Mighty Tite... holy crap I didn't realize!!

[nic073]

I'm ducking my head here as I'm sure you're all throwing your confiscated Mighty Tites my way. YIKES. DH and I use the MT and always thought it was "the best" way to get our seats tight.

HELP! I have no idea how to make sure it is super tight. We have a toy/baby store in town that teaches carseat classes and when P was in the Graco Snugride, we took it in to have them help us with the base. Neither of our vehicles have Latch, and when we'd pull the seatbelt tight, it would lift the infant base up so that it was off the seat of the car. I think they were the ones that recommended the MT.

I haven't tried putting P's AOE in without it (I'm going to go try as soon as I'm done typing this), but I just can't imagine getting it in tight enough. My belt has the "clicking" lock when I pull it all the way out and then release it. Is that what I want to do to get it tight?

HELP!!

[sfeitler]

I haven't tried putting P's AOE in without it (I'm going to go try as soon as I'm done typing this), but I just can't imagine getting it in tight enough. My belt has the "clicking" lock when I pull it all the way out and then release it. Is that what I want to do to get it tight?

HELP!!

Yes, the clicking lock is what you want to use to get the seat in tight. That's an ALR switchable retractor, I think.

With infant seats, it's not uncommon to have a locking seatbelt pull the infant seat up to one side. In that case, a locking clip can be used instead of the seatbelt's own locking mechanism.

In a larger convertible, like the AOE, it's unlike the seatbelt will cause the seat to tip. So you're probably fine just using the ratcheting lock your seatbelt has.

Definitely don't use the MT. Throw it out and don't look back. ;)

Shame on that baby store...

-Sarah

[joolsplus3]

Don't panic :).
Which car? Is the seat forward facing or rearfacing? There's *plenty* of good safe tricks to learn to get a good installation without the MT, we'll walk you through it!

:)

[Melizerd]

are you trying to install it in the center or the outboard, you might have to move it to get a good fit.

[nic073]

Don't panic :).
Which car? Is the seat forward facing or rearfacing? There's *plenty* of good safe tricks to learn to get a good installation without the MT, we'll walk you through it!

:)

It is the AOE, FF in my Hyundai Santa Fe. I don't have Latch.

I tried kneeling in it, pulling the seat belt all the way out and then releasing. It still had a good 4" of wiggle room. Ridiculous. I took it to the Toy House and spoke with the owner (who again, swore by the Mighty Tite, said he's discussed these claims with Sunshine Co. etc etc.). He installed it with the locking clip, still loose. Put the Mighty Tite back on (since he swore it was totally fine, and that Sunshine Co has done numerous tests on the effects on the seat, car, plastic, belt etc) and for now, until I can get another Tech at our local police dept to help me, I feel safer with it being wiggle free with the MT than having 4" of wiggle room without it.

Unless I can figure out a better way via you guys LOL... I'm hoping that your explanations can help me so I won't have to use the MT to feel like its in tight.

Do you want me to take pics of it?

Oh, and it is outboard. I had it in the middle before, and thats fine. However I'm preg and due in May, so come May we'll have both seats outboard. So, even though I could probably get the seat tighter in the middle, that won't solve the the problem come May when at least one of my seats would have to go outboard... in which I could *never* get the Snugride tight without the MT, and now I can't get the AOE tight. So, moving the seat won't solve my problem in the end. It'll solve it for the next 8.5 months, but come May, I'll still have this problem in the outboard position.

[joolsplus3]

Phil swears by the Mighty Tite? <the mind boggles to hear such a thing>.

Hmmm... Really, that seat shouldn't be a challenge at all. How about taking the base off it? Do your vehicle seats recline? Often if you recline the back a few notches, then install as tightly as possible, then pull the seat back back up, that'll be just the trick. If it doesn't recline, then often the thing is to kneel in the seat while you pull UP HARD on the shoulderbelt right at the buckle, so that the lapbelt gets super tight. You should also top tether it. And then only check for movement at the belt path...the lapbelt should be twanging tight and the seat shouldn't move through it at all, but the rest of the seat is ok to wiggle a tad (in fact, that's the directions on the MT...install the seat properly, then put it on...it's really quite a useless gadget ;) )

[nic073]

Ok, I went and tried it again. I was standing in the seat, bouncing and pulling on the shoulder strap on the left side (facing the seat) right near the buckle. I bounced and swayed and pulled. Still wiggle room. I even tried twisting the seat. Maybe I'm just so used to my seat not moving one smidgen of a centimeter? I'm attaching some pics of the install.

Install #1 right after install:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/nic073/IMG_1743.jpg


Install #1 moved by my hand:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/nic073/IMG_1744.jpg

Seat installed #2 (twisted)
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/nic073/IMG_1746.jpg

Seat installed #2 wiggled toward center of vehicle
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/nic073/IMG_1747.jpg

Seat installed #2 wiggled toward outside of vehicle
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/nic073/IMG_1748.jpg

[nic073]

Here's a video of the wiggling.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/nic073/th_MVI_1745.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/nic073/?action=view&current=MVI_1745.flv)

I couldn't get my belt to click anymore to lock it in. There was still a little give with the shoulder belt. But I couldn't for the life of me get it to click anymore.

[Gypsy]

Please don't twist the seatbelt, it needs to be threaded through the belt path as flat as possible.

You MAY twist the female end of the buckle if it's in the belt path, but there are no pictures to show there is a need for that.

I watched the video.

Untwist the seatbelt. Thread it through again. Buckle it. Lock it. Kneel in the seat & reach through the back of the seat (where your child's back is, so you can get to the seatbelt from the inside and pull ONLY on the shoulder part near the buckle and get the lap belt tight.

The lap belt is too loose in the video, if you can tighten it, you will be golden :)

[nic073]

Please don't twist the seatbelt, it needs to be threaded through the belt path as flat as possible.

You MAY twist the female end of the buckle if it's in the belt path, but there are no pictures to show there is a need for that.

I watched the video.

Untwist the seatbelt. Thread it through again. Buckle it. Lock it. Kneel in the seat & reach through the back of the seat (where your child's back is, so you can get to the seatbelt from the inside and pull ONLY on the shoulder part near the buckle and get the lap belt tight.

The lap belt is too loose in the video, if you can tighten it, you will be golden :)


LOL... I just re-read the post that its the female end to twist HAHA. I had that wrong.

The video is without the belt twisted. Its way too loose, I know. That was after I had bounced and jumped and shoved to pull the belt tighter. GRRR> I'll go try it again.

[nic073]

Ok, I retried it. There is no room to twist the female end. Well, I probably could, but it seems like that end of the buckle is pretty short as it is. (see pic).


On the buckle side of the seat, the belt is tight tight tight against the plastic. I can't even wiggle the seatbelt where it lays across the plastic. Its on the other side that it seems loose (see second video... sorry... it was getting dark here and I used a flashlight LOL)

http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/nic073/?action=view&current=MVI_1753.flv

[ignora]

In your pictures it looks like the base is on the seat. Really... it will probably be a lot easier to install if you take the base off. I have the same seat and makes a big difference.

[nic073]

In your pictures it looks like the base is on the seat. Really... it will probably be a lot easier to install if you take the base off. I have the same seat and makes a big difference.

I'll try that in the morning. I forgot that the base comes off. I knew there was something else I had read in the manual about it.

Thank you for all the advice. I'll try taking off the base in the morning and reinstalling it. I really hope I can get it correctly. I also think next week I'm going to go to one of the carseat check places and have them look it over. I think its at our police station?

[tjham]

I took the base off mine too. Big difference!

[mcomommy]

Yeah call your local police department and they will be able to look at it or at least direct you to the right place.

[UlrikeDG]

Yeah call your local police department and they will be able to look at it or at least direct you to the right place.

This is only helpful if your local PD actually has a tech on staff. Otherwise, you'll probably end up with a well meaning officer who knows less than you do but fakes it.

You can find an actual tech or even a scheduled car seat check-up on the Safe Kids Website: Find an event. (http://www.safekidsweb.org/events/events.asp)
Find a technician. (https://ssl13.cyzap.net/dzapps/dbzap.bin/apps/assess/Webmembers/tool?pToolCode=TAB9&pCategory1=TAB9_CERTSEARCH&Webid=SAFEKIDSCERTSQL)

[CaseyRN]

I'm a newbie and I have never heard of the MT? I gather that it's a bad thing, but what exactly is it? Thanks!

[Jeanum]

MT = Mighty Tite, an aftermarket ratcheting seatbelt tightener - see http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/SeatBeltTite.aspx for a detailed explanation of why not to use one.

Signed,

A reformed MT user who is stunned to hear that one of my CPS idols, Phil at Toy House, would recommend using one. :o

[NZ Child Restraints]

have you tried to relase the belt, install it normally, then kneel on the seat and pull the belt out fully to activate the locking mechanisim?
Pull the lap portion tight as you kneel on the seat, and then feed it through the latch plate and feed any excess towards the shoulder.

I did this just yesterday on a seat I installed for a 2.5 year old and normal movement was huge. Kneel and extend belt and feed it all back in lock mode without the top tether i got less than 1" movement forward and side to side.
Would fit beter with top tether. the car did not have any.

[jen_nah]

Just want to add of course SK is going to say their product is safe b/c they are the money. They want you buying their products but at the end of the day NHTSA does not approve "aftermarket" products and I promise you Cosco does not approve the use of the MT with their seats. Did you know SK does not even approve the MT with the use of the Radian which is a SK product also? I find that funny since they say the MT is so safe but say not to use it with the seat they make too.

It does appear your belt stalk (the female end of the belt buckle) can be twisted at least 1-2 full turns. From the picture it appears the seatbelt can't be pulled tighter b/c the belt stalk is hitting the side of the car seat at the belt path. If you twisted the belt stalk at least 2 twist you would get the belt stalk away from the belt path and probably could get a tighter install without removing the base.

[nic073]

Signed,

A reformed MT user who is stunned to hear that one of my CPS idols, Phil at Toy House, would recommend using one. :o

I wondered how you knew his name! :) He seems like a great guy, and his explanation for the reason SK says not to use it with the Radian (b/c I brought that up... I had read in a post that the very own makers of the MT didn't recommend using it with their own seat) was that if they said that it should be used then it would be basically like saying that their carseats are not good enough on their own- that the product they were selling (carseat) was not safe enough as is. Or something like that. The way he said/worded it made sense.

Anyhow, I am so thankful for all the advice. I can see both sides of the argument (for and against MT), and of course from my point of view (having done zero research on the MT, test etc) I keep thinking "OMG who do I believe? Maybe the board is overreacting and Phil is right. But then I think, well, it does make sense that the MT could/would stretch and possibly break the belt" KWIM? I wish my car had latch. I'd feel so much better. However, neither of our vehicles do and its not in our budget to get a newer vehicle. I too the base off my seat tonight and tomorrow morning will go back outside and try to install it again. I'll try the twisting thing too.

Thank you sooo much!

[skaterbabscpst]

In your pictures it looks like the base is on the seat. Really... it will probably be a lot easier to install if you take the base off. I have the same seat and makes a big difference.

Take the base off and then (before locking your seatbelt), pull as much slack out of the LAP portion of the belt as you can. Then lock the belt, keeping the lap portion tight.

The first time you do it this way it's helpful to have a spare hand to help you.

After you lock the belt, carefully feed the shoulder portion of the belt into the locked retractor, but don't let the lap portion loosen! Then start pulling more slack out of the lap belt by pulling the shoulder portion parallel to the lap portion while you kneel in the seat.

Keep pulling the belt parallel to itself and carefully feeding the shoulder belt webbing into the retractor. That should do the job. :)

[shellebelle]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but you can get at the shoulder belt from the interior of your car seat. Just peel up the head pad, reach in and down, and feel around. Being able to pull the shoulder belt from the inside of the car seat while kneeling in it and rocking the car seat back and forth will probably make a huge difference because you have much better leverage. It's a nice little feature of the AO.

[katiesmommy]

FYI, just because it seems that nobody has asked this question, how old and how much does the child weigh????

[nic073]

FYI, just because it seems that nobody has asked this question, how old and how much does the child weigh????

He is 19mos old and approx. 25ish lbs.

[jen_nah]

I wondered how you knew his name! :) He seems like a great guy, and his explanation for the reason SK says not to use it with the Radian (b/c I brought that up... I had read in a post that the very own makers of the MT didn't recommend using it with their own seat) was that if they said that it should be used then it would be basically like saying that their carseats are not good enough on their own- that the product they were selling (carseat) was not safe enough as is. Or something like that. The way he said/worded it made sense.

Anyhow, I am so thankful for all the advice. I can see both sides of the argument (for and against MT), and of course from my point of view (having done zero research on the MT, test etc) I keep thinking "OMG who do I believe? Maybe the board is overreacting and Phil is right. But then I think, well, it does make sense that the MT could/would stretch and possibly break the belt" KWIM? I wish my car had latch. I'd feel so much better. However, neither of our vehicles do and its not in our budget to get a newer vehicle. I too the base off my seat tonight and tomorrow morning will go back outside and try to install it again. I'll try the twisting thing too.

Thank you sooo much!


Go research non regulated products on NHTSA website. They will tell you non of these products are crash tested using set federal safety standards like all car seats must pass.

Using Phil's analogy on the Radian seat not being good enough it must need the MT. Well wouldn't that apply to your Cosco seat too? Using what he said would make me think he is saying your seat isn't safe enough to not need something else added to it. Which is a load of BS. All good techs know the tricks to try before we tell a parent there is a car seat/vehicle compatiblity issue. To me it sounds like Phil took the easy way out and didn't try all the tricks (or even tried to remove the AO base) before slapping on the MT.

I have seen first hand a MT cause complete failure to a vehicle seatbelt. This past June I had to do accident ride along with our local police dept. (which was so cool) as part of my instructor candidacy (this is a chapter requirement not SK requirement). Anyways one of the accidents we went to was a frontal/side impact accident. A Toyota Camary ran a red light & hit a Dodge Ram in the Toyota in the front driver quarter panel. The speed of the accident was est the truck doing about 15mph (since he just started moving through the intersection when his light turned green) & the Camary was doing about 30mph. So, This was not really classified as a major accident but more minor. The Camary had a Evenflo Titan in the back seat installed with a l/s using the MT. The MT caused the seatbelt to completely rip in half and the carseat went flying around the back seat. The driver was very lucky not to be hit by the seat and extremely luck his child was not in the vehicle at the time. Everyone walked away with just bumps & bruises. More broke egos then body parts. Needless to say that father was in our fitting station 3wks later with his new vehicle & new car seat learning how to install his seat correctly without the MT.

[jen_nah]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but you can get at the shoulder belt from the interior of your car seat. Just peel up the head pad, reach in and down, and feel around. Being able to pull the shoulder belt from the inside of the car seat while kneeling in it and rocking the car seat back and forth will probably make a huge difference because you have much better leverage. It's a nice little feature of the AO.

That I agree with.

[jen_nah]

He is 19mos old and approx. 25ish lbs.


Are you aware your ds should still be rf'ing at his age & size? Your AO is great for extended rear facing as it will accomdate him to 35lbs rearfacing. AAP recommends that all children remain rear facing for the full weight limit of their car seat.

Here is another great article on extended rear facing too.
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/stayrearfacing.aspx
Also here is a bunch of pictures of children over 1yrs of age "and" over 20lbs still rear facing.
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum.aspx


Also here is a side by side comparison of a foward facing seat vs a rear facing seat. Look at how much more protected the rear facing dummy is compared to the forward facing dummy.
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/kisitest_2002/videos/test2002/frontcrash/maxicosipriori.mpg

[nic073]

Are you aware your ds should still be rf'ing at his age & size? Your AO is great for extended rear facing as it will accomdate him to 35lbs rearfacing. AAP recommends that all children remain rear facing for the full weight limit of their car seat.

Here is another great article on extended rear facing too.
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/stayrearfacing.aspx
Also here is a bunch of pictures of children over 1yrs of age "and" over 20lbs still rear facing.
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum.aspx


Also here is a side by side comparison of a foward facing seat vs a rear facing seat. Look at how much more protected the rear facing dummy is compared to the forward facing dummy.
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/kisitest_2002/videos/test2002/frontcrash/maxicosipriori.mpg


Yes, I am aware, and I had all intentions of keeping him RF for as long as possible. However, from about 10months on, RF, he was horrible in the car.. even 10 minute trips to the store were nearly unbearable. Once he was a year old and had surpassed the 20lb mark, I discussed the choice with my pediatrician and tried FF. He was a lot happier in the car. I felt that trying to drive with a whiny baby was not helping the situation and taking my attention from the road to trying to cope with him and make him happy.

Anyhow, yes, I am completely aware that he can and should be RF still. I should probably try him out RF again and see how it goes.

[Cindy&Connor]

Anyhow, yes, I am completely aware that he can and should be RF still. I should probably try him out RF again and see how it goes.


I think it would be good to try it again. Kids are funny and even though he was happier when you turned him ffing it may have not been the reason. I also turned ds ffing at 1 and 20.4 lbs. He was over the 20lbs barely and the pedi said it was okay. I wish I had done more research then but luckily I was never in an accident. I turned ds back to rfing when he was 2.5 and he loved it. I did have to turn him ffing again in May because I needed to fit 3 across and now he's too big. He always tries to ride in my niece's rfing seat though. I would give it a week or so and not make a big deal about it. If it doesn't work then at least you tried. I know they're not reccommended but the soft mirror attached to the tether anchor really entertained my ds.

Good Luck.:)

[singingpond]

One other tip on getting a seat tighter (which I didn't see on my quick scan of the other replies, but I may just have missed it) -- after you get all the slack you can out of the shoulder belt by feeding it into the retractor, there is often still considerable slack in that part of the belt because you can't quite get it to go in to the next click. What works in this case is to unbuckle the belt again (hold onto the belt) and let it go in another one, two, three clicks (depends how ambitious you are :)), and then rebuckle. I have my weight on the seat, and lean/rock toward the buckle side as I rebuckle the belt. I often go through a couple of iterations of this, until I decide it's as tight as I can get it. Sometimes you end up letting the seatbelt retract too far, and then you have to start over, of course, which is mildly annoying.

Incidentally, I figured out this technique several years ago; like you, we had been happily using a Mighty Tite to get our AO secure; and then I happened to read something about the hazards of the MT. When I first tried to install the seat without the MT, I was really scratching my head about how to get it tight enough -- no amount of wiggling the seat, kneeling on it, and retracting the seatbelt seemed to get an adequately tight installation. Unbuckling and letting the seatbelt retract further finally got it in tight enough. Later, when I started perusing carseat discussions like this, I found that this is actually one of the standard 'tricks' for installing recalcitrant seats :).

I see others have recommended taking the base off the seat; I would recommend this also -- we've always used our AO without the base, and the seat is relatively easy to install that way. Can't comment on how it compares to having the base on, since we ditched the base as soon as we got the seat out of the box (it would not fit RF in our small car with the base on).

Oh, and I think the documented hazards with the MT have to do with overtightening (putting too much stress on the seatbelts and/or the plastic shell of the carseat); I'm left with the impression that it may not be unsafe if tightened judiciously, but that it is so easy to overtighten that one should not really recommend its use to anyone. I confess I have not thrown ours away, although I've never used one again since finding out about their hazards. I would probably consider using one if I had to do a very quick emergency installation (e.g. moving one of our carseats into someone else's vehicle) and didn't have time for the incremental tightening and checking that is usually involved.

Good luck!

Katrin

[wendytthomas]

Something when installing the seat RFing. There are lines on the belt guides telling you to have that level with the ground. For an older child (say over four or five months, one with good head control) this is not necessary and a lot of children are a lot happier to be upright and RFing in the car. They can see just as well as FFing out the side windows and out the back. But don't try installing him at a 45* angle. It'll drive you and he bonkers.

When installing that seat RFing I find it helps a LOT, base on or off, to pull the cover up a bit so you can see what you're doing through the RFing belt path. Otherwise you're shooting blind. Also, the male end of the buckle can get caught on the plastic of the shell. Double check that as you're tightening it.

I definitely agree with the others. RFing is SO much safer. And since you can see what you're doing the installation may be easier. And the Mighty Tite is deadly.

Wendy

[Anise]

Hi there,
Your carseat will move a bit no matter what because the vehicle seat belt is a few inches away from the vehicle seat. The optimum seat belt system would be coming out of the vehicle seat bight but yours is off to the side by a few inches. The video did have more movement than you'd like to see, but pretty much no matter what you do, you may not get the super-snug fit you'd like because the distance from the carseat base to the vehicle seat belt beginning (not the buckle side) is farther than optimum for snug child seat fits. The person who said to sneak your hand into the buckled side of the carseat and pull on the shoulder belt was great. While doing this, feed the rest of the shoulder belt up into the top part of where the shoulder belt excess webbing goes to try to take up the slack. Only test the carseat closest to the belt path. The further away you get from the belt path (like where the child's knees would be), you WILL BE ABLE TO CAUSE THE SEAT TO MOVE in YOUR vehicle because of the shoulder belt being located so far off to the side of the vehicle seat. Instead of concentrating on the side-to-side movement (because your seat will move more towards the door of the vehicle no matter what), focus on whether the seat goes forward much at all. If you get a reasonably snug fit, then you should most likely consider a good enough fit. Your side seat belts may not be optimum, though, but as long as the seat doesn't go too far forward then you probably are okay.

[lovinwaves]

Instead of concentrating on the side-to-side movement (because your seat will move more towards the door of the vehicle no matter what), focus on whether the seat goes forward much at all. If you get a reasonably snug fit, then you should most likely consider a good enough fit. Your side seat belts may not be optimum, though, but as long as the seat doesn't go too far forward then you probably are okay.

To test installation, grip the carseat at or near the BELTPATH and pull on the carseat. There should be no more than 1 inch of side-to-side or forward movement at the BELTPATH.

Many parents who mistakenly grab their rear-facing carseat near the baby's head (instead of near the BELTPATH) think the carseat is not installed properly because it moves more when tested at this point.

The above information was taken from page 135 of the National Child Passenger Safety Certification Training Program, Student Manual.