DD's dad refuses to buckle her in correctly...

[Mom2Livi]

Okay, first of all, how do I convince pretty much everyone in my family that DD should not be wearing her winter coat in her car seat? I've explained it to them a million times, but they just don't believe that it's really that dangerous. They say that it's too much of a pain to take her coat off in the car. Any links would be very much appreciated. :thumbsup:

And here's my rant...

DD's father and I are separated. DD stays with him at his parent's house during the day on Mondays. I send her there in her Snugride with a heavy blanket over her, and I pack her winter coat in the diaper bag. When they bring her home, she has her winter coat on in the car seat, the chest clip is slid all the way down to her crotch, and the straps are too loose! I've explained to her father that it's unsafe, I've demonstrated how to buckle her in, and nothing is working! They refuse to put her in the seat correctly. :( We're getting ready to purchase a convertible seat for their car, because she has almost outgrown her Snugride at 10 months. What can I do to make sure that she's buckled in correctly when she's at their house? I hate not being able to be in control of my daughter's safety. :(

[Mom2nj]

Is it just the coat issue, or is the harness always to loose? If you can, I'd get her a coat that is allowed to be buckled in the seat and only give them that one, if they need a warmer one they can keep it at their house for when she is there for playtime outside.

[ThreeBeans]

Ditto the above poster, get a fleece bunting or coat.

And if they still refuse to buckle her in properly, tell them you would hate to have seek a court order to protect your child from her own family.

[Mom2Livi]

Is it just the coat issue, or is the harness always to loose?

It is always too lose, they never have her buckled in correctly.

[Defrost]

Unfortunately, it sounds like this is a situation where they are simply never going to listen to you, simply because you're the "ex." No matter how correct or logical your argument, they're not going to hear it because it's coming from you.

I'd suggest finding an outside resource; if you can get a brochure from the ped's office, for example, or have a mutual friend let them know about a local carseat check or tech. That way you can just keep saying "But the PED said," or "Remember what the police officer said..."

What a crappy situation. I'm so sorry you have to deal with it. :(

[NOAHSMOM]

It is too bad that he and his family won't listen to you, do you guys have regular discussions about your dd? My son's dad and I are divorced and share custody and thankfully he follows through on securely buckling him in his seat. I did have to buy the seat and once in awhile he asks when he can be in a booster, but day to day he does a good job. My son hasn't worn his puffy winter coat yet, but when he does I will put a fleece underneath it so it is easy for him to take the top layer off in the car. At your dd's age she probaly doesn't even need a puffy coat, but getting this settled early on would be a good thing and hopefully done the road it will be routine and there won't be any issues. It is very hard having shared custody and not being in control all of the time, believe me i know.

[thepeach80]

Ordering a carseat poncho might help as it's carseat friendly, but otherwise a thin fleece coat. Can you demand they see a tech? At least her dad? Then it won't be coming from you, but someone else.

[Mom2Livi]

Unfortunately, it sounds like this is a situation where they are simply never going to listen to you, simply because you're the "ex."

Yes, I agree with you, that's exactly what it is. :( It is very unfortunate, because it is our child's safety that is being compromised.

I feel like the more I preach about the car seat issue, the MORE they buckle her in incorrectly, just to shove it back in my face.

[papooses]

What state are you in? Presenting a highlighted copy of the actual law outlining that what they're doing is not only unsafe but potentially illegal along with a demand (ahem: request) to see a tech might be helpful if not necessary.

[MagnificentMama]

Ditto the above poster, get a fleece bunting or coat.

And if they still refuse to buckle her in properly, tell them you would hate to have seek a court order to protect your child from her own family.

Not to sound like a meanie, but threebeans, that's just impossible to do. There is no way a family court judge is going to hand out and OOP for a childs father b/c he uses a coat on her in the car seat.

To the OP, honestly legally, there is nothing you can do. I wish there was. I wish there was this magic legal form that you could fill out and your parenting issues will be solved, but there isn't. My ex is horrible with car seat misuse and rolls his eyes everytime I try to aproach him about. I know this isn't what you want to hear and everyone is going to get all mad b/c technically there is something that should be done because it's a blantent misuse- but the bottom line is that you can't force someone to be a good parent. You just gotta let it go and pray that nothing bad will happen to her. It's so much easier said than done- i know, i've been there. I"m still there now, but there is nothing you can do to force him to give a rats butt about her safety.

[NZ Child Restraints]

What about a thin jacket and an extra top or singlet on Daddy days?
That way she will still be safe and reduce the bulkyness.
Then can you get someone who you know is a tech to pop over and visit to have a chat about why the harness needs to be a little tighter? He may be scared that it is too tight?

[CDNTech]

Why not send them a link on how to use a coat safely in the carseat...http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=273916#post273916

I'd also make sure to get a warm fleece coat instead of a bulky winter coat. If they do continue to buckle her incorrectly, there won't be as much slack as there would with a thick winter jacket.

The only other thing I can think of is to get an appointment with a tech for them.

[snowbird25ca]

One other thing I'm thinking, is to consider getting a triumph advance for dad's car. With the infinite adjust harness, at least that's one thing that's taken out of the equation since it'll always be at the right height automatically, and maybe the knobs will be easy enough for them they'll tighten them properly. (Plus it's relatively inexpensive and has high harness & decent weight limit. :thumbsup: )

[Mom2Livi]

One other thing I'm thinking, is to consider getting a triumph advance for dad's car. With the infinite adjust harness, at least that's one thing that's taken out of the equation since it'll always be at the right height automatically, and maybe the knobs will be easy enough for them they'll tighten them properly. (Plus it's relatively inexpensive and has high harness & decent weight limit. :thumbsup: )

This is what I was thinking to... I'm actually purchasing the seat on Thursday. So how exactly do you adjust the harness, do you have to use the knobs to adjust it, or does the harness just automatically adjust on it's own? I know, dumb question, but I haven't even played with the new Triumph yet. :o

[Defrost]

One other thing I'm thinking, is to consider getting a triumph advance for dad's car. With the infinite adjust harness, at least that's one thing that's taken out of the equation since it'll always be at the right height automatically, and maybe the knobs will be easy enough for them they'll tighten them properly. (Plus it's relatively inexpensive and has high harness & decent weight limit. :thumbsup: )

While I really like the ETA and I agree on your other points, I'm not sure about the knobs making it more likely he'll get it tight enough... I've only played with the Advanced in the store, but in the old Triumph model that had the double-harness that I helped with, I found it was very difficult to get it tight enough. It felt like I was squishing the kid! I don't know if that was from the double-harness or the knob, though. :( Definitely worth looking into, though - hopefully it was the double-harness that was giving me trouble, and the knob being on the side of the seat will encourage them to USE it.

[lovinwaves]

Not to sound like a meanie, but threebeans, that's just impossible to do. There is no way a family court judge is going to hand out and OOP for a childs father b/c he uses a coat on her in the car seat.



Yes, but mentioning it to the family might pull their heads out of their rears and start "listening up", or at least that's what we hope.

[Defrost]

This is what I was thinking to... I'm actually purchasing the seat on Thursday. So how exactly do you adjust the harness, do you have to use the knobs to adjust it, or does the harness just automatically adjust on it's own? I know, dumb question, but I haven't even played with the new Triumph yet. :o

It's not a dumb question!

The part that adjusts on its own is the slot height - there's no re-threading or really adjusting the height at all. They just slide up & down and go right where they're supposed to. :thumbsup:

For getting the harness tight, however, there are knobs on the sides of the seat that you turn until the harness is tight. It's very straight-forward, which might help. The seat I helped install was an older model and there was a double-harness, and every time I turned the knob to tighten the harness, it felt like I was squishing the poor kid, but then I'd check and there'd still be tons of slack. It's a bit weird until you get used to it, but considering the fact that your dh & his family aren't "used" to anything yet anyway, this could be exactly what they need.

[lovinwaves]

Next time you are around DD's Dad, or his family do this demo:

Put her in the seat with her coat on, tighten the straps. Then take her out of the seat, take her coat off, then put her back in (do not tighten the straps). Then show them that is essentially what is suppose to hold her in the seat in the event of an accident. :twocents:

[NZ Child Restraints]

Don't leave a seat and pick her up yourself until he listens?

[ThreeBeans]

I'm not talking about a restraining order; I'm talking about making it a requirement of visitation that the carseats are used correctly.

[MagnificentMama]

I'm not talking about a restraining order; I'm talking about making it a requirement of visitation that the carseats are used correctly.

It's still unfortuntely unrealistic. Judges/lawyers don't care about correct car seat use. It'd be awesome if both parties agree to put that in a custody order, but unless both parties agree to it; judges just don't care about it.

Again, i'm not trying to be mean by any means, but i'm just trying to remain realistic about what you can "threaten" in court.

I do agree with everyone else though, just make it that the misuse is limited. Buy a thinner jacket, always make sure that she's buckled up correctly and you show her being buckled up correctly. Hopefully they'll stop being mean and spiteful and understand that you're only looking out for your child and her best interests.

[papooses]

It's still unfortuntely unrealistic. Judges/lawyers don't care about correct car seat use.
I agree that it's unlikely -- however, my Judge was awesome! Correct child safety seat use according to the manual + MY instruction are part of my custody/visitation orders :thumbsup::love: (it helps that I'm a CPST & documented instances of potentially fatal misuse, submitting with articles where children had died)

[vamom]

I agree with Miss Mommy, sadly family/divorce courts usually won't even here this. My ex tried to kill us and blatently told the court and custody evualuater (he was bragging about it), but he still got visitation. In his first unsupervised visitation he beat ds. I witheld visitation pending a hearing. I got jail time. Ex got three times the visitation that he previously had (even with photos and testimony). Ex injured ds repeatedly - it took 6 months to get a hearing. Believe me no one wanted to hear about the recalled, crappy, improproperly installed and improperly used car seat - I was told to get over that. Around here, the police don't even seem to care if kids are properly restrained.

If at all possible, you do not want to get in a power struggle with an ex. Get an easy seat (hey I should send you my evenflo titan- the seat adjuster strap jams and it takes an act of God to the move the darn thing), get a thin coat or something, or find someone they would listen to. Is it possible for you to transport her?

It is really hard getting use to having someone else make decisions about your child and not having much say. Sorry.

I have the old truimph with the double straps. I recommended to friends because I thought it was easier to place the child in without having to adjust the straps, since the double strap allowed more room to get the child in and out. Quite honestly, I had never thought about loosening the harness to place the child in - I just adjusted it if they grew and from season to season with clothes changes. I do know that the knobs on the side of the evenflo seem to freak folks out, so maybe they won't want to mess with it?

I just had a friend who tried for nearly a decade to have a child (including very exensive treatments), who had come to me for car seat advice and said she was getting a boulevard because she wouldn't feel safe without the true side impact protection, show up at friend's house with her ds ff in a fully reclined, untethered, very loose evenflo seat at 9 months! I cannot tell you how angry and sad I felt. It seems that it was too inconvenient to rf, he likes it reclined, he doesn't like the straps tight, blah, blah, blah....

[MagnificentMama]

I agree with Miss Mommy, sadly family/divorce courts usually won't even here this. My ex tried to kill us and blatently told the court and custody evualuater (he was bragging about it), but he still got visitation.

This is exactly what i'm talking about. Considering the amount of horrible testimony these people deal with on a daily basis, some person requesting a correct car seat clause is just unrealistic. (i know it's been on the news lately b/c of Miss Spears, but she is an extreme case of total stupidity) It would be wonderful, and I"m totally all for having that type of clause- but you have to realize that judges get totally unbelievable requests on a daily basis. They just don't want to hear it anymore and when you do suggest it, they get even more pissed off at you and shoot down all of your requests. You get your standard hearing- evaluation of custody, child support, and primary residential placement.

Courts are very unsympathetic to "unreasonable demands". It sucks, but unfortunately it is what it is. If this is that important to you and you'd like to be able to put it into a custody agreement, i highly recomend seeking out a mediator and trying to go that route because it just won't happen in any type of family court situation.

Papooses- that is wonderful that you were able to put that in! I'm assuming it was a special circumstance given your training about car seat safety. I didn't even think about it during our custody hoopla!

[NOAHSMOM]

You never know, the judge in my divorce case was like "Is there anything I can do for you?", but it is definetly tough and any time you want to argue something it just lengthens the process and costs more money and drags it out. I didn't contest the divorce, so I don't think I had any rights, but the judge was really nice and spent a lot of time on our case even though we were pretty agreeable.

I am in control of what jacket my son wears and I purchased the seat, so it works. I really hope you guys get to the place were you can communication effectively about your child.

[papooses]

Papooses- that is wonderful that you were able to put that in! I'm assuming it was a special circumstance given your training about car seat safety. I didn't even think about it during our custody hoopla!

I'm sure it was that + the fact that my ex had driven Leila without my consent after his lisence had been taken away from multiple DWIs + he never showed up for any hearings & failed to show up to any of his required addiction counseling sessions or any of the temporarily supervised visits ... so while the judge didn't remove visitation altogether, he ordered that they are forever supervised with correct safety seat usage (also added that he can never appeal!)

*****HUGS VAMOM*****

[Mom2Livi]

I feel compelled to say that besides the car seat misuse, he does a fine job. DD comes home perfectly happy, with a full belly and a bath. I'd also like to point out the fact that we were never married, the truth is that DD was a "whoops" baby and the two of us were never really meant to be together in the first place (of course she is a blessing, and we love her dearly). :whistle: We have actually managed to work things out amongst ourselves, without getting the courts involved (but of course I have gotten legal advice and all of that is there if I need it).

Of course there are things about him and his family that really irk me, and I do believe that they do things to spite me sometimes, and of course I wrote out this post because I was frusterated with them and needed an ear to complain... :o Of course car seat misuse is not a minor thing IMO, and I know many of you here feel the same way I do.

Anyway, thank you so much for all of your input, I really appreciate it! :thumbsup: I will take your advice about the fleece bunting or coat, she actually has a fleece snowsuit that will be perfect and I don't know why I didn't think of that before.

[lodonal65]

I was in this position with my ex a little while ago. I talked to him to I was blue in the face about how things should be done to make her safe.
The only thing that made him listen was when I told him that IF anything happened to her while in his care I would sue the shit out of him for damages/neglect he caused by refusing to listen.

[dhardawa]

We have actually managed to work things out amongst ourselves, without getting the courts involved



Hold up, am I understanding this correctly? There is no court ordered visitation? If so, this is simple. Until they can correctly restrain her, they don't see her. My daughter's father and I were never married and never involved the courts either, but he knows how passionate I am aboug car seats and he knows if he refuses to properly restrain her he won't get to see her. That is a big stipulation. He can see her anytime he wants, but I will not allow him to endanger her life (and break the law with her) to do so.

[papooses]

There is no court ordered visitation? If so, this is simple. Until they can correctly restrain her, they don't see her.

That's probably the route I'd go as well -- I'd provide him (+ maybe the "inlaws") with the necessary printed resources & demand they provide proof of a visit to a local tech ... then they could have visits without my being present: otherwise, this mama bear ain't letting kiddo's life be at risk when I am not legally FORCED to :o I'd let them see kiddo, but only with me at her side 100% :twocents:

[MagnificentMama]

Hold up, am I understanding this correctly? There is no court ordered visitation? If so, this is simple. Until they can correctly restrain her, they don't see her.

There ya go! i thought there was a court order. My bad. Simply tell them either he listens to you about the safety of your child or he can come over to your house every day for visitation because he can't be trusted to safely transport her :D

[safeinthecar]

tell them either he listens to you about the safety of your child or he can come over to your house every day for visitation because he can't be trusted to safely transport her :D


I think this is a good idea but only as a last resort, and only as leverage if he refuses to talk to you about it like resonable adults. (ie: you'lkl resume visitation after he agree's to meet with you to talk about things)

First, before you force the issue, invite him out to coffee, sans baby,sans interfering family, to talk. Tell him what a great job you think he's doing as a dad, but that you want to make sure you two have an open line of communication at all times. Come up with a plan for certain things you two can agree that you want to be consistent at both houses. By all means, don't make it all about car seats. I'm sure that there are things that you do with DD that he finds annoying or would like some input on. This is good. It gives you negotiating room. In the long run, regular meetings to discuss DD and each other will only be good for all involved as long as the talks don't turn into mud slinging sessions.

I have this kind of relationship with my oldest DD's dad and it is really a great thing. I wish I could have this arrangment with the two younger kid's dad, but there is no negotiating with a drunk, drug user who has absolutely no interest in being a parent. My two youngest really suffer from this.

I personally would be really hesitant to restrict a child from an otherwise good parent for this issue. CPS is a very hard to swallow concept for people who would really rather believe that nothing can possibly happen to a much loved child. ( head in sand mentality) Bad CPS practices do not= bad parents. I know many very good parents who are not car seat savvy at all. Conversely, I know several really horrible parents who are really good at car seats. My youngest children's father is a former tech. I know without a doubt that he wouldn't dream of putting them in the car without properly restraining them. But I also know that he is not capable of taking care of them in any other place, and that he is not likely to be sober enough to drive said car once he buckles them up properly.