Submarining

[melniemi]

We were coming home from Grandma's house on Christmas Eve. We left around 11 pm. I checked the boys to make sure their boosters were buckled and pulled tight and all was well.

We had a 1 hour 15 minute drive home. The kids all fell asleep. About 1/2 hour into the drive, I glanced back to see if all the kids were asleep (dh was driving). They were and the boys were still sitting properly (yay).

About 10 minutes later, 3 deer jumped out in front of the van. My dh hit the brakes - HARD - locked them up just in time to not hit the deer. Seatbelts locked. Dh and I looked at each other with the 'whew' expressions that we didn't hit the deer.

I look back at the kids. All still asleep. And my 7 year old had slid out under the seatbelt:eek: His butt was near the front of his booster. I had a panic moment of what would have happened to him if we had hit those deer.

He repositioned himself in his sleep to be sitting upright again, but now I am worried that he isn't safe in his seat.

He has a Turbobooster - highback. My 6 yo has one too, but stayed upright in his. Should I get him a different one? One that positions the belt lower on his thighs like a Young Sport or Vivo or something?? Help the paranoid mama out!

[MomToEliEm]

I have no advice on boosters as I haven't really ventured into that territory yet (will soon with my oldest though).

Do you think it might have helped if the seatbelt had been locked? Are you sure both the lap and shoulder belt were under the armrest (a common misuse is having just the lap part under the armrest and shoulder above)?

Maybe try out some other boosters and see how they fit your children.

I am glad that you didn't hit the deer as that really could have caused some damage to your vehicle (as well as to the deer).

[ThreeBeans]

Is there any possibility the seatbelt wasn't snug on his hips? Maybe it got hung up on one of the 'arm-rests'? Have you tried snugging it out, locking it and feeding it back into the retractor?

[joolsplus3]

The OEAMTC (Austrian AAA/Consumer Reports) gives the Turbo fairly low ranking (worst of all seats one year, actually) and that's one of the reasons why (belt rides up too high). I don't know if that's like CR giving a seat a bad rating in this country and we don't believe it, but it makes me hesitant to recommend the Turbo very often.
Annnnyyyyway... yeah, you might consider a booster with a better 'geometry'... or a small, cheap, light plastic bathroom footstool... my kids love theirs, it gives a lot of leg support and is on the ground so I don't fear it as a dangerous projectile.

:)

[Elizasmom]

When we had a Turbo, I put the arm rests at the lower setting thinking that might reduce the chance of submarining. I always thought the belt seemed pretty low on my DD.

[melniemi]

I usually do lock the seatbelt when we travel at night and I know the boys will fall asleep. Not sure why I didn't that night. Locking it may have helped prevent him slipping under the belt.

Both parts of the seatbelt were under the armrests and it was snug.

Interesting on the Australian testing.

Which boosters have the best 'geometry'?

The lap belt seems to be fairly low on his hips. It is at an angle, not across his thighs like Britax 5 pts but it seems like it lays across his hips.

Thanks!

[USmominOz]

Our Britax booster has it, they just came out, I looked into getting one but I decided not too because our boosters only go to 57 lbs:(. I am hoping that they will be increasing the weight limit next year.
If the SK Monterey gets good reviews I may look at getting 2 next year when I am home. It makes me not want to use the TB for dd when she is in dh's car.

http://www.babiesgalore.com.au/view_product_new.php?productid=1882&returnUrl2=%2Fshow_product_search.php%3Fsearchtype %3Dcategory%26categoryid%3D51


http://www.babiesgalore.com.au/view_product_new.php?productid=1055&returnUrl2=%2Fshow_product_search.php%3Fsearchtype %3Dcategory%26categoryid%3D51

So none of your booster in the states have the anti submarine clip?

[ThreeBeans]

No, I've never see that before...what a clever design!

[Wineaux]

So none of your booster in the states have the anti submarine clip?
No, that would add a couple of bucks to the manufacturer's cost of a booster seat. Can't have something like a useful safety feature eating away into corporate profits... Besides, if they added those extra few dollars they'd have to raise the retail price of the seat by at least $50, and us cheap American's coudn't afford it, or wouldn't pay for it...
:rolleyes:

[joolsplus3]

LOL, yes, cheap Americans we are... :rolleyes: We were *going to get* a Starriser (no comfy back, just the backless base) with an anti-submarine clip a few years ago, but Britax never released it...the jerks... :p

[USmominOz]

But you have higher weight seat:D

[Wineaux]

But you have higher weight seat:D
That's so the fat American kids can slide out from under the seat belts in a crash...

[ZephyrBlue]

That's so the fat American kids can slide out from under the seat belts in a crash...

:ROTFLMAO:

[USmominOz]

That's so the fat American kids can slide out from under the seat belts in a crash...

Our McDonalds here don't even sell the really large drinks. Our large is your medium.

[ThreeBeans]

Wineaux :ROTFLMAO:

[AdventureMom]

To the OP, how about a Recaro Start...? They're quite expensive, though. I'm sure another seat would probably meet your needs, but that's the first one that comes to mind.

[mommyto4]

I've seen ads for boosters with the anti submerining strap (not here in the U.S. of course). I soooo wish we would get them here, but with the high weight limit too. I'm not picky, I just want it all.:evil grin:

[scatterbunny]

I really love our Start, love the top tether-ability (yes, I know that's a made-up word :p ), love the shoulderbelt lockoff, love the seat depth adjustability, love the torso wing adjustability, love the metal frame. It's pretty impossible for H to buckle herself in, so it's not a booster we use for quick in/out trips. The discontinued Britax Bodyguard also has lockoffs, but on the lap portion of the belt, which should also help prevent submarining. The lapbelt lockoffs of the BG are easier for H to deal with than the shoulderbelt lockoff on the Start, but they still frustrate her sometimes, and it's much quicker if I buckle. The Start provides better comfort/support, IMHO, but I can't recall how the tallest setting compares to others. It has a lower (80 pound) weight limit, and I knew when we got it that I'd probably be keeping H in a booster longer than she would fit in the Start, but I wanted it anyway. :p

As far as boosters that position the belt low over the hips, I think the Bodyguard, Start, Vivo, Monarch and Air Booster all do a good job, based on how they fit H. I really think the Vivo positions the lapbelt best, but it's also shorter in seat depth that the others I mentioned. :(

Those anti-sub clips look awesome. Wish we could get them here!

[USmominOz]

They are going to start selling the Graco Air here, is there much difference to their other booster how a child fits in it?

It will cost $220 Au here which would be about $215 US.

[scatterbunny]

YES! The Air Booster is different from the Turbo. It is much deeper, for one thing, and a little bit wider (roomier). I haven't actually measured the tallest shoulderbelt setting, but I *think* it is higher than the Turbo. The seat portion of the Air is mesh, H said it felt like sitting on a trampoline and she loved it. The size/positioning of the wings are about the same as the Turbo, though, unfortunately.

[Defrost]

Yes, it's higher than the TB - 19" to the belt guides.

Not sure whether it positions the lap belt any better, though - I haven't had a chance to check since this was first posted. I'm VERY interested to check it out, though, since my kids ride in TBs and an AB.

Wait... I just took pics of dd in both the AB and the TB for a width comparison. I bet those pics will show the lap-belt's position as well...

TB:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i301/alunatic_photos/IMG_1426.jpg

AB:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i301/alunatic_photos/IMG_1423.jpg

Hm. They look about the same to me. Plus, the lap-belt is pretty low on her hips, so I think that the way the seat belt sits in regards to the vehicle seat must make a difference.

Yep - check this out. It's not as good a view of the lap-belt, but this is the same child (about 6mos ago) in the same TB, but in the Golf, and the lap-belt looks quite a bit higher than in the pictures above (which is Mazda5):
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i301/alunatic_photos/IMG_0898.jpg

I just looked through all my booster pics, and it looks like our Astro van positions the lapbelt higher, as well, regardless of which booster (the FPSV, TB, or AB).

[scatterbunny]

Yes, I totally agree that vehicle belt anchoring makes a big difference in how the lapbelt will fit a child. Belts anchored forward of the bight will usually allow the lapbelt to be positioned lower. Great comparison pics, Debbie!

[joolsplus3]

Good pictures, Debbie. I bet the OEAMTC has some kind of high lapbelts to get their results on their test bench :D

[melniemi]

Thanks for all the input! I'm thinking maybe I'll try the Monarch unless the Monterey comes out by the time I have the money. The Monterey looks like it'll last a bit longer.

Austin is pretty tiny - still wears a size 6 slim pants! I *think* our seatbelts have locking latchplates as well as locking retractors, which should keep the lapbelt tight.

I don't know. I would love a Start, but the price tag:eek:

Thanks everyone!

[arly1983]

Melissa,

I just noticed your kids names: THEY ARE SOOOO BEAUTIFUL!

[melniemi]

Melissa,

I just noticed your kids names: THEY ARE SOOOO BEAUTIFUL!

aww...thanks:love: