armrests -- functional (safety) or cosmetic ??

[singingpond]

I have been contemplating the armrests on the new Nautilus, specifically contemplating whether one might consider using the seat without them.

In general, I know that the the armrests on some boosters are functional, in that they help hold the vehicle seat belt in the right position. On the other hand, armrests on some other seats are clearly an afterthought. The AO seats come to mind as an example -- some have armrests, while the cheaper models don't -- I assume these armrests are just there because 'consumers want armrests', and that they have nothing to do with the crash performance of the seat.

On the Nautilus, it looks like the seatbelt guides, with the red color to indicate the belt path, are a permanent part of the seat base. The armrests (i.e. the parts with the cupholder, and those nice little junk storage compartments) are snapped in separately. Since crash tests in this country are only required to be conducted with frontal impact (correct me if I'm wrong), I would guess that those snap-in armrests have nothing to do with crash test performance, in either harness or booster mode.

I am thinking about the armrests for several reasons: 1) I need three-across installs, and it's possible the seat would fit better without the extra width of the armrests 2) I usually sit in an outboard seat to get DD into her RF seat in the center, and I'm sure those high armrests would make it pretty difficult for an adult to perch on the Nautilus, LOL 3) more minor, but my kids don't generally eat or drink much in the car, and I'm not sure I want to encourage the inevitable accumulation of junk and debris in those armrest compartments.

So, what are your thoughts about armrests in general, and about the Nautilus in particular? Can this type of armrest be construed as a safety feature in any way (especially with some owners reporting that they pop out of position pretty easily)?

Oh, and please don't emphasize that they are 'permanently attached' to the seat with straps. I assume that is probably for assembly guidance (although someone else suggested it might be to keep them from flying around the vehicle when they pop out during a crash.... hmmmm.... is that desirable -- loose parts flying off the seat??). I do own several pairs of scissors, and I'm not afraid to use them :rolleyes:.

Katrin

[joolsplus3]

I can't comment on removing the Nautilus armrests, I haven't seen one (though, from others' descriptions, it seems like they should be optional? the belt guides on the back are solid to the seat, right?), but some of the no armrest seats have *very* poor belt placement (darn, can't find the favorite page I have at iihs or nhtsa that shows how poor the dorel seat is in comparison to seats with better armrest/beltguides).. the Parkway is a seat with notably absent armrests, but the sidewings and contour at the bottom of the seats has the same effect of keeping the belt low on the hips/lap.

[azgirl71]

Here is the Nautilus manual (http://www.gracobaby.com/assets/pdfs/instructions/ISPC110BB_ISPC125BA.pdf). I think they are required. If they were not on the seat it would have holes exposed where they go. :twocents:

[crunchierthanthou]

It doesn't have the warning like the TB. Other Graco boosters are very clear that you must leave the armrests on, but I don't see that here. The armrests are completely different from the beltguides. The pp is right though, it'll just leave big holes on the sides.

[joolsplus3]

And just a PS...when I said they 'should' be optional, I meant, "in a perfect world they'd be optional..." or "graco should say they are optional..." , as in, theoretically they serve no purpose but holding junk, so what are they really there for, and what if I need three seats across. Anyway, didn't want anyone to think I was saying take them off...not that anyone said I said that, but just wanted to be clear :love:

[Jeanum]

I'm pretty sure Graco intends them to be left on because they're strapped to the base even when they're not assembled from what Nautilus buyers and the instruction manual have indicated.

[singingpond]

Here is the Nautilus manual (http://www.gracobaby.com/assets/pdfs/instructions/ISPC110BB_ISPC125BA.pdf). I think they are required. If they were not on the seat it would have holes exposed where they go. :twocents:

I'm pretty sure Graco intends them to be left on because they're strapped to the base even when they're not assembled from what Nautilus buyers and the instruction manual have indicated.


I've already looked at the manual, and at the photos that various Nautilus owners have posted on this site, so I know that the armrests are attached with straps, and that the instruction manual just tells you how to snap them into position. My question was more about how one might decide whether the armrests on this seat, or any seat, are a necessary part of the safety performance of the seat.

As for the Nautilus, yes I see that there would be some exposed holes on the base if the armrests are not installed, but that looks like a fairly minor aesthetic issue (although I can't be certain, not having seen this seat in person yet).

Katrin

[singingpond]

I can't comment on removing the Nautilus armrests, I haven't seen one (though, from others' descriptions, it seems like they should be optional? the belt guides on the back are solid to the seat, right?), but some of the no armrest seats have *very* poor belt placement (darn, can't find the favorite page I have at iihs or nhtsa that shows how poor the dorel seat is in comparison to seats with better armrest/beltguides).. the Parkway is a seat with notably absent armrests, but the sidewings and contour at the bottom of the seats has the same effect of keeping the belt low on the hips/lap.

It doesn't have the warning like the TB. Other Graco boosters are very clear that you must leave the armrests on, but I don't see that here. The armrests are completely different from the beltguides. The pp is right though, it'll just leave big holes on the sides.


Thanks for the comments! I know that no one here is likely to just say 'leave them off', when the manual doesn't give that as an option :). However, I know I've occasionally seen posts from techs here, where an armrest has actually been removed from a seat in order to make the seat fit better in a particular vehicle and seat configuration. I'm trying to get a better feel for how you decide that an armrest is safely removable in that situation. Some armrests (like the AO I gave as an example initially??) look pretty clearly optional; others (TurboBooster?) are clearly required for safety. How do you make the distinction (since I'm pretty sure no carseat manual out there is going to tell you to take off the armrests, even when they are purely cosmetic)?

The Nautilus looks, to me, like it's more in that optional category. If people have the armrests popping out in daily use, and/or if they are expected to pop off in a crash (someone else suggested that might be the reason for the straps), then what safety function could they be serving? Are they doing any pre-crash positioning that anyone can see? The seatbelt positioners (for booster mode) appear to be an entirely separate permanent part of the seat base.

Katrin

[jen_nah]

I agree from what I can tell it would appear they "could" be optional. I would contact Graco and ask for an answer.

[azgirl71]

I've already looked at the manual, and at the photos that various Nautilus owners have posted on this site, so I know that the armrests are attached with straps, and that the instruction manual just tells you how to snap them into position. My question was more about how one might decide whether the armrests on this seat, or any seat, are a necessary part of the safety performance of the seat.

As for the Nautilus, yes I see that there would be some exposed holes on the base if the armrests are not installed, but that looks like a fairly minor aesthetic issue (although I can't be certain, not having seen this seat in person yet).

Katrin

Yes, you just snap them in., but I woulld not recommend using the seat without them if it does not specifically say you can. I would also be very conserned about the exposed holes and fingers being caught. I would not want to put tape on my seat or ontthing else to cover the holes. :twocents:

[joolsplus3]

Thanks for the comments! I know that no one here is likely to just say 'leave them off', when the manual doesn't give that as an option :). However, I know I've occasionally seen posts from techs here, where an armrest has actually been removed from a seat in order to make the seat fit better in a particular vehicle and seat configuration. I'm trying to get a better feel for how you decide that an armrest is safely removable in that situation. Some armrests (like the AO I gave as an example initially??) look pretty clearly optional; others (TurboBooster?) are clearly required for safety. How do you make the distinction (since I'm pretty sure no carseat manual out there is going to tell you to take off the armrests, even when they are purely cosmetic)?



Katrin

You have to see the seat and how it works in person to get a feel for why the armrests might be somewhat optional. The AOE might even need them as a booster, but a few parents might want to remove them for three-across in harnessed mode (I haven't condoned that, there are so many better seats for three across...).:twocents:

[groovymom2000]

My question(somewhat on topic!) is can you leave off the cup holder, or is that attached to the armrest? It seems to poke out even more, thus really dashing my hopes of using this in a 3 across situation....

[SusanMae]

The cup holder is integrated into the armrest....so no removing it.

Maybe the armrests help with pre-crash positioning, but they might pop off in a crash---thus the strap.

Susan

[crunchierthanthou]

Maybe the armrests help with pre-crash positioning, but they might pop off in a crash---thus the strap.


maybe, but I don't think that's the case with the nautilus. They are forward of the beltpath in a way that they don't affect belt position and very few crashes would result in the seatbelt causing it to pop off. I'm not saying they won't come off, but that it won't be in the way we expect other belt positioning devices to.

Do they screw on like some other BPB armrests (as in, those in which the armrests are required)? If not, I guess that would answer the required aspect for me. I can't imagine anything that just pops in being integral to the safety mechanism. :twocents:


edit: hmmm, the go on kind of like the TB back. and we're back to ambiguity...

[Jeanum]

Are the armrests padded or potentially shock absorbing? I'm thinking in terms of side impact/general impact protection in a crash, the armrests could serve as another buffer zone between kiddo and impact with the vehicle interior or with an intruding vehicle/object, KWIM?

[SusanMae]

I haven't seen the seat in person, but the armrests appear to be hard plastic...and they would help contain the upper leg in a side impact.

I think we all should get together and start our own company and design seats. Now we just need some big financial backers.

Susan