Rearfacing seat for toddler?

[jheimes]

I have a 2yr. old that has become so uncomfortable in her rearfacing Radian (installed with 3 pool noodles) that I have temporarily turned her FF until I can come up with a solultion.
She is about 25-27 lbs. and 34" with a 13" torso. Does anybody have any ideas on how to keep her RF longer and comfortable? Is there a different seat that would give her more leg room? . . . Or should I just give up and leave her FF at this age and size?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[kimogilvie]

My 36" 2 year old is a Boulevard and he likes that. He sits cross-legged or with his feet on the seat but seems to like it.

[Defrost]

Does SK even allow the use of pool noodles with the Radian? What kind of vehicle are you installing it in? Are you using the base (aka "foot" or "boot")?

Do you have a picture of the seat installed RF?

[crunchierthanthou]

Are you using the rf foot? You shouldn't be using pool noodles with the Radian. It comes with an attachable base that should help acheive the proper recline angle.

I believe the Radian has about the most leg room rear facing of any convertible seat. If she's truly that uncomfortable that you feel turning her ff is the only solution, then I guess be glad that you made it past age two. Although, my 3 yo rides rf without complaint. I know many older and taller children still ride rf as well.

I see in your signature that she's ff in a SS2. Do think that she's really that uncomfortable rf or she just knows that ff is an option so puts up a fight? :confused:

[lovinwaves]

She is about 25-27 lbs. and 34" with a 13" torso. Does anybody have any ideas on how to keep her RF longer and comfortable? Is there a different seat that would give her more leg room? . . . Or should I just give up and leave her FF at this age and size?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Can you first tell us why you think she is uncomfortable? Is she complaining, or are you just thinking she is uncomfortable because of the way her legs are?

Actually the Radian gives the most rear-facing leg room of any convertible. Sounds like maybe you have the rear-facing boot off and are using pool noodles. So in that regards maybe she has less legroom than is possible.

At her age I would feel comfortable ff'ing her. She is about the size of my 3 year old. 2 years old is a great age to rf too, but don't beat yourself up for turning her ff'ing. :)

[NZ Child Restraints]

I was also going to ask what indicates that she is not comfortable in the car seat?

[jheimes]

She has been FF in the SS2 since about 1yr because I had purchased that seat on sale about 4 months before we started using it (so no longer returnable) and hadn't heard of ERF yet. We didn't have the money to buy another seat for the 2nd vehicle.
She had never complained about RF in the Radian until this last week. (she rides in both carseats daily) She had always been happy crossing her legs and could see out the back window pretty good. She had about a 2 inch growth spurt in the last month or so, so I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it. She keeps kicking at the back of the seat and fights me to get buckled in. She says she wants to stretch and pushes with all her might against the seat. She has been complaining all week and I finally turned it around just so I could get her in there, but I'm not sure I want her FF yet. I figured it was safer than not having her buckled properly with all the fighting.
I have the Radian installed in the middle of a 2000 Toyota Camry (no latch, and long belt stalks even when twisted 5 times). I had to use pool noodles in order to get a tight install. The vehicle seats are very slanted and I could not get a proper angle with the boot attached, so I made a parental decision not to use it. Even with the boot attached, I had to use 2 noodles to get the seat tight because the boot hit the seat weird, but then I couldn't acheive the proper angle for a toddler.:confused:
Maybe I could try putting the boot back on with it reclined at 45* again (like an infant) and see if that gave her more leg space).

[NZ Child Restraints]

I have the Radian installed in the middle of a 2000 Toyota Camry (no latch, and long belt stalks even when twisted 5 times). I had to use pool noodles in order to get a tight install. The vehicle seats are very slanted and I could not get a proper angle with the boot attached, so I made a parental decision not to use it. Even with the boot attached, I had to use 2 noodles to get the seat tight because the boot hit the seat weird, but then I couldn't acheive the proper angle for a toddler.:confused:
Maybe I could try putting the boot back on with it reclined at 45* again (like an infant) and see if that gave her more leg space).

The belts could be pinching her or the belts may need to be moved up one slot.

The buckle should only be twisted up to 3 times, 5 is exceedingly too many times.
The seat is not certified to be used without the foot and should not be being installed with pool noodles. Did you try to install it and push on the buttock area of the seat instead of the foot area? This also allows for more room.

[CDNTech]

You can not use pool noodles with the Radian. It's not about a parental decision in this situation. ;)

I'm not positive if you are aware, but your daughter does not have to be at a 45 degree angle. Anywhere between 30 - 45 degrees is acceptable... actually, more upright is both safer and more comfortable for older kids.

The buckle stalks can only be twisted a maximum of 3 times. The Radian also allows the buckle stalks to go fully *in* the belt path as needed, so that may be an option as well.

Does she know she can hang her legs over the sides of the seat? This is what my 2.5 year old did when he was still RFing. He was just turned FFing 3 months ago when the weather turned bad and I got lazy with not wanting to remove winter boots. He is 28lbs, 35" tall. He still had plenty of room to RF in this seat and *always* let his legs hang over the side of the seat... he still does this now that he's FFing. :D

Excuse the face, he was mad that I would not close the van door. The seat was at a 30 degree angle in the van...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1260/859135382_927fe4070c.jpg?v=0

I would be comfortable with a child that size/age FFing (clearly, since mine is ;)), but RFing is still safer, no questions. :)

[jheimes]

Thank you for all of the suggestions.;)
I am planning on going out to the garage, turning on the heater (it is about 7* here) and messing with the seat in about 15 minutes to see what I can do with it.:rolleyes:
So I shouldn't be using any pool noodles even with the foot? I am not using the noodles to acheive the angle. The boot makes the angle exactly 45 and won't let me put it more upright. Without the boot I can get a 35* angle for a toddler.:mad:
With the boot I was using the noodles to fill in the gap between the curved foot and the seat to get a tight install. The boot does not conform or slide into the crease of my seat with the way the vehicle seat is angled.
Does anybody know if you can use a pool noodle in a FF install to get it tight enough, because that is what I had to do FF also.
Please let me know so I can make fixes.
Thank you for all of the suggestions. I am going to also check the crotch strap location.

[CDNTech]

Thank you for all of the suggestions.;)
I am planning on going out to the garage, turning on the heater (it is about 7* here) and messing with the seat in about 15 minutes to see what I can do with it.:rolleyes:
So I shouldn't be using any pool noodles even with the foot? I am not using the noodles to acheive the angle. The boot makes the angle exactly 45 and won't let me put it more upright. Without the boot I can get a 35* angle for a toddler.:mad:
With the boot I was using the noodles to fill in the gap between the curved foot and the seat to get a tight install. The boot does not conform or slide into the crease of my seat with the way the vehicle seat is angled.
Does anybody know if you can use a pool noodle in a FF install to get it tight enough, because that is what I had to do FF also.
Please let me know so I can make fixes.
Thank you for all of the suggestions. I am going to also check the crotch strap location.

NO pool noodles at all when FFing.

No pool noodles at all for RFing either.

When you're installing the seat RFing, make sure you put your weight on the seat where the legs would go
(instead of the bum area)... that will help encourage a more upright install.

If you can take pictures of your install we may be able to spot ways to help you a bit easier. Have you tried the seat in both the center and outboard positions to see if one fits better than the other?

If you are going to leave the seat FFing, then check out this thread for tips on getting a good FFing install...
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=28939

[jheimes]

I see that the gap when FF is okay. So I won't need the noodle on the FF at least. I will go play with it RF. The tech that I had show me how to install it RF and FF when I bought it was not well informed. He didn't even know about the extra strap piece for the back for under 40# FF kids.

[lovinwaves]

He didn't even know about the extra strap piece for the back for under 40# FF kids.

You will use that piece (Safe-stop) for ff'ing only. Do not use it while rear-facing :)

[minismom]

Thank you for all of the suggestions.;)
I am planning on going out to the garage, turning on the heater (it is about 7* here) and messing with the seat in about 15 minutes to see what I can do with it.:rolleyes:
So I shouldn't be using any pool noodles even with the foot? I am not using the noodles to acheive the angle. The boot makes the angle exactly 45 and won't let me put it more upright. Without the boot I can get a 35* angle for a toddler.:mad:
With the boot I was using the noodles to fill in the gap between the curved foot and the seat to get a tight install. The boot does not conform or slide into the crease of my seat with the way the vehicle seat is angled.
Does anybody know if you can use a pool noodle in a FF install to get it tight enough, because that is what I had to do FF also.
Please let me know so I can make fixes.
Thank you for all of the suggestions. I am going to also check the crotch strap location.


I don't have a radian or anything, but from what I've read here the foot/45degree issue is why a lot of people don't really like using the radian RF for older kids. Basically you don't need the 45 angle but you're stuck with it cause the foot won't let you get it more upright and you can't use without the foot.

[NZ Child Restraints]

OP do you have the radian instruction manual?

[singingpond]

I see that the gap when FF is okay. So I won't need the noodle on the FF at least. I will go play with it RF. The tech that I had show me how to install it RF and FF when I bought it was not well informed. He didn't even know about the extra strap piece for the back for under 40# FF kids.

The fact that he was not familiar with the Radian when you came in is not that much of a red flag, IMO -- they are very uncommon seats in some/many areas. However, the fact that he did not become informed, by the magical method of reading the manual is definitely a red flag.

As for the noodles under the seat, this is never allowed, for safety reasons, with ANY forward facing seat. On RF seats it is more of a gray area, although the Radian is one of the relatively rare seats that doesn't allow for them RF either (according to its manual). I say it's more of a gray area, since some seats that historically didn't allow extra spacers (Snugride, for example) now allow them. I think I remember reading that Britax has also relaxed their stance on this.

Katrin

[singingpond]

Oh, one other thing about the twisting of the buckle stalk. Three full twists, i.e. three 360 degree twists is the maximum allowed. When you said you had tried five twists, that's too much if they are five full twists, but five half twists is still within the allowed limits. As others have pointed out, the seatbelt buckle is allowed to go fully into the belt path on the Radian, which may work better if the buckle stalk is really long.

Katrin

[jheimes]

I finally got out in the cold to fix her Radian. I have put it RF again with the boot and pushed on the leg portion to get an angle of 35* with no pool noodles (is that an okay angle for a 2yr old?). I am using the tether RF, removed the safestop and put in the longer crotch strap. I put her in it again and no complaints this time.:love: Maybe it was the strap? She put her legs over the sides of the seat.
The shoulder straps are even with her shoulders (is this ok for RF or do I need to go one lower?)
I also checked the strap heights in her other seats and purchased a Graco Nautilus to use for a spare (hoping will be an easier install for other people) since our spare expired in Dec. 07. I'm excited to see how it fits her.

[crunchierthanthou]

35 degrees is a great angle for a toddler, as long as her head doesn't slump when she sleeps. The more upright, the better as more of the shell behind the child will absorb more of the crash forces (up to 30 degrees, that is).

Having the harness at her shoulders is fine. In fact, at is ideal. The "or below" rule comes into play because of the incremental harness slots.

I'm glad she's seeming more comfortable. :) Were you able to get it tight with fewer twists of the buckle stalk?

[CDNTech]

:yeahthat: It sounds great. :)

Did you make sure there was less than one inch of movement AT the belt path BEFORE you tethered it? :)

[jheimes]

I checked for movement at the beltpath before I did the RF tether. It says the RF tether should be taut but not pulled to the extreme if I understood correctly. I did not want to pull it too much because then I would lose my angle. It does not budge at the beltpath. About a 1/4" movement if I grab top of leg area. Only 3 full twists of the buckle. (Stalk did not fall in a good place w/o twist, it would have bent the metal on the male belt at a 90* angle.) I was counting 1/2 twists before when I said it took 5.

[mommy_quigg]

http://www.skjp.com/media/Radian65-manual.pdf
Manual in PDF format