Tethering and lapbelts

[brooklynsmommy]

You guys have been so helpful on my quest to get all this crap figured out. Background - I have a 93 Ford Aerostar. I wanted tethers put in so I took it to my dad's work (Ford dealership) Well, the approved tether spots are 3 under last row and one somewhere near the middle row to tether the front seat. Not an issue since no one will ever go there. So I get my van back and I have two BEHIND the 3rd row.... Which means they didnt put them in approved spots! Well, while waiting for hubby the other day I decided to read my manual. It clearly states that you CANNOT use a forward facing seat in the middle lap belt only seat UNLESS it is tethered!!! Ok I thought, that isn't a problem since I have tethers. But then I remembered that they aren't in approved spots. Then to make matters worse, the majority if not all manufacturers state that the tether can't go under the car seat. So how do they expect the middle seat in the back to be tethered?

[joolsplus3]

Is your middle lapbelt ALR or manual or ELR? I can imagine them having that 'rule' if it's an ELR (pulls out from one side, buckles, then ONLY tightens in a crash), but otherwise I can't see why they'd have that rule (They might, I'm sure it's possible, it's just very odd).
I don't think anyone says you can't go under another seat to an approved tether anchor... it's fairly common for anchors to only be behind the third row and that's just what you have to use in the second row.

I'm sure someone can chime in with more details, I was mostly curious about the nature of that lapbelt... :)

[brooklynsmommy]

Its one of the older ones with a locking latchplate. I meant to tether the 3rd row seats. I thought it was a no no to have to go under the seat to tether it. Visually it would be tethered under them.

[scatterbunny]

The "no tethering under the vehicle seat the carseat is on" only applies to rear-facing tethering. :)

Can you post, word-for-word, what the owner's manual says re: the lapbelt?

And does the dealership know they installed the anchors in an unapproved location?

[joolsplus3]

Wow, weird to require tethering with a manual lapbelt... really weird...:confused: (Just confused by that quirk in the manual, not questioning you!)

[SusanMae]

It's a no-no to tether RF by going under the seat.

I just looked in my LATCH manual...and it says they tether anchors should go in the drill dimples UNDER the 3rd row seat.

The mechanics probably put them on the back because that's where they generally are in newer cars/vans.

You can't use them until the dealership fixes that. Does your manual say where they are supposed to be? If it does I'd march myself in there with that. Otherwise you may have to contact someone at Ford directly---and I'm not sure how hard that would be to get someone who understands what a TA is and where it's supposed to be and a form with said info on it to take back to the mechanic.

Maybe someone here can explain how to tether to the seatbelt so that you can use that in the mean time. I would offer, but I've never done it or seen it IRL...so I'm probably not the best person for the job.

Susan

[brooklynsmommy]

let me run and get my manual! As far as the tethers go, I told my dad but don't want him to have to deal with it again. They worked for 3 hours to get mine installed. I dont know why, but it took that long. And even then they only got two in....

[joolsplus3]

Probably took them a lot longer than it should have, if they were putting them in the wrong place! (joke!)(and if it was the right place, maybe they didn't work on it the entire time, I think cars sit around in between other cars getting worked on a lot of the time...)

[brooklynsmommy]

Ok under the Toddlers section it states:
Install forward-facing convertible safety seats only in vehicle seating positions equipped with lap-shoulder belts. Forward facing convertible safety seat can be used in the center of the three-passenger second row bench seat only if a top tether strap is used.
Here are my anchors installed.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/purplefuzzy/christa004.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/purplefuzzy/christa010.jpg

[brooklynsmommy]

I do know how to tether to a seat belt. Thankfully we dont need to forward facing at the moment since I FINALLY got DD's seat in rear facing at 24 months. She will be there for quite a while since she is only about 25 lbs. I do however have my nieces from time to time in my car. This is really the only spot I feel comfortable placing a car seat since I cant for the life of me get a car seat tight with a locking clip on the lap shoulder belts.....

[Defrost]

Locking clips aren't so hard! You just install the seat, pull the seat belt nice & tight, then pinch it at the latchplate (that's the "male" end, where it buckles) and unbuckle it. Keep the seat belt pinched and put the locking clip on, less than one inch from the latchplate. Then re-buckle. I know they gave me headaches at first, but it just takes practice. :)

[snowbird25ca]

I did a seat check back about 2 months ago for a family with a 1993 Aerostar. They had 3 TA's - 2 of them were under the 2nd row bench right close to the leg where it attached to the floor, and 1 was under the 3rd row where the blue box is on your picture:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/snowbird25ca/Others%20photos/Image1.jpg

The dad is a heavy duty mechanic, and was telling me that the other positions in the 3rd row required dropping the gas tank in order to put them in. So it could really have taken 3hrs for them to be put in... (Dad put in the 1 3rd row anchor, but the other 2 were there prior - assumed put in by the dealer at one point.)

In regards to your question about going under the seat, that applies only for rf'ing seats that can be tethered when rf'ing. For ff'ing seats, that rule doesn't apply - it only matters that the tether is routed according to the vehicle manufacturers directions and attached to an approved anchor. In the case of the aerostar, you're routing the tether up over the top of the seatback and then hooking it to the anchor underneath.

Could you maybe check with another dealership in town? Ford is supposed to retrofit TA's for free from what I know.

Oh, and so far as installing seats with locking clips, twisting your belt stalks a full 2 to 3 twists will help immensely with getting a tight installation, but you'll still likely need to slide the locking clip so that it's not on the edge of the belt path - depends on what type of seats you're installing though... There were 3 different types of carseats installed in the parents vehicle, and all 3 of them went in rock solid with a locking clip. The hard part was rebuckling the buckle in the 2nd row because there's not much space between the buckles.

[brooklynsmommy]

How did they have two in the second row if there is only one approved place for one in the second row? Too bad I couldn't just install the tethers myself. It would sure save myself a whole lot of hassle. Not only that, but I would like high weight ones put in. I will need to have the hold plugged though...

[snowbird25ca]

How did they have two in the second row if there is only one approved place for one in the second row? Too bad I couldn't just install the tethers myself. It would sure save myself a whole lot of hassle. Not only that, but I would like high weight ones put in. I will need to have the hold plugged though...

I'm really not sure how... They were already in there, and they weren't the first owners. Tethers are mandatory for carseats in Canada, so perhaps the dealer who did it had different info? They're one of the standard TA's that I've seen in other retro-fitted Ford's, if that makes any difference.

eta: I went back and found your post about tether placements, and now I'm confused at the placement in their van. Gotta love it when you have no vehicle manual to deal with either. Could the CDN and US version of this van be different?

edited again: What is the seating like in your van? Their van had 2nd row short bench - 2 seating positions, both lap/shoulder belt, and 3rd row bench - 3 seating positions, outboard lap/shoulder and center lap only belt. The 2nd row passenger side seatbelt had a portion that came from the passenger side sidewall of the van and went across the space that was used to access the 3rd row. Quite a pain in the rump.... does that sound like the interior of your van? Ford didn't make any other type of minivan in 93 did it? I'm sure they said it was an aerostar.

The post where you asked about tether placements it said 3 tether anchors for the 2nd row, but if there's only 2 seating positions that doesn't work. There must be a difference in model there somewhere. You mentioned only having 2 seating positions in the 2nd row at the end of that thread too, so something must be wrong in the LATCH manual if it's saying there's 3 TA's that can be installed for use with the 2nd row. :confused:

original thread about TA locations for others to see: http://car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=26538&highlight=aerostar

[brooklynsmommy]

Yeah what they were talking about is "rows". Why they can't say 3rd row I don't know. Yes I understand its the second "row" but it's the 3rd row people! The only other configuration that ANY Aerostar had were captains chairs in the middle row. But even still, that wouldn't change the placements of the tethers. Especially since the manuals are the same. The 4 places were 3 under the rear bench, and one right near the right side of the middle bench/ under the passenger captain chair to be able to tether the front seat.

[snowbird25ca]

Yeah what they were talking about is "rows". Why they can't say 3rd row I don't know. Yes I understand its the second "row" but it's the 3rd row people! The only other configuration that ANY Aerostar had were captains chairs in the middle row. But even still, that wouldn't change the placements of the tethers. Especially since the manuals are the same. The 4 places were 3 under the rear bench, and one right near the right side of the middle bench/ under the passenger captain chair to be able to tether the front seat.

So how many seating positions do you have in your 2nd row?

This is what I'm trying to figure out - if there are 3 that can be installed under the 3rd row but they're for use with the 2nd row, it doesn't add up when the 2nd row bench only has 2 seating positions. Hopefully that makes sense, because it's a bit hard to explain... :confused:

eta: Have you had a chance to try a locking clip install in the outboard locations? At one time Ford dealerships supplied them free of charge, so if any of your seats have them missing, you might try asking Ford first instead of having to buy them. The nice thing is that the locking clips were actually very easy to do in the Ford, the cushions are so squishy it made it easier to rebuckle. LOL.

[brooklynsmommy]

There are two in the middle and three in the back. I guess the ones under the seat could be used for either the middle or rear row. Just not at the same time of course.:D I have no problem getting a hold of locking clips since my dad is a salesman for ford. I just haven't needed them yet since my daughter is in a Britax.