Would use a seat that expired a week ago?

[Elizasmom]

We have a Fisher Price Safe Embrace that expires at 8 years. It’s solid as anything as anyone who has one will know – steel belt path. Anyway, we’re going to visit my brother in Portland for a week next summer and I want to take this seat and then ditch it there. It would be so convenient to only have to lug it one way. However, the seat expires on August 4, 2008. Do you think I need to plan my trip before August to feel okay using this seat?! Would it be so terrible to use it the second week of August? I know this shouldn’t matter, but it has been stored inside for at least 6 years. It got very little use. I guess I can plan our trip around the expiration date, but it seems a bit nuts.

I would never normally use an expired seat, but, rationally, it doesn’t make sense that there would be any significant difference in the seat a week after it expires vs. a week before. Also, if I don’t take it, I would have to take our main seat and risk damage to it (hidden or otherwise) which would make me uneasy. I would never take a flight with a seat I use daily – just makes me nervous. On the other hand, the FP is perfect for that as it is basically indestructible.

[mom2riley]

*I* wouldn't use it. I just think that 8yrs is a very long time and I wouldn't be comfortable with it.

[azgirl71]

As a tech I will have to say "No, I would not use the seat"

This will have to be one of those parental decisions. Out here in AZ we don't even recommend using a seat past 6 yo from DOM even if it has a 8 yr life. The temperatures are really hard on them. I wish I could help you more. I just would not feel safe using it in the off chance that something were to happen and the seat failed.

ETA: Typos

[keri1292]

I'm a little confused? Why wouldn't you take your normal seat? And where would the child sit on the way home?

[cryswilkins]

Well, to me there is not some magical thing that happens when the seat hits the 8 year mark. However...... if the state has a proper use clause that could be a snafu. I agree with the PP it would be a parental decision.

[Jewels]

I wouldn't. I'm glad my ds wasn't even in the seat that expires December of this year when he was in a collision with my in-laws last weekend. I felt he would be safer in a seat that wasn't so close to expiring just in case something happened and it did. I was glad that I had switched the seats.

[Susan in MI]

It is a parental decision. There is no way a seat is perfectly safe one day and unsafe the next just because a sticker on the side says it was made 6 or 8 years ago. How much leeway is built into expiry dates is unknown so I wouldn't push it by much. Given that you know the history of the seat and it has spent much of it's life in a controlled, indoor, environment, I would be more comfortable. If it had been in extreme temps for those 8 year, probably not.

I'm not a tech however, that is just my personal opinion as a mom.

[Elizasmom]

I knew that would come up :)! I know others feel differently, but she will be 3.5 and would sit in the airplane seat and I have no problem with that. Air travel is unbelievably safe, and there is just no comparison between not using a car seat on a plane vs. on a car. You’d probably have to fly 1,000 times without a car seat to = the danger of driving 10 feet without a car seat. I made that up, but it’s probably not far off. Plus, if an airliner crashes you’re almost certainly dead anyway. Car seats aren’t crash tested for dropping a mile out of the sky. My DD would go absolutely nuts on a plane in a car seat, and I would be stressed out of my mind installing and lugging it through the airport. It’s a “risk" I’m willing to take as I see it as about as dangerous as crossing the street. Since she can sit in a seat with the lapbelt on the plane, I am not worried about turbulance.

Even if we did take our main seat on the plane, I wouldn’t like it. I would be afraid something would happen to it. I am very careful with my main seats. For example, I once saw a young couple carrying their Britax seat through the airport by the harness straps. I would die if my DH did that without thinking or if they go caught on something, dropped, etc. I know, not entirely rational.

Thank you for the comments about the seat expiration. I do feel comfortable using it before August 4 because it does have an 8 year expiration and has not been in extreme conditions. However, I won’t use it once expired more out of conviction that one shouldn’t than anything else. We’ll probably just go earlier in the summer or buy a Scenera online and have it ship to Portland (FP that expired a week earlier is probably still safer than a new Scenera due to EPS and great SIP, so there is a lack of logic in this!).

[Susan in MI]

I like the idea of shipping a Scenera to your destination. Then, it can be donated to a needy family also when you are done with it. It is a win-win situation!

[Elizasmom]

Donating is a nice idea! I was actually thinking of bringing it back (still saves me the lugging it there) or leaving it to use next time we visit. My brother has another friend who visits him with a toddler, so she could use it too.

[CDNTech]

Children do survive plane crashes. Just a few months ago there was an airplane crash where everyone *but* the harnessed 3 year old died.

Not to mention... sudden stops on runways, runway collisions, heavy turbulence. All of these are completely survivable occasions on an airplane... provided a child is secured properly in an appropriate restraint. Children in just the airlines lapbelt are at an increased risk for ejection or submarining under the seatbelt causing internal injuries that can easily be fatal.

I think it's worth the hassle to take the seat on the plane. If your daughter will be 3.5 at the time of travel that means she's not quite 3 years old now. Which means the last time you flew with her she was at the most 2 years old. I don't really know of *any* two year olds that are happy to be strapped down and told they can't move. ;)

I think if you take her seat on the plane you will be pleasantly surprised to find her more comfortable and she will not be squirming trying to get out of just a lapbelt that is not safe for her in the first place.

We flew in October with my 5.5 year old. He only weighs 35lbs and the lapbelt of the airline did *not* fit him correctly.

So, I know that's totally not the post you wanted to hear, but it's important to correct misinformation when it gets posted. ;)

FWIW, I would probably not use the expired FP seat. If you are adamant about not taking a seat on the plane, then I like the idea of having a Scenera ready for you at your destination... just be sure to try one out here in the vehicle before you go. You don't want to get there just to find out that she no longer fits in it.

Edited to Add: I just wanted to make it clear that I am not attacking you but rather pointing out the fact that there are *many* ways children can be injured by a lapbelt on an airplane that do *not* involve the plane falling out of the sky. Yes, statistically airplanes are safer than car travel however, accidents do still happen and the parent with the injured child could care less that they are statistically safer, kwim?

[Jewels]

Here's the article that Aidensmom02 is talking about and it is discussed here (http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=28085&highlight=plane+crash):

Toddler who survived fatal B.C. plane crash to be flown to Calgary hospital

Mon Oct 29, 1:43 PM

By The Canadian Press

GOLDEN, B.C. - Search-and-rescue officials say a three-year-old girl
survived a plane crash that killed her grandfather and another man near
Golden, B.C., because she was strapped into a child's car seat.

The girl, who suffered head injuries but is stable in hospital, has been
reunited with her parents.

The girl and her parents are to be flown to the Alberta Children's Hospital
in Calgary.

The Cessna 172 was heading to Edmonton and had just taken off from Golden
when it crashed into rugged forested terrain Sunday in the Blaeberry River
area.

Rescuers say bad weather hampered search efforts and rescue technicians
eventually had to be lowered down to the crash site from a private
helicopter.

The names of the victims have not been released and the cause of the crash
is under investigation.
__________________

[Elizasmom]

I was already familiar with the case of the little girl who survived in her seat, but I just don’t find it a very compelling argument. She is probably the only case like that ever, and I would never even allow my children to fly in the type of plane she was on. This was not an airliner and those little personal planes crash all the time. They also fly lower I believe.

We all take calculated risks every day, and riding on an airplane without a seat is one that I am comfortable taking. I am much more nervous simply driving to the airport with the kids properly restrained in one of the safest vehicles out there. I think by putting car seats on airplanes in the same sentence with car seats in cars you may diminish how seriously people take auto safety. It is the #1 killer, and there is no comparison.

I do agree that the seatbelt on the plane is not and was not a good fit for her. She could easily squirm her way out. I don't want to mislead anyone about that.

[CDNTech]

The #1 killer of children is NOT vehicle collisions.

It is children improperly restrained in collisions... that goes for vehicles of ALL sorts, including airplanes. :)

For the record, that little girl surviving is not a single occurrence and accidents happen on airliners as well. They may not be as common but they do happen. You just never hear about them because unless that plane went up in a ball of smoke, it's not really newsworthy these days.

There is so much information you learn and videos you see in a tech course, that you may just find yourself changing your stance after taking the course. ;)

[Elizasmom]

I see, but if you take away airplane crashes from "kids killed in collisions", kids killed in cars would still be the #1 killer. You're lumping them together because they both involve collisions and car seats so they seem to belong in the same category. However, that doesn't mean they involve remotely the same risk. I could just as easily say "car accidents and shark attacks combined are the number one killer". Anything you group with "collisions" for statistical purposes will appear to be a "number one killer" even if it really isn't. I hope this makes sense.

I suppose I could be converted. I doubt it, but we shall see. Right now, I am far more concerned about not having blinds with cords and anchoring all my dressers and bookcases to the wall.

[joolsplus3]

Not to mention, one of the greatest risks of plane crashes comes from smoke inhalation due to not getting off the plane fast enough...carseats may in fact be harmful when you consider that...

Whole bunch of risks, and no, they can't be lumped together, it's true...

:twocents:

[ZephyrBlue]

I'll be the voice of dissent ;) But I would use a FPSE that had expired the previous week before I would put my child in a Scenera with no EPS foam, provided that the seat had not been stored in extreme temperatures for the majority of those 8 years. Just my :twocents:, though, and I'm not a tech :)

[CDNTech]

If the airplane seat is not a good fit for her, then I'm confused why you would not use a carseat? :confused:

I absolutely understand that we all have to weigh different risks, I just don't like the excuses/reasons that go along with those risks. I think it's unfair for the person coming along and reading the thread to think well "airplanes are safer than cars so I don't need a carseat".

Just a simple we've weighed the risks and are prepared to live with the consequences should something happen, kwim? :)

I do realize that carseats could become harmful if a plane were to go up in smoke. This is where I weigh the risks of an airplane going up in smoke (highly unlikely from statistics) to an airplane having an emergency/sudden stop on the runway or turbulence (much more likely).

My personal decision is based on the fact that they are more likely to have a sudden runway stop or heavy turbulence so my kids fly harnessed to protect against that.

I have had my youngest fly as a lap baby. We had the Marathon on board for my oldest to use and the Radian in the overhead bin as carry-on. Luckily 20 minutes into take-off we got a seat for the 20 month old so he went into the Marathon and I pulled the Radian down for my 5 year old.

The reason I say luckily is because we experienced heavy turbulence for 20 minutes just before we landed. That turbulence had me bouncing around and flying up in my lapbelt... I was so thankful that both kids were strapped into their seats and they have never flown without their own harnessed seats since. :)

[CandCfam]

:twocents:Not to mention, one of the greatest risks of plane crashes comes from smoke inhalation due to not getting off the plane fast enough...carseats may in fact be harmful when you consider that...



I guess I view that scenario differently, in relation to an unrestrained lap child though, they would stand a greater chance of smoke inhallation if they are lost in the rubble. Had they been strapped in CSR, they should be easier to find and remove from danger.

OP as for the use of an expired seat, I'd probably be fine with it. I'd say my own personal cut-off for what I'd be comfortable with would be 3 or more weeks passed expiration.
Though, 8 years is a long time, and I am not familiar with the FPSE, so what materials it is comprised of might change my mind on if I'd use it 1 week passed expiration or not.:twocents:

[Melizerd]

The thing about carseats on a plane or in a car is we never know which time is the time that we will need it. If that were the case we'd never have accidents, and if *I* had an accident and I didn't do everything possible I'd always wonder if the carseat would have made the difference.

I'd use the seat on the plane because of turbulance too.

So if you have ANY other seat you can take I would take it and use it, both on the plane and in the car. I wouldn't use the seat past the expiration. I also realize a seat that's fine on Monday isn't a death trap on Tuesday but unless there were NO other options I wouldn't do it because again I'd always blame myself if something happened.

It really comes down to a parental decision, and I find most of the time by the time we ask other people about those type of decisions we already know which answer we WANT to hear because we've made up our mind already.

[skaterbabscpst]

Planes have collisions on the ground too. And the physics of those are just like in a car - meaning lap-only belts (especially poorly fitting ones) are not a good thing for children.

I'm not flying any time soon, but if I were MY 42 lb four year old would NOT be in the plane's lap belt.

[azgirl71]

Planes have collisions on the ground too. And the physics of those are just like in a car - meaning lap-only belts (especially poorly fitting ones) are not a good thing for children.

I'm not flying any time soon, but if I were MY 42 lb four year old would NOT be in the plane's lap belt.

I agree 110% :)

[mommy2env]

I have had my youngest fly as a lap baby. We had the Marathon on board for my oldest to use and the Radian in the overhead bin as carry-on. Luckily 20 minutes into take-off we got a seat for the 20 month old so he went into the Marathon and I pulled the Radian down for my 5 year old.

The reason I say luckily is because we experienced heavy turbulence for 20 minutes just before we landed. That turbulence had me bouncing around and flying up in my lapbelt... I was so thankful that both kids were strapped into their seats and they have never flown without their own harnessed seats since. :)


May I ask why your youngest wasnt in a CR since the flight took off? :confused:

The way you put it out there, it seems as though you chose not to buy a plane ticket and then were allowed to use an empty one. I am correct to assume that?

Not trying to be Snarky, just curiousity. :)

[dd9736]

even when I flew with my DS in arms, I wished I could afford an extra seat for him, we had no turbulence, but he would have been soooo much happier, and I would have been more comfortable, as he fell asleep after takeoff, and woke up just before landing.

[CDNTech]

May I ask why your youngest wasnt in a CR since the flight took off? :confused:

The way you put it out there, it seems as though you chose not to buy a plane ticket and then were allowed to use an empty one. I am correct to assume that?

Not trying to be Snarky, just curiousity. :)

We did choose not to buy a plane ticket. I knew better but we didn't think we had the extra $1700 to get him a seat. It was a risk I took and I am both extremely lucky and blessed that we were able to get both boys into carseats before the rough turbulence happened on that flight.

We had hoped to be able to snag an available seat since it was not a full flight... however, it ended up being a full flight. 20 minutes after take-off the FA found my husband an extra seat 4 rows away from us and I was allowed to put both kids in seats.

I am soooo thankful I didn't have to learn a lesson the hard way and my kids will always have seats now. Now we budget seats for everyone or we don't go, period.

I cringe at the words 'chose not to buy a plane ticket'... that seems so harsh, but in reality it's true. Everything in life is a choice and we will not be making that choice/mistake again. :)

[Elizasmom]

I am careful about what I say on this board because of the point someone else made about people who come here for help possibly being misinformed. On the other hand, people are constantly bombarded with info on all the dangers in the world that they may stop worrying about any of it, including the really significant dangers. I think this is one of the reasons people are so relaxed about car seat safety in the first place.

[CDNTech]

people are constantly bombarded with info on all the dangers in the world that they may stop worrying about any of it, including the really significant dangers. I think this is one of the reasons people are so relaxed about car seat safety in the first place.

I just don't agree with this at all. The majority of the parents I know are either conscientious about all aspects of their children's safety or none of it.

The parents that I know that do not have carseats installed/used properly, don't do most other safety things properly either. For that matter, they barely look after their kids period. :(

Parents that come to forums are generally looking for more information. They don't generally consider it bombarding them with info since they are here seeking it out.

[Melizerd]

I haven't found that to be the case at all. I find most people are just clueless because their pedi said it was okay to be FFing, or they never heard of WHY carseats expire etc.

I'm a freak about seats but I'm SUPER laid back about most things, more so then most moms I know (especially first time moms).

[Momof4Girls]

I'm one fo those freaky people, too, that is only that OCD about carseats! Oh, and somewhat about food ;)

As far as other things, I'm pretty laid back. Kids fall and get hurt, etc.

Raechel

[CDNTech]

I am not talking about putting toilet seat locks, door locks, outlet covers, ect.

I'm talking about basic safety... not letting your 4 year old go 4 blocks away to the park on their own, not letting your 3 year old play in the *busy* street on their own, not letting your 2 year old make her own breakfast, ect. These are the people that I see not using carseats properly and not caring when told they are not using them properly.

For the majority of the parents I encounter, if it's truly just a case of being uneducated, they are thankful they got the info and they start doing it correctly.

I don't think buckling in a carseat properly can be considered OCD. It's a basic safety requirement like wearing a bicycle helmet (which is also a law here).

[skaterbabscpst]

:yeahthat: What Jen said. :2thumbsup:

[singingpond]

Going back to the question in the OP, about using a seat 1 week past expiration date -- my personal opinion is that I wouldn't have any qualms at all about doing this. IF you believe in the manufacturer's 8-year expiration date, and IF you know the history of the seat (especially the fact that it has been in indoor storage for much of the time, IIRC), I just don't for a moment believe that anything terrible will go wrong with the seat within 1 week of the expiration date. I'm not trying to start a 'slippery slope' argument -- the specific question was about ONE WEEK past expiration, not one month, two months, six months, etc.

I'm not a tech, but I do have a scientific/engineering background (nothing specifically related to carseat materials or manufacture -- I'm not claiming any specific expertise), so I view data and test results from that general perspective. If something still has an acceptable percentage of its original strength when it's 8 years old, it's not suddenly going to reach the point of failure at 8 years plus 1 week old -- the standards should require MUCH more of a 'cushion' than that.

Katrin