Canadian EFTA not approved for airplane use, are any Canadian seats approved?

[Unregistered]

I just returned from vacation, flying from Manchester, NH to Orlando, Fl on Southwest with my 7 month old. Prior to leaving I had posted a question here regarding high weight limit rear facing carseats. We opted to purchase the EFTA just prior to leaving for vacation as we realized he would outgrow his infant carrier seat while we were gone. I researched online, here and read the manual and it seemed like the best choice. My husband noticed while installing the seat that the sticker read "Not approved for use in airplanes". I couldn't believe this to be true as the manual very clearly indicates that it is approved for airline use. We looked the carseat all over and it definitely said it was not approved. It did have the Transport Canada sticker ?213 on it, which I understood meant it had been tested for airplane use. Is that true?
I called Evenflo. The rep I spoke to told me the carseat it NOT approved for airplane use. I explained that the manual very clearly stated it met the FAA requirements for airplane use. At first she told me that the manual did not say that, when I insisted she checked the manual and then told me the manual is wrong. She explained that the stickers would supersede the manual. When I asked why it was not approved she explained it was because the FAA didn't test it because it is a Canadian carseat and they don't test foreign carseats. She told me it wasn't tested in Canada because airplane safety isn't a required test of transport Canada. I asked her which carseats are approved for airplane use and she told me there are none in Canada. I explained to her how frustrating this was... We were leaving immediately for our flight and had no option to purchase another carseat except an American model on our way which we then could not use in Canada. I asked her if there was any difference between the Canadian & US models, she told me she would check for me.
I called Southwest to verify their policy on carseats. The agent told me that the carseat had to be FAA approved. I explained it would be a Canadian carseat, she told me as long as it had the stickers saying it was approved it should be okay. If the flight attendants had issue with it, she told me they would be happy to gate check the seat for me. I explained that I had purchased a seat for my son and would want him safely in his carseat, not me trying to hold him. She told me not to worry, they would pad him up well with pillows and blankets so he could use the seatbelt in his seat!!!! I explained he was 7 months old and can barely sit independently and she told me that was what had worked well with her son!!! I couldn't believe it!
The Evenflo rep called me back and explained that except for the labels there is absolutely no difference between the Canadian & US models and that my seat would be safe for airplane use.
At this point, we had to leave to meet our flight. We took our manual that indicated it was approved, put our address label on the seat to cover the sticker that said it wasn't and hoped for the best. Fortunately at no point were we asked anything about the seat.
I am planning to fly Air Canada next month, their policy states the seat must bear a sticker indicating it is approved for airplane use. Any suggestions? Have you run in to this before? Thank you for your help.

[unityco]

Wow, that's one of the weirdest things I've ever heard!

Generally, when flying within Canada the CMVSS maple leaf sticker is all you need. I've travelled in this country with an Evenflo Titan, Britax Marathon and a SK Radian. The only sticker airline personnel in Canada have ever wanted to see was that CMVSS sticker, but none of my seats ever had a sticker that said they were NOT approved for aircraft use.

Evenflo really seems out to lunch on this issue. Hopefully a tech who has a better grasp of what exactly the CMVSS certification entails will chime in. I think the way you handled it was probably the best... often US airlines don't accept the CMVSS sticker and want to see the "approved for airline use" line in the manual anyway.

:thumbsdown: Evenflo!

[snowbird25ca]

CMVSS approved seats have inversion testing done in order to be certified, and as such are certified for aircraft use.

Most CDN seats don't have any stickers on them, the manual stating that the seat is certified for use on airplanes is the proof that the seat is certified for airline use. Do you mind telling me where on your seat it says not approved for airline use? I didn't closely examine the stickers on my seat, just read the manual.

I'm actually not sure that there are any seats with stickers on them, but all of our seats are certified for use in an aircraft. (except boosters)

eta: I'd have to look at my manual for the exact wording, because the wording may not be FAA wording - I believe the wording is simply "certified for use on aircraft" and that is how all CDN seats are certified so far as I udnerstand... I believe that only FMVSS seats can actually have FAA stickers, but that any CDN seat saying certified for use in aircraft meets FAA standards and can be used on the plane.

(Good for you for bringing your seat with you and being a strong advocate. :thumbsup: A lot of parents aren't aware of how important it is for babies to have their own seats on a plane.)

[Unregistered]

The sticker is on the left, down at the part that sits on the vehicle seat. It is on the top side, not the underside. It is a separate sticker just in front of the sticker with the warnings that death may occur if placed in front of an airbag, etc. The CMVSS 213 sticker is on the seat as well. The manual states on page 7 "This restraint meets FAA inversion requirements for airplane use. Airplane installation is the same as vehicle installation". Interestingly, the French instructions do no mention the FAA, only that it meets inversion requirements. Perhaps the sticker is something new that is being added to newer EFTAs, mine was manufactured in either Jan or Feb 08. The Evenflo rep told me she would have the "mistake" corrected in the manual.

I am planning to fly to the US on Air Canada next month and am wondering how to handle this. Air Canada's policy states "Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (Canada) Child restraint devices (CMVSS 213 (or 213.1)) manufactured to United States standards on or after February 26, 1985 must bear two labels:

“This child restraint system conforms to all applicable federal motor vehicles safety standards.”
“This restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft .” My car seat does not meet this criteria. Are there Canadian EFTAs out there that aren't labeled to say "not approved". I have a printout from Transport Canada's FAQ page that I carried with me on the last flight. It states that "An approved child restraint system if one that meets the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (CMVSS) 213 or 213.1. A statement of compliance label must be affixed to the restraint system indicating compliance with CMVSS 213 oe 213.1 to be accepted for use on board the aircraft. My carseat would meets these standards but I do not want to be forced to hold my baby during the flights because of a stupid sticker! The sticker is completely contradictory to the CMVSS 213 sticker. It is particularily frustrating since Evenflo tells me that there is absolutely no difference between the US and Canadian seats, as the rep put it "some get US labels and some get Canadian". I looked at the US seats while I was in Florida and it does say "approved for use in motor vehicles and aircraft".
Has anyone flown with this carseat on an Air Canada CRJ, dash 8 or airbus? Did it fit? On Southwest it was a tight fit rear facing and I'm not sure if the arm rest could have been down. Air Canada says it needs to be.
Despite these issues, otherwise the seat is great. Seems very comfortable for DS and I like how easy it is to adjust.

[hipmaman]

That's very strange. If someone can take a picture of the sticker and the "not approved for aircraft use", I'll forward and talk to Transport Canada. CMVSS 213 definitely means aircraft certified.

Very strange. I'm feeling under the weather and can't sit here long. Someone please ask our American friends that own a EFTA to see if theirs say the same thing (you know, along the line of not approved by FAA for aircraft use)

[Unregistered]

Hi, I know it is very strange. I'd send you a picture of ours, but unfortunately we replaced it with our address sticker so it wouldn't be an issue during our flight. We purchased it Feb 24 at Toys R Us in Fredericton. It was manufactured in either Jan or Feb 08. I looked at American models while in Florida and they have a sticker in the same location stating they ARE approved for airline use. Ours very definitely said NOT approved and this was very strongly supported by Evenflo. She wouldn't even believe me at first that the manual said otherwise.

[hipmaman]

First, please register on car-seat.org. Thanks.

Btw, this is usually good enough to explain the any Canadian seat with CMVSS 213 and/or 213.1 can be used on aboard an aircraft http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/CabinSafety/tips/faq2.htm

[chasemom]

I am now registered. I traveled with a copy of that TC FAQ info. My main concern is that the sticker very definitely said not approved which would imply that it is somehow not safe or didn't meet requirements, even though it has the CMVSS 213 sticker as well. As well, not sure how it would be handled by airline staff if seen.

[hipmaman]

I am now registered. I traveled with a copy of that TC FAQ info. My main concern is that the sticker very definitely said not approved which would imply that it is somehow not safe or didn't meet requirements, even though it has the CMVSS 213 sticker as well. As well, not sure how it would be handled by airline staff if seen.

From your conversation with Evenflo, since in the US, a seat is tested to get FAA certification while in Canada, CMVSS 213.X testing includes usage on an aircraft. I'm just hoping this is the case of someone in Evenflo overthinking things and just went beyond the norm in a wrong way to think that similar testing for aircraft use is necessary in Canada too.

But I need the actual wordings on the sticker and in the manual so I can talk to TC. Worse comes to worst, I'll try to go to TRU or Sears this weekend to check it out and take a couple of pictures myself, but if owners have it handy and can snap a couple of pictures that would help tremendously.

[santecno]

Contact Transport Canada = 1-800-333-0510

Tam, I'll be out tomorrow and pop in our local TRU and check out the seat there to see what it says.

[snowbird25ca]

I didn't check my own seat tonight, but checked the one at BRU, and it definitely says not approved for use on aircraft on the sticker. It's on the flat of the base. I'll have to check mine & if it's there I'll take a picture. Mine is a Dec 27/07 DOM, the one at BRU was a Jan 27/08 DOM. (ooooh, just realized they're 1 month apart. LOL)

[TechnoGranola]

I wonder if this is another case of the manufacturer not understanding TC's regulations/testing? Wouldn't surprise me at all....

[unityco]

Got a pic! This label is on the right side of the seat, close to the front on the flat area of the base that's parallel to the floor.

[hipmaman]

Got a pic! This label is on the right side of the seat, close to the front on the flat area of the base that's parallel to the floor.


Thank you. I'll prepare an email and fire it off tomorrow night or Monday morn.

[chasemom]

From your conversation with Evenflo, since in the US, a seat is tested to get FAA certification while in Canada, CMVSS 213.X testing includes usage on an aircraft. I'm just hoping this is the case of someone in Evenflo overthinking things and just went beyond the norm in a wrong way to think that similar testing for aircraft use is necessary in Canada too..

What I was told is that Transport Canada does not require aircraft testing and therefore none of Evenflo's seats are labeled as certified for airplane use . She also told me that all Evenflo seats should be labelled as not certified for use in aircraft. She also explained that the only difference between the US model (which is certified) and the Canadian model is the labelling. The Canadian model is safe to use on an airplane, just not labelled as so. Not sure why they needed to add the label it as not certified and contradict the CMVSS 213 label.


The manual states on page 7 "This restraint meets FAA Inversion requirements for airplane use. Airplane installation is the same as vehicle installation."

Thank you. I'll prepare an email and fire it off tomorrow night or Monday morn.
Thanks! I look forward to hearing the results.

[snowbird25ca]

Tam - I'm bumping this to see if you've heard anything back from TC about this?

[hipmaman]

Tam - I'm bumping this to see if you've heard anything back from TC about this?

It's with the compliance people in TC right now. I'll update as soon as I hear something.

[chasemom]

Hi,
I was hoping TC would have responded to you sooner. We fly again on next weekend. Am wondering what to do. Fly without the "not approved" label and carry the manual which states it is approved as well as the CMV213 info that states it is suitable for airline use? What would you do?? :confused::thanx!:

[Neatfreak]

Here's my take: If I imagine that I were an airline employee, I can see how it might be confusing still to bring on a carseat that it labelled one way and has passage in the manual saying something else. Even if the manual is correct, these are still two contradictory messages and I am not sure how a flight crew would be able to determine which is actually correct is in the small amount of time that they have to make a decision. Frankly, if the physical object bears a "do not use" label, that might have more sway on my decision because it's a powerful image. The sticker, silly as it is, may create a hang-up again if it's noticed.

I hope that the CMV213 label goes the distance for you instead!

[snowbird25ca]

Hi,
I was hoping TC would have responded to you sooner. We fly again on next weekend. Am wondering what to do. Fly without the "not approved" label and carry the manual which states it is approved as well as the CMV213 info that states it is suitable for airline use? What would you do?? :confused::thanx!:

I'd leave your address label over the not approved part. :whistle:

I wonder if Evenflo will have to issue replacement stickers to all owners?

[hipmaman]

I'd leave your address label over the not approved part. :whistle:

This statement must be written with invisible ink :whistle::love: 'cause I couldn't read anything :eek:;)

I wonder if Evenflo will have to issue replacement stickers to all owners?

My take is that this would not be a fast process. At the moment, TC compliance people are looking into this. If it 'violates' regulations and warrants action (and it does, imo), communication will have to ensue between TC and Evenflo to come to a satisfactory resolution. If the resolution comes down to Evenflo 'recalling' and re-issueing sticker, it would then come to that.

So it's not something I would think be resolved in a matter of days, kwim?

[snowbird25ca]

This statement must be written with invisible ink :whistle::love: 'cause I couldn't read anything :eek:;)



My take is that this would not be a fast process. At the moment, TC compliance people are looking into this. If it 'violates' regulations and warrants action (and it does, imo), communication will have to ensue between TC and Evenflo to come to a satisfactory resolution. If the resolution comes down to Evenflo 'recalling' and re-issueing sticker, it would then come to that.

So it's not something I would think be resolved in a matter of days, kwim?

Yeah, I'm thinking it'll take awhile too - even if TC did tell evenflo to do it now, they'd still have to create the stickers etc. and it'd be awhile before that all was taken care of.

(The only reason I mentioned the address label is because she'd mentioned previously that it had been placed there on a previous flight. ;))

[chasemom]

Just returned from our last trip. We flew Air Canada on 4 flights and United on 1. We had a very smooth trip. With the exception of an Air Canada flight attendant asking if we had any problems installing the seat there were absolutely no questions asked regarding the seat. I travelled with my manual, Transport Canada info and a copy of Air Canada's car seat policy just in case.
The seat fit on all planes- CRJ, A319 and A321. The seat ahead could not recline, but I assume that would be the case with most if not all rear facing seats. The arm rest had to be up. If down when installed the tightening dial was in the way, if you attempted to put it down afterwards it would not fit by the seat. Air Canada's policy states it must be down, however they really didn't even seem to note that we had a car seat once we were on the plane.
It would not fit through the Canadian x-ray machines, requiring a manual exam. One officer tried to make us take it apart, but we explained we didn't think it came apart and she was okay with that. It did fit through the US x-ray machines.
On a side note, Air Canada seems to have significantly relaxed its stroller policy. We were able to gate check our collapsible (not umbrella) stroller and have it at the end of each flight with absolutely no hassle. It would have been very impractical to try to carry baby, car seat and all the carry on gear to and from flights, not to mention through customs with the checked bags if we didn't have the car seat. It is a long walk between the various gates and customs, especially with a very active baby in arms!
Looking forward to hearing TC's reply.

[chasemom]

Just wondering if you've heard anything from Transport Canada??