Help me understand why FF is easier

[steph]

Okay so as I was getting Ryan in the car last night I was thinking that I just don't understand the arguement that FF is more convienant/easier.

Of course I have never put Ryan FF so I wouldn't know by experience but by simple logistics you have to buckle your child and put them in the carseat whether they are RF or FF, so what makes it easier?

Just wondering why parents use that as a reason to FF at 1 rather than doing ERF.

[wendytthomas]

The *only* thing that's easier for me is that I can lean back in my seat (with my seat pushed back and the back down) and buckle Piper in quickly as we're in the carpool line and I don't need to get out of the car. That's it. And if she wasn't old enough to be FFing I wouldn't be doing the carpool line.

I found handing things to her just as easy RFing as FFing. I found talking to her about directions confusing, but most kids who are RFing are still working out left and right and north, south, east, and west.

So, no idea either, really.

Wendy

[ThreeBeans]

I have always found buckling a FF child in rather than a RF child to be slightly more....ergonomic? Not sure why.

[southpawboston]

1) reaching back to hand something to DD2 in her RF signo with massive side wings requires being a contortionist. reaching back to hand something to DD1 in her FF YS requires merely a simple arm movement. after a long (6 hour) trip this past weekend, DW's back was sore from constantly tending to DD2 from the front seat.

2) it is impossible to see DD2 at night, even with an RF mirror and the dome light turned on. she has recently starting "sucking" on her food as a soothing mechanism, and we worry about her falling asleep with food in her mouth. it's trivial to see DD1 at night.

3) getting DD2 in her signo is a PITA. she has to be "fed" into the car lengthwise (like a tree branch into a chipper :eek:, sorry, couldn't think of a gentler analogy ;)), then rotated, bent and plopped into place before buckling in.

4) DD2 wants desparately to look forward at us. she can catch glimpses of us in her RFing mirror, but is constantly trying to crane her neck over the sides of the headwings to look at us :(.

[mcomommy]

I find it a bit eaisier to get my older daughter in her ff seat rather my second dd in her rf seat but I really thing that has more to do with age as DD1 "helps" me and DD2 is either limp or fighting it.

[tiggercat]

I actually found RF to be easier. Just scoop her up, plop her in the seat and buckle. It was a bit more difficult in the winter when we'd take off snowboots, but not terrible. When we switched to FF, I kept bumping her head on the door frame, and it just seemed more difficult to get her buckled, because she would lean forward. It's gotten easier with time, and now she likes to climb in herself, so I don't even have to lift.
I think people are more in a rush to turn them because of percieved discomfort or so they can see the baby (and be seen) rather than true difficulty associated with putting a child in a seat RF vs FF.

[azgirl71]

I think people like the fact is is easier to buckle a child in that is not pushing on the back of the seat with their feet. They can see their face, unbuckle them from the front seat. And of course the famous my child has to sit FF because they are happier and don't scream.

My opinion on that is if you never let your child sit FF they don't know what they are missing anyway. There would be no reason to cry for the unkown. :twocents:

[southpawboston]

I have always found buckling a FF child in rather than a RF child to be slightly more....ergonomic? Not sure why.

i haven't found this to be the case for myself, but perhaps it has something to do with the amount of room you have to work with. for a RFing seat, you only have the distance between the headwings and the vehicle's rear seatback. you must work within that space. for an FFing seat, you have the space between the headwings and the front seats... definitely more horizontal space in which to use your hands and arms.

[cryswilkins]

1) reaching back to hand something to DD2 in her RF signo with massive side wings requires being a contortionist. reaching back to hand something to DD1 in her FF YS requires merely a simple arm movement. after a long (6 hour) trip this past weekend, DW's back was sore from constantly tending to DD2 from the front seat.

2) it is impossible to see DD2 at night, even with an RF mirror and the dome light turned on. she has recently starting "sucking" on her food as a soothing mechanism, and we worry about her falling asleep with food in her mouth. it's trivial to see DD1 at night.

3) getting DD2 in her signo is a PITA. she has to be "fed" into the car lengthwise, then rotated and plopped into place before buckling in.

4) DD2 wants desparately to look forward at us. she can catch glimpses of us in her RFing mirror, but is constantly trying to crane her neck over the sides of the headwings to look at us :(.

Do you not like the Signo?

[azgirl71]

1) reaching back to hand something to DD2 in her RF signo with massive side wings requires being a contortionist. reaching back to hand something to DD1 in her FF YS requires merely a simple arm movement. after a long (6 hour) trip this past weekend, DW's back was sore from constantly tending to DD2 from the front seat.

2) it is impossible to see DD2 at night, even with an RF mirror and the dome light turned on. she has recently starting "sucking" on her food as a soothing mechanism, and we worry about her falling asleep with food in her mouth. it's trivial to see DD1 at night.

3) getting DD2 in her signo is a PITA. she has to be "fed" into the car lengthwise, then rotated and plopped into place before buckling in.

4) DD2 wants desparately to look forward at us. she can catch glimpses of us in her RFing mirror, but is constantly trying to crane her neck over the sides of the headwings to look at us :(.


I am sorry DD2 is not happy :( Do you think it is the wings on her seat taht bother her moreso than RF?

[southpawboston]

Do you not like the Signo?

oh, i love it (for the most part), i just don't like how difficult it makes getting a kiddo in there when RFing. the BV was no different in this regard.

I am sorry DD2 is not happy :( Do you think it is the wings on her seat taht bother her moreso than RF?

well, she actually loves the sidewings for resting her head and sleeping. she only tries to crane her neck when we're interacting with DD1 or trying to talk to DD2. she used to do the same thing with the scenera, although it wasn't as hard to in that seat. she wants to be part of the action. if DD1 is asleep or no one is talking, DD2 is a happy camper, looking at books or playing with a toy, and never paws at the headwings or tries to get around them.

[dd9736]

for people with smaller cars, it's easier, because of the twisting, i have to climb right in the backseat to buckle ds1, if he was ffing (not happening anytime soon) i could put him in and buckle from the front seat of my 2dr car.

[Susan in MI]

For me, the biggest issue with rfing is that in the winter, I want to take off not only dd's coat, but also her boots. When it is snowing and blowing out, we are both frozen stiff by the time I stand outside the van while removing or putting on all that stuff to buckle or unbuckle. It is faster not to have to deal with footwear. My back cannot handle me bending over inside the van, so I must do these things with the door open. Now, dd has a carseat safe coat and she can keep her shoes/boots on, easy peasy.

When a child decides to pitch a fit, they have the back of the seat to brace against when rf. I do find a fit pitching child easier to buckle ff, but it is hard regardless at that point.

[SamPacey&Joshua]

Well, as far as 4-door cars go, I don't see a difference at all in getting kiddos in RF or FF. My own kids have only been rear-facing (and will be to the limits of their seats), but I've babysat others that have been FF.

Now, in my car, FF is definitely easier, but that's only because it's a small 2-door. Again, my kids have only been RF, but the other kids I kept were FF most of the time. When they are FF, I'll just be able to lean on the back of a front seat to buckle them in. Right now, with both RF, I have to climb over the RF tethers to sit between the seats to buckle them in, then climb back out.

[Mama2J]

If you have a small car or a 2-door car, I think FF is easier. When I had my 2-door, I had to either climb in the back seat or balance somehow to get the seat (infant seat) onto the base. With the convertible it was even harder, because I had to maneuver him in and buckle with the seat already there. It also decreased front seat leg room because we couldn't put the seat back that far. With the 4-door car I have now, I had no problem with RF. I just turned him because I thought I was supposed to.

[Morganthe]

I found it difficult to have dd rfing in the center after she moved from a baby bucket to convertable.
I had a choice of hunching/crawling into the back seat with her in my arm curled up or almost tossing her in sideways while I leaned as much as I could from the outboard passenger seat. My back and knees always hurt. The worst was sudden spasms. :(

I ended up moving her outboard, but even then, during foul weather I had no protection from wind & rain. Plus the wet would blow in on her too.

When she turned ff'd, I was able to put her in her seat, close door, then climb into the driver's to reach over and secure her during bad weather. We'd certainly be a lot dryer and happier than before.

Personally, I think it has a lot to do with the size of the person, size of the vehicle, and how much forward the front seats are as to whether or not it's 'easier' or the same. :shrug-shoulders:

DD was happy rfing with a mirror on the back seat or ff at the time. But I have to say I like ff so much more. :shrug-shoulders:

[joolsplus3]

1) reaching back to hand something to DD2 in her RF signo with massive side wings requires being a contortionist. reaching back to hand something to DD1 in her FF YS requires merely a simple arm movement. after a long (6 hour) trip this past weekend, DW's back was sore from constantly tending to DD2 from the front seat.

2) it is impossible to see DD2 at night, even with an RF mirror and the dome light turned on. she has recently starting "sucking" on her food as a soothing mechanism, and we worry about her falling asleep with food in her mouth. it's trivial to see DD1 at night.

3) getting DD2 in her signo is a PITA. she has to be "fed" into the car lengthwise (like a tree branch into a chipper :eek:, sorry, couldn't think of a gentler analogy ;)), then rotated, bent and plopped into place before buckling in.

4) DD2 wants desparately to look forward at us. she can catch glimpses of us in her RFing mirror, but is constantly trying to crane her neck over the sides of the headwings to look at us :(.

Yeah, that's why I like my Radian... I can see my rf kid behind me, she's easy to load into the car, and I can reach her... :whistle:

[Defrost]

Aside from all the reasons already mentioned, it's considered easier because it's the standard. It's just what people are used to. Same reason people think a circumcized penis is "easier," that formula-feeding is "easier," etc. NOT starting a debate on either of those things, please! I'm just pointing out that what you're used to is easier for you, whatever that may be. Anything new or different is going to be harder at first, no matter how much time or effort it may end up saving you in the long run.

[mamaofthree]

I actually find it extremely difficult to tighten ds's MA which is RF. The adjuster is so low- the seat back is in my way of pulling it straight out, so it takes longer. Drives me nuts!!! There is no way I'm switching him around until he hits 33 lbs, but I still hate it. Kinda wishing I had bought the ETA so I could just crank the knob. I know some people hate that knob, but I have a reg Triumph and find it quite easy to adjust.

Ds loves being RF. He is RF in a captains chair, and his two older sisters are FF in the third row, so he can see and talk to them. :love:



Kimberly

[Splash]

It depends on the vehicle. In the van, there was no issue. In my car, once Charlie got to be in the 30 pound/33 inch range, putting him in RF was extremely difficult. WAY easier FF. Plus it;s easier to talk to the child, tend to him, etc. FF it easier, period. I get that. But I don't think it's reason enough to turn.

[KAK22]

In a 2-door car, I can definitely agree that FF is easier. For a 4 door - I hate FF! It's a pain in the butt to get DD in now!

I used to be able to sit on the seat and buckle her in, now I have to twist and contort! Plus, she's much more annoying FF. :p

[abacus2]

Another issue is ease of installation; RFing seats can be quite tricky to install, but FFing seats are usually pretty easy.

[dd9736]

Another issue is ease of installation; RFing seats can be quite tricky to install, but FFing seats are usually pretty easy.

unless you have a radian

[steph]

Yeah I could see the 2 door vs 4 door but it just bugs me when people use it as an excuse and I know they have a SUV or minivan..........

[tl01]

I "think" that FF will be easier than RFing (though I don't know b/c I've never tried it) b/c when he wants to fight me while getting in the car, he just straightens his body completely and uses the back of the seat as leverage. I can take a lot of work to get him to sit in the seat sometimes.

[UlrikeDG]

I actually find it extremely difficult to tighten ds's MA which is RF.

Me, too! It's horrible. I pull and pull and pull and get it as tight as I can, and there's still slack in the harness. When it's front facing, I can reach under the seat and pull the slack out before pulling the slack out from the front, and that works pretty well, but rear facing, there's nothing I can do. I try not to loosen it when I put DD in, but then she starts screaming because I'm tugging her arms and legs to put them through the harness.

The EASY harness adjuster on the Roundabout is the biggest thing that sold me on Britax seven years ago, and the adjuster on the Marathon is the biggest thing that has me eying other brands for my next seat purchase now. :(

[kangato2roos]

I think it depends on the kid, the seat, the car, and the adult.

My son has only been ff a very small handful of times. He rides ff in my mother's car on very very rare occasions because her arthritis makes it incredibly difficult to tighten his harness rear facing... she was worried he was not getting secure enough, so we flipped him in her car only and she can get his harness snug enough every single time. For her, ff is easier.

My car; rear facing is ten times easier. I'm very short and must have the seat far forward so I can't reach behind me and reach a forward facing child. My dd is 6 and I can't reach her from the front seat. I have to toss things to her if she needs them. My ds is 2 and rf... I can reach back, he reaches his hand over the side of his MA, and I can reach him. If he was ff, there would be no way I could reach him, at all. A tall person can reach a ff child just as easily as a rf child in my car, but I'm not tall, so it doesn't work for me. :p

My son has a tendency to arch his back and push out of his seat when I'm trying to buckle ff. Rf he has the seat back to push against with his feet, but that just serves to cocoon him further into his carseat (in my car, it pushes him up and out in my dad's car). When he arches his back ff, he just slides right out of the seat. It's much harder for me to buckle him in when he arches his back than when he pushes against the seat.

Some cars, some kids, some seats, some adults I can see ff being easier. Others rf is easier. I think it all depends on so many different factors.

[Yoshi]

I think the reasoning is that you don't have to lift a larger baby over another seat or if you have 3 across in a sedan, all the seats are accessible? If you have a van (I don't) it might be taken for granted that you can just climb in next to them and get them in their seats RF no problem.

[kangato2roos]

I actually find it extremely difficult to tighten ds's MA which is RF. The adjuster is so low- the seat back is in my way of pulling it straight out, so it takes longer. Drives me nuts!!!

I can see that. It's somewhat difficult in my car, the adjuster hits right at the back of the seat at an awkward angle, but I came to the Marathon after a ComfortSport where I couldn't even REACH the harness adjuster because it was jammed flush against the back of the seat way down low on the base... so to me, the MA is way easier than a harness adjuster I couldn't really reach!

But I do sometimes get aggravated at not being able to just pull straight out to tighten, so I can see your point here.

[musicmaj]

I think that rearfacing is very easy in my van - but terrible in the center of my corolla with a three across. I can barely get in there to buckle him in. I have been tempted to turn him for that reason, but I just can't do it since I know he is safer rearfacing.

[safeinthecar]

I actually find it extremely difficult to tighten ds's MA which is RF. The adjuster is so low- the seat back is in my way of pulling it straight out, so it takes longer. Drives me nuts!!! There is no way I'm switching him around until he hits 33 lbs, but I still hate it. Kinda wishing I had bought the ETA so I could just crank the knob. I know some people hate that knob, but I have a reg Triumph and find it quite easy to adjust.

Ds loves being RF. He is RF in a captains chair, and his two older sisters are FF in the third row, so he can see and talk to them. :love:



Kimberly

take up the slack in the harness by pulling it tight behind the seat first and that will make it a bunch easier.

[dd9736]

I've put a friend's ffing daughter in her seat in a van, on the opposite captains chair my DS was riding rfing in, and I would have to say, it was about the same to get them in (2 back drs), the difference being age, she's 3, and knew to put her arms through the harness.

[UlrikeDG]

That helps a little, but not enough--especially w/ the harness in the bottom slots!

[jdchic3]

I also find RF difficult. I have a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee, just so you all get the picture. When I had DD FF (before I was educated about the benifits of RF ;)) it was so much easier to lift her in and out and buckle her. Doing up her harness and tightening it is a real hassle, as is DSs. Before DD was a year it was really easy because she was in the middle and I just sat next to her on the vehicle seat, thus changing the angle. While I'm glad she's safer RF, I'm not going to be super sad when I have to turn her FF. Also, it's really hard to hear her when she talks to me.

[DaniCPST]

I find it a lot easier to put a child in ffing than putting a kid in a rfing seat. To me it is easier no matter what vehicle it is...I have never really dealt with a small car or a 2 door and I still find it easier wether it be a SUV, truck or van. The only way I can really describe it is that when they are rear-facing (keep in mind I only have Britax seats) you have to fit the child in the space between the top of the door frame and the highest point of the seat...like next to where their legs go. But when they are forward facing you have a lot more room to put them in because you can use the space from your floorboard up to your ceiling and then set them back in the seat. I know that totally probably doesn't make any sense but that is the best I can do trying to put that into words. ;)
Another reason is that they cant push their feet into the seatback and fight when you try to hold them down into the seat while trying to dig the straps out to buckle them in.
I have a forward facing 3 year old outboard and a 1 year old rear facer outboard and when I am with my hubby I always try to only have to deal with the 3 year old and let him deal with putting in the rfer. :cool::whistle:
If it isn't cold in Cali you should switch your seat around and put Ryan in and out a couple of times and see what you think. Oh yeah but you have a heck of a time with your center install so maybe you wouldn't want to do that. :p:rolleyes::D

[singingpond]

Me, too! It's horrible. I pull and pull and pull and get it as tight as I can, and there's still slack in the harness. When it's front facing, I can reach under the seat and pull the slack out before pulling the slack out from the front, and that works pretty well, but rear facing, there's nothing I can do..... and the adjuster on the Marathon is the biggest thing that has me eying other brands for my next seat purchase now. :(

I have this same gripe about our RF Marathon, RF Wizard, and also RF Radian. RF, I can at least reach behind the seat and push down on the splitter plate to help get the initial slack out easily, but all of the final tightening is a real PITA, with the repeated pull-and-release motions required. With the angle you have to pull on the adjuster strap (upward, because the vehicle seatback allows no other direction), the adjuster strap locking mechanism doesn't lock once you have tension on the harness, so I always have to rock the mechanism back down onto the strap manually after each pull on the last few tugs (otherwise, the slack you just pulled through is lost again when you release the tension on the adjuster strap).

It's enough of a PITA that I recently switched to not loosening the harnesses at all between uses, but that has some of its own annoyances, as you pointed out.


As far as the original question about whether FF is easier than RF, my experience is that I definitely find FF easier as the child gets older, although I don't think there's anything easier about FF vs. RF at the 'traditional' turning-around age of 1 y.o. My DS#2, who just turned 3, is still RF, and I'm honestly starting to look forward to turning him. Reasons:

1) Ease of insertion -- I liked SPB's log-chipper analogy ;) ... in our main car ('96 Corolla), DS rides outboard in a Wizard, and fiddling a strong, sometimes uncooperative, 3 y.o. into the available door opening, without hitting his head on the door frame, or on the headwings of the Wizard, can be a real pain...

2) Shoes -- except in really benign weather, riding RF still involves taking shoes off to get into the car, and putting them on at the destination. If shoes are messy, this means I'm holding DS in one arm, while taking his shoes off with the other hand. This is an entertainment I could do without, especially in the bad weather that typically leads to messy shoes in the first place. Also, on a few occasions we've managed to forget DS's shoes at home, since they aren't on his feet when we carry him out to the car :rolleyes:

3) Child independence -- DS really wants to walk everywhere himself, climb into his carseat HIMSELF, etc. He's quite capable of scrambling up over the side of the Wizard (with shoes on, of course), and then, if I don't catch him quickly, will continue on across the other two carseats in the back of the vehicle, and proudly sit down in his older brother's seat on the far side of the vehicle. Needless to say, this slows things down (as I walk around the car to pull him back out on the other side), and I don't want his shoes all over the seats anyway, so he usually isn't allowed to get in on his own. With a FF seat, he generally could be allowed to get in himself, which will lead to less frustration.

4) Visibility -- FF children are just easier to see. I look forward to being able to see DS#2's face, especially since he has a significant expressive language delay, which makes communication with a RF child really difficult (can't see face, gestures, etc.). Don't worry, I don't plan to spend my time watching him in the rearview mirror while driving... :rolleyes:

As for the problems of buckling in an uncooperative child, I haven't found much difference between FF and RF -- RF they can brace their feet against the vehicle backrest, FF they can try to slither out into the available space in front of the seat. As for those people who describe conveniently buckling in a FF child by leaning back from the front seat, it sounds nice, but I've never had a child reliably cooperative enough to do this, nor have I had a carseat with an adjuster mechanism easy enough to pull tight from this position :). I've always needed better mechanical advantage, over both child and carseat, LOL.

Katrin