You can't trust all FDs

[nhlbluesgirl]

My sister's SIL had her BV installed at a local FD and it was so badly installed! The 2 main things that I know of are that the seat was very loose (didn't even feel like it was buckled) and the seat was installed using the FF belt path (it was a RF install). :eek::eek: Luckily she realized that it didn't look right and had my BIL fix it. He doesn't know anything about car seats, but could tell by the instructions on the seat that the belt path was wrong. He also tightened it. :thumbsup:

What about other people that go there to get seats installed and don't know any better? Is there anything that can be done?!?! :mad:

[wendytthomas]

Ask if they're actually SafeKids certified, and if they are report them immediately. Then if they are or aren't certified, write a letter to the captain of the fire department saying when she went and who she saw (her name should be on their paperwork as well) and that she left with a potentially lethal installation. Their liability would have been all over that seat, so the captain isn't going to want that to happen.

This is why I don't trust FDs unless they prove themselves.

Wendy

[LISmama810]

Firemen are really great at putting out fires, helping people who need medical aid, dealing with hazardous materials spills, extricating people from smashed cars, etc. None of those things makes them expert (or even remotely knowledgeable) about car seats.

My DH is a fireman, and I trust him to install OUR seats, but no one else's. I was helping the sheriffs and FD with a situation the other day, and this one fireman was looking at an infant seat, going, "Wow, they make these things so you can just snap them in and out of the car now???"

Anyway. I would suggest perhaps writing a letter to the department, explaining the complexities involved with car seat safety (like, for example, the fact that to be a CPST you have to complete a specialized 40-hour course) and suggesting that the department spread the word to each station that the firemen should NOT attempt to install seats, but should instead refer people to the local SafeKids chapter/a hospital/highway patrol/safekids.org/whoever might install seats in your area. You might also mention the potential liability involved in an untrained person installing a seat wrong... You could also suggest that the department send some employees to get certified, if they don't already have them.

[mamabear]

Having my dd's seat installed at the FD is what brought me to these boards.

They installed the RA RF with the seatbelt. That was fine. They had to put a pool noodle under it to get it at a 45 degree angle. When I asked about using the tether they said they didn't know about that.:thumbsdown:

But the clincher was as I was driving home I hear a "click". I look back and the seat is now in the upright position .....Rearfacing. When he relined it he didn't make sure it was fully in that position.

I got home, re- did it and tethered it under the front seat.

Got on these boards and never looked back!!!:thumbsup:

[dluciew]

When I brought my Boulevard to get it checked (my son was 15 months at the time) the man who checked it said "you installed it pretty good but there's one problem - It's gotta be forward facing" :doh: I had to explain it to him and point it out on the sticker. Bad information.

[Judi]

At my fire dept, the cheif doesn't see the big deal on putting in car seats.

[mominabigtruck]

When I talk to people I don't tell them to go to the fire dept. Not all, but I think the majority of them that are certified only got certified because they needed a certain number of them at that particular station. I had difficulties when I went to the fire dept, but then I got their instructor who was fabulous and we spent quite a bit of time installing my seats and talking about seats in general. She said the majority of people she teaches are either old timers who don't see the point because their kids never had seats or younger people without kids at all who are only interested in the minimum.

[Judi]

A lot of stations in my area don't have CPST's at all.

[daycaremom2002]

around here, we even have to be careful of some of the instructors.....

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i313/moms_pics1/trishacarseat002.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i313/moms_pics1/trishacarseat001.jpg

This was done in my friends Suburban 3rd row when we asked them to help us get 3 seats in that row. It has VERY long buckles. We had 2 seats properly installed in those outside spots(one was expired by a week or 2 but she was already waiting for the replacement delivery). They removed them and after messing around a while said that they couldn't get a seat in that middle spot. They took out the expired seat and installed these seat like this! They had their excuses, but none of them were acceptable to me. I was very dissapointed.

I also had an experience years ago with a fireman who "checked" my seats by putting a hand on them, wiggling them, and saying they looked good. :thumbsdown:

This is exactly why I am taking the training. We really need some dedicated people around here.

[Starlight]

Holy! WTF is that???

OMG, I hope that was reported to SafeKids.

It isn't just FD's that can be screwy - obviously techs can be pretty bad too.

[Jeanum]

OMG Kristi, I remember those scary pictures of the criss-crossed seatbelt installations from when you posted your thread on ivillage a while back. Hope you can get certified and help out parents in your area.

[daycaremom2002]

I did report it, but he is still listed as an instructor on the SK site. From what I have heard though, he isn't the lead of the local coalition anymore.

Yah, I did post it on Ivillage. That was where the tech who assisted him found me and started arguing with everyone. I felt good to know that Techs agreed with me and that I wasn't nuts. That was before I found this great site. I rarely go over there anymore.

[Starlight]

WTF was he arguing about? That's obvious, blatent misuse.

[daycaremom2002]

They said the it was my friends fault that they had to install the seats like that. She is a foster mom and needs the little ones in the middle row(easier on her back), so she wanted the older kids back there. They couldn't get a belt shortening clip to help, so they installed the Futura and the Cargo back there. Instead of the FPSE and the RA that I had back there. They said that she was being unreasonable with where she wanted the kids and that if she wasn't able to properly care for them with her back problems, that she shouldn't be doing foster care.

Anyhow, the second tech got an earful from the wonderful people on Ivillage and she never came back again. I hope she learned something from that. I also hope that neither of these people are involved with my class in a couple months!! (or that she ever found this board!!))

[scatterbunny]

Kristi, have we discussed who these people are yet? :confused: If not, PM me. Actually, PM me even if we did discuss it, because I've forgotten. :p

[daycaremom2002]

PM sent.

[LISmama810]

:jaw:

[wendytthomas]

GEEZ!!! Where should we start on that one??

You don't use a belt shortening clip on those seatbelts.

I bet those stalks could have easily gone into the belt path and laid flat there.

How dare they judge her??

Wow. That takes the cake.

Wendy

[PixieEMT]

When I talk to people I don't tell them to go to the fire dept. Not all, but I think the majority of them that are certified only got certified because they needed a certain number of them at that particular station. I had difficulties when I went to the fire dept, but then I got their instructor who was fabulous and we spent quite a bit of time installing my seats and talking about seats in general. She said the majority of people she teaches are either old timers who don't see the point because their kids never had seats or younger people without kids at all who are only interested in the minimum.

:yeahthat:

I took my class at a FD that sponsored SK to come in. There were several younger guys (police and fire) that were just there b/c they were told the had to take it and they were getting paid!

Several had bad attitudes and would pick the easiest seat to install and rush through all the hands on stations! :mad:

This one police office I sat next to was a huge d*ck. I believe he was a father of 3 and had another bun in the oven. Anyway, he kept arguing with the instructors about ERF! Scenerio: A parent comes to a check point with a 1y/o baby 22lbs...what do you do? His answer: "Well the baby is 1 y/o and 22lbs, why should we tell the parents to RF them? The baby is over 1 y/o and 20lbs they can FF it....blaha blah blah! The instructors kept saying "best practice is all babies ride RF till they max out their convt seat by weight or 1inch." HE KEPT BEATING THE DEAD HORSE W/ THE STICK ALL WEEK!!!! AGGGHHHHH :soapbox: STFU!

On a better note a met a real nice PA state trooper that was super nice. He just had a baby the day before the class so he was really interested and was team player during the group activities.

The one instructor kept refering to my FPSVD during the class b/c it was the closest thing to a Britax we had. :( She kept complimenting me for keeping my DS that just had turned 1 y/o 23# RF. "Your doing the best thing for your son." I had just found out about ERF a month prior, I stumbled on the youtube stuff and cpsafety.com.
~sara

[joolsplus3]

??

You don't use a belt shortening clip on those seatbelts.

I bet those stalks could have easily gone into the belt path and laid flat there.

Wendy

We used to discuss at great length the use of BSC's on extremely long buckle stalks... it's ok, but you need a buckle stalk, oh, about that long... I bet you're right, it probably would have gone into the belt path just fine, though...

[wendytthomas]

:yeahthat:

I took my class at a FD that sponsored SK to come in. There were several younger guys (police and fire) that were just there b/c they were told the had to take it and they were getting paid!

Several had bad attitudes and would pick the easiest seat to install and rush through all the hands on stations! :mad:

This one police office I sat next to was a huge d*ck. I believe he was a father of 3 and had another bun in the oven. Anyway, he kept arguing with the instructors about ERF! Scenerio: A parent comes to a check point with a 1y/o baby 22lbs...what do you do? His answer: "Well the baby is 1 y/o and 22lbs, why should we tell the parents to RF them? The baby is over 1 y/o and 20lbs they can FF it....blaha blah blah! The instructors kept saying "best practice is all babies ride RF till they max out their convt seat by weight or 1inch." HE KEPT BEATING THE DEAD HORSE W/ THE STICK ALL WEEK!!!! AGGGHHHHH :soapbox: STFU!

On a better note a met a real nice PA state trooper that was super nice. He just had a baby the day before the class so he was really interested and was team player during the group activities.

The one instructor kept refering to my FPSVD during the class b/c it was the closest thing to a Britax we had. :( She kept complimenting me for keeping my DS that just had turned 1 y/o 23# RF. "Your doing the best thing for your son." I had just found out about ERF a month prior, I stumbled on the youtube stuff and cpsafety.com.
~sara

At least your instructors were on board with ERF. One of mine said that you should turn your kids when they start talking. They all thought I was insane for having my three year old (nearly four year old) RFing. They said I had a bad install because I used the lockoffs as well as my locking latchplate belt, so they installed it FFing on the passenger side. Morons. Better to have one classmate who's an abolute idiot than four instructors.

Wendy

[scatterbunny]

I need to find someone with long buckle stalks like that so I can practice using a BSC to shorten them. I"ll have to use a regular locking clip, but it'll only be for practice, no kids actually riding in the seat. ;)

[daycaremom2002]

We used to discuss at great length the use of BSC's on extremely long buckle stalks... it's ok, but you need a buckle stalk, oh, about that long... I bet you're right, it probably would have gone into the belt path just fine, though...

It actually went into the belt path fine. The problem was that with the Cargos that she wanted back there, it put the buckle right at the middle of the child's back and with no padding...that wasn't going to work. They were fine with the FPSE and the RA with the closed belt path, and I actually made it work with the Futura. The reverse belt path worked great on that one because the buckle ended up in the middle of the back between the vehicle seat and the carseat. We made it work with what we had. I knew I could fine a way, but we were hopeful that the BSC would work because then we could put any seat there.

[Judi]

Can you PM me too. I know an instructor in the area like that too. I won't work with her again.

[PixieEMT]

At least your instructors were on board with ERF. One of mine said that you should turn your kids when they start talking. They all thought I was insane for having my three year old (nearly four year old) RFing. They said I had a bad install because I used the lockoffs as well as my locking latchplate belt, so they installed it FFing on the passenger side. Morons. Better to have one classmate who's an abolute idiot than four instructors.

Wendy

Wow! I was lucky I had real nice instructors. Two were RNs from the western part of PA. The other lady was involved with PA TIPP (Traffic Injury Prevention Program) The youger instructor (Kelly) pushed the ERF more than the others. She had two DC under 4 y/o I believe. The others were really teaching from the manual and kept repeating "best practice" like..........HELLO hint hint...to the couple knuckle heads in our class that kept whining about the ERF.

[Starlight]

Wendy, this turn your kids when they start talking would work well for my family - both my boys will be over 2 before they say more than 4-5 words. :D

[Defrost]

They were fine with the FPSE and the RA with the closed belt path, and I actually made it work with the Futura. The reverse belt path worked great on that one because the buckle ended up in the middle of the back between the vehicle seat and the carseat.

Reverse belt path = long belt path, right? I didn't know you could do that on any seat but the Regent/Huskies!

[scatterbunny]

Oh yeah, the Fisher Price Futura allowed it, too, and that seat is/was awesome for fitting taller, older kids and for installing well with forward-of-the-bight seatbelts. H didn't outgrow it until just a few months ago. The last ones were made in 2001 and they had an eight year lifespan, so some lucky folks still have a few months left. I swear, that seat was the EASIEST to install, and it was low-profile like the Radian and fairly narrow (17 inches). Just a great all-around FF HWH.

[Defrost]

How cool! :thumbsup: Thanks! I really do wish more seats allowed the reverse belt path.

[daycaremom2002]

Oh yeah, the Fisher Price Futura allowed it, too, and that seat is/was awesome for fitting taller, older kids and for installing well with forward-of-the-bight seatbelts. H didn't outgrow it until just a few months ago. The last ones were made in 2001 and they had an eight year lifespan, so some lucky folks still have a few months left. I swear, that seat was the EASIEST to install, and it was low-profile like the Radian and fairly narrow (17 inches). Just a great all-around FF HWH.

I have one that will allow me one more year. It was made in January of 01. My other one expires late this year. I will be so sad! They are my favorite seat in the world.

[strollerfreak]

I have one that will allow me one more year. It was made in January of 01. My other one expires late this year. I will be so sad! They are my favorite seat in the world.

Same here...One of mine expires in Sept. of this year...my other one expires in February '09...I'm gonna milk that bad puppy for all it's worth!! :D

[scatterbunny]

LOL--I just passed along mine to a friend for her 5.5yo, 45# ds. He's been using a CarGo in booster mode in the center of her older Mercury Sable (but new enough to have a center shoulderbelt), but she just had a new baby who's using an Evenflo Tribute on the passenger side. They routinely have an adult backseat passenger so she really wanted to keep an outboard seat open for that passenger, not putting both kids outboard. Using the Futura, about the same width as the CarGo, makes it much easier to get the 5yo buckled up. She knows it expires at the end of this year. I'm thinking she'll end up with a Fisher Price Safe Voyage booster at that point.