to back movement but was that after the seat was completely installed with the tether attached as well? Does the tether work (not slip) any better if the seat is installed in the middle?

[mommy_quigg]

The tether only slips in the middle. The outboard seats have tethers attached to them.
Here's a picture of the back -installed with LATCH here.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/Dsc06108.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/mommy_quigg/Car%20Seat%20Info/Dsc07224.jpg
I had the foot up outboard and down in the middle.

[snowbird25ca]

Trudy, I'll take pictures for you.
I pulled the seatbelt out all the way and let it go back a little bit at a time and it never locked.
Hmm... the tether slid over when I pushed on it to check. Should I try pulling the seat forward to check it to see if it slides? What is the proper way to check that?

Thanks. I can tell looking at the pic's you have right now that it looks like a sliding latch plate but the base widens going into the buckle, so I'm guessing that it's an odd version of a locking latch plate that just looks like it's not.
Does your owner's manual go into any detail about how to use the seatbelt when installing carseats? Sometimes the manual will detail how it locks at the latch=plate and if it has any recommendations.

Does the belt seem to lengthen when you check for movement? There must be something wonky going on there... and unfortunately with locking latchplates you're not supposed to use a locking clip, so it's a matter of figuring out how to make the latchplate do it's job properly.

If the tether strap isn't slipping into the crack when you tighten it, and you can pull forward on the top of the shell without it slipping into the crack, then that would be good in my books. Since your middle belt is a more traditional locking latch plate than the outboard belts, it may be your best chance at a good install.

[mommy_quigg]

I read the child restraint section and it said nothing... I'll reread it though because it's been a few months and I might find something in a different section.

I'll play with the seatbelts some more and let you know what I learn about the latchplates.

[snowbird25ca]

I read the child restraint section and it said nothing... I'll reread it though because it's been a few months and I might find something in a different section.

I'll play with the seatbelts some more and let you know what I learn about the latchplates.

Thanks. I'm curious to see what you find out. :)

I saw your slide show you posted in the technical forum - awesome by the way, and snooped at your other pictures. :o

I'm guessing you didn't want to use the seatbelt on drivers outboard because of leg room?

Is the spacing between the seatbelt and the buckle stalk different on the passenger side compared to the driver side? It looks like you had a good install on the driver side.

I do think that if you can get a 2 full twists in to the seatbelt in the middle it'll be just that little bit of extra oomph.

I also had a thought about your latchplates - you can unbuckle it and slide it down a little bit, then hold the shoulder section perpendicular to the lap section when rebuckling. 2 person job almost definitely, but that should stop it from slipping since it will have the belts at the angle to stay locked in the latch plate. Worth a try anyways - between that and getting the buckle against the edge of the seat so it stays twisted, I'm thinking you can get it to work. :thumbsup:

[Jewels]

Nice slide show.

Just a thought, have you tried installing by LATCH and once it is in tight doing a seatbelt install (not to leave and use like this) and try to get it tight enough that way. Then undo the LATCH once you think you have it?

Just trying to think of something that might help you here ;)

[mommy_quigg]

I'm glad you liked it :) I know the Aztek is relatively rare, but certain other pontiacs (Montana for one) also have issues with the top tether anchor. I don't know how to explain it but folding the seats forward is the only way to get the tether connected to the anchor. So I thought it might help someone maybe.

And you can snoop away, that's why the folder is set to public :)

The leg room is just barely enough for him on the driver's side - that's where he is currently. DH had a heating pad on his seat which I removed now that it's warm so he can put the seat a little more upright. I also move the mapbook and stuff that was in the pocket to the other one so DS doesn't get it all dirty.

I am going to try twisting it 2 times and putting the seat right next to the buckle to hopefully keep it from untwisting like you suggested.

Jewels:
Just a thought, have you tried installing by LATCH and once it is in tight doing a seatbelt install (not to leave and use like this) and try to get it tight enough that way. Then undo the LATCH once you think you have it?
I can't picture how that would work. :confused: I would have to install the seatbelt over the LATCH and then when I removed the LATCH it would leave slack in the seatbelt.

[mommy_quigg]

I took pictures but my mom has my camera. I promise I'll get them posted sometime ;)

[mommy_quigg]

I missed the clinic because our vehical was in for repairs until Saturday afternoon. :(

Could someone tell me when the next one is? Or where to find the information for myself?

Thanks