Chevy Astro or other - Please help!

[Unregistered]

We need to purchase a new vehicle so that we will have enough room to safely transport our whole family. I am due in May, and have four other children, for what will be a total of five children, plus two adults. We have three children in Jupiter Komfort Kruiser booster seats, one special needs child in a Britax Wizard, and will probably get a Britax for the new baby, although I haven't finalized what type.

Based on our budget and what we thought we'd fit in, we wanted a Toyota Sienna, or maybe a Honda Odyssey. My husband stressed that we could get a 04 or 05 Dodge Grand Caravan which would meet our budget better, and we went last night to look at it and purchase. Well, there is no way that all the booster and car seats will fit. It makes me wonder if they'd fit in the Sienna or Odyssey either.
The car salesperson went and came back with a 2004 Chevrolet Astro. Do any of you know anything about these??? We were impresssed that there was enough room to fit everyone! There is one latch in the middle of the second row, and shoulder belts (I don't think they retract?) on the outer positions of second and third rows. Middle third row is a lap belt. My husband would have purchased it right there, but we said we would think it over and call back today. Well, last night I looked at the safety ratings and it received "POOR" marks in the offset crash test.

Is anyone familiar with the Astro? We don't want painstakingly secure our children in a vehicle, only to have it be unsafe! On the other hand, is it better that everyone fits well into the vehicle, not too close to the back window, etc like the back seat of some minivans.
Please give me any comments or suggestions - is there a roomier minivan? This forum helped me so much when choosing my infant seats and booster seats - please help me now!
Connie

[papooses]

http://www.suvsafety.info/ http://www.crashtest.com http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ratings.htm http://gmtv.feedroom.com/iframeset.jsp?ord=795232 http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/childps/BASCkids2003/basc2k2.html#6I think that if I were faced with the same choice, I would only get the Astro if I knew I'd be transporting more kids on a regular basis in addition to my own.... I do think you'll be able to safely & comfortably/easily enough secure your children in a Sienna {the 3rd row of which is not as close to the rear window as other older make & model minivans} :) GOOD LUCK!

[CPSDarren]

The Astro is a very dated vehicle, and historically has had mediocre crash test ratings and relatively high rollover risk compared to most minivans. I think you will also find the ride and handling much less forgiving than a modern minivan. Unless you are towing or need 9 or more passengers, I'd think you should be able to find a minivan that will work for your needs.

A 7 or 8 passenger Odyssey or Sienna should work fine for most situations. Granted, the KK is a relatively large booster.

[UlrikeDG]

My understanding is that the Sienna has pretty decent passenger room. I'm actually supposed to test drive one tomorrow, so I haven't been inside one yet, but I think that if it were me, I'd got with the Sienna with 3rd row airbags (plus AWD, Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) & Traction Control (TRAC) if possible), and get new boosters if the Komfort Kruisers don't fit.

You didn't mention your kids' ages, but there are some fairly inexpensive high backed boosters and back less boosters start at $17, so that won't necessarily be a huge expense. Honestly, I'd be surprised if you had to replace all 3. If they don't all fit, I bet you'd only have to replace one of them.

[Merrymommy]

Thank you for all of your input and ideas!

I have two boys, ages 11 and 10, and two girls, ages 6 and 2, with a baby on the way. The two boys are rather small, and don't weigh more than 67 pounds each, which is why they use the booster seats. Our 2 year old has a medical condition that causes uncontrollable seizures, so we are very happy with the Wizard for her.

Unfortunately, I can't find any Siennas in our price range. My husband found a Chevy Venture yesterday that has three full size seats, so it would work, although I haven't investigated anything about the Venture yet as far as safety records, etc. It does fit our budget, and it's not an Astro!!! (I did really want a Sienna, though. We have such medical expenses with my daughter that I don't see our budget changing anytime in the next five years.)

The idea about possibly getting other booster seats that might not take up as much room is a good one. Right now we have a 1993 Plymouth Voyager, and where they sit in the back row seems so close to the back door, plus the seat backs are so low, that I insisted we get something like the Jupiters for them. We might have more flexibility now, because I wouldn't even consider a vehicle with such low seat backs. (Now my husband uses that as his work vehicle, and he works two jobs, so we don't really have a vehicle; which is why we're looking now before we have a new baby too.)

If any of you have any more ideas, please throw them at me!
Connie

[mamamia]

If you could do a Sienna, I can tell you that the 7 passenger 04 does indeed hold 5 children in seats pretty comfortably. I would avoid the 8 passenger model, becaue you will have to flip one of the second row seats forward to access the third row.

Have you considered a used odyssey? The pre-2005 models are about the same size as the 04-05 siennas.

What I have done in my third row is two turboboosters and a ffing wizard, 1 turbo, i evenflo backless and a ffing Wizard. I think 3 turboboosters would fit back there, but if not, there certainly are narrower boosters. I have also had other combinations of seats back there-3 convertibles, two convertibles and a combination seat, 2 combination seats and a convertible. I know Toyota lowered prices from 2003 to 2004 models, and a friend was just looking at 05 models and they are even cheaper than what I paid for my 04 model 18 months ago.

[papooses]

Chevy Venture recieves a poor rating from IIHS & marginal overall.

At www.crashtest.com the minivans are in the "truck" categories, so you won't find the Chevy Astro or Venture by clicking Chevrolet ~ you have to click Chevy Truck. Same thing there for other makes/models. I was confused by that at first {LOL} IIHS crash test ratings for all passenger vans (http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summaries/vans_front_c.htm)My friend has a '98 Ford Windstar & last summer her newborn was in the middle 3rd row seat, three & six year olds in CarGos in the middle bench {3 y.o. harnessed behind driver & 6 y.o. boostered in the middle}. I managed then to get my toddler's Wizard secured on the driver side of the 3rd row & my older niece boostered in a CarGo on the other side. But, last time I saw her the baby was behind the the driver, toddler behind baby & older kiddo in the other outboard position with a "life-sized" cloth dolly buckled between them {LOL} Mom was sitting next to baby on the middle bench. I think I'd have been able to fit the Wizard in the 3rd row center position if I'd tried & I'm sure a booster would fit in the remaining seat of the middle bench.... The Windstar doesn't have AWD, but her husband says it handles well :)

[sirrahn]

I would avoid the 8 passenger model, becaue you will have to flip one of the second row seats forward to access the third row.

I really have to disagree with that statement. It really is not a big deal as long as you only have a booster there (pull it off, flip the seat and put it back.) The big kids would only need backless boosters there anyway.

Personally I think that would be much preferable to having 3 kids crammed in the 3rd row all the time. The 2nd row is very roomy for 3, and 2 kids in the rear outboard have plenty of space. 3 across the 3rd row is do-able, but quite cramped IMO.

I will have 4 carseats in my 8 passenger in a couple of months and I'm sure I'll have 3 in the 2nd row quite often.

[mamamia]

That's why I said "I would avoid..." I really don't care for the 8 passenger, but that is only my opinion. Glad to hear you like yours though. I would love to have my 3 girls in the second row, but I need access to the third row almost on a daily basis (many days I have 4 or 5 kids with me), and since none of my children ride in a booster now, I would have to put one of them in the third row anyway. I'm sure this is a practical choice for some families, but not ours at this time.

[UlrikeDG]

Regarding the 8 passenger Sienna, I climbed around in one today. I didn't try any seats in it, because Nadia fell asleep on the way to the dealer; HOWEVER, my impression was that it would be a tight fit to get 3 seats in the 3rd row. The 3rd row is significantly narrower than the 2nd. I didn't have a tape measure, so I don't know how it compares to your average compact sedan, but one thing I did notice is that the LATCH anchors overlapped with the seatbelts, like this:

S L _____ L S|S L __ S S L ___ S

* S is where the seatbelt attaches or buckles, L is a LATCH anchor, and | is the crack for the 40/60 split. Both LATCH positions have top tether anchors, but the 3rd position does not.

This means that a seat installed in the center position will actually cover up the buckle for the outboard, driver's side seating position. Additionally, the space between the seatbelt anchor & buckle in the center position is very narrow - probably too narrow to fit a car seat. It might be doable. The senior tech happened to be at the dealer at the same time I was, and she thought it might be possible to install a seat outboard, and then put a seat in the center using LATCH, but we didn't try it out. It would be a long shot.

The 3rd row is roomier and more comfortable than the 3rd row in my Honda Pilot, but I wouldn't want 3 adults back there, and I doubt that 3 car seats would fit without a lot of finagling, if they fit at all.

[mamamia]

When I put 3 seats in the 3rd row I use the seat belts because of the way the lower anchors are placed. I don't know why they are the way they are. I have had a FF Wizard, FF Roundabout and a ?FF Smartmove (not my seat) back there, as well as a FF Wz, FF RA and a Graco UltraCargo. I can't use our FPSE in a three across situation in the third row. I have had our 2 wizards side by side in the third row using latch, and there is no way to add a third seat with that combo. The two wizards actually don't even touch one another when side by side installed with the lower anchors.

With 1 FF wizard in the back row, my sister was able to squeeze in 2 of those cosco backless boosters-I forget the name, but they are around $15 at walmart.

[Merrymommy]

Thank you all for your great information, resources, and advice! We had to balance safety concerns, number of children to transport (5) and budgetary constraints. Today we purchased a 2003 Ford Windstar SEL. It has high, adjustable backs on all but the center back row. My husband feels a little sad, because he really, really fell in love with the Chevy Astro. (!) I just couldn't get past its safety record. Even though it had much, much more storage space than we will now have, I was so worried about its crash rating, rollover rating, and other questionable safety-related matters. I even emailed my husband pictures from the offset crash results to illustrate the point. I know he is going to be upset when he sees just how little room there is when everyone is in the minivan (he's at work now) and there's no room for storage if a stroller is there, but it's hard to accomplish everything with such a large family! Anyway, thank you again for your help! I used the LATCH system for the first time today!

[sirrahn]

Additionally, the space between the seatbelt anchor & buckle in the center position is very narrow - probably too narrow to fit a car seat.

Personally, the only thing I'm comfortable using in that middle spot with the seatbelt is my SR/C and even that just barely fits between the anchors. Putting a seat in the middle with LATCH does make the driver's outboard position basically unusable.