Why are the laws like this? (Alberta)

[shauburg]

A friend was telling me how it's so much easier that her 3 year old is in a booster now. I wanted to say something, but thought I should check the laws before I opened my mouth, so I read the Alberta Occupant Restraint Manual July 2003 (http://www.capitalhealth.ca/YourHealth/Campaigns/Kidsafe/Alberta_Occupant_Restraint_Manual.htm) (page 10).


It says:
- "all children under the age of 6 years and weighing less than 18 kg (40 lb) must be secured in a CR..."
- "children over the age of 6 years or weighing more than 18 kg (40 lb) must be secured with a seat belt and must be correctly wearing the complete seat belt"

So, if her 3 year old is over 40 lb, he is (legally) okay in a booster or even just a seat belt?!?!?! I am sad about this, because if he is over 40 lb, then I have nothing to back me up to convince her to re-harness him.


It also says:
- "Child passenger safety research indicates that children over 18 kg (40 lb) are safest riding in a vehicle in a booster seat."

Does this mean safest in a booster seat rather than a seat belt? That is true, but isn't the safest thing to be harnessed?

[CDNTech]

Legally, if he's over 40lbs AND he fits the booster correctly, then he can (legally) be in a booster.

If he can't stay in the correct position in his booster seat (ie: leaning out of position), then legally he's not restrained correctly and could be fined... don't know too many officer's that would ticket for that though.

He is NOT legal to be in a seatbelt. We have a proper use law that says the occupant must have the seatbelt in the correct orientation. It is impossible for a child that does not pass the 5 step test to have the seatbelt in the correct orientation and therefore *must* use a booster seat (at the minimum, they can still choose best practice and have their child restrained in an appropriate 5 pt harness) if over 40lbs.

The other thing you can check for is the booster seat itself... the majority of them have a 40lbs AND 4 year old requirement. If her booster has this, then she is using it improperly and it is illegal and ticketable.

The last quote is referencing seatbelt vs. booster... children are still safer in a 5 pt harness over the booster, especially at 3 years old.

A child's brain synapses that govern impulse control do not fully develop until closer to age 5. This means that it is next to impossible for a child to stay correctly positioned in a booster seat for entire trips. If the child is not in the correct position and a collision happens at that moment, then the booster will do nothing to help them. A booster just raises the child so that the vehicle seatbelt will fit correctly.

A 5pt restraint will always keep a child in position correctly when used correctly and is no more difficult than a booster seat... actually it's easier since you don't have to reach all the way around kids to get them buckled correctly, making sure that the seatbelt is under the armrests of the booster while doing so.

Other than laws of physics (which support best practice) and the fact that it is not even remotely possible for a three year old to sit correctly in a booster, there is no law written for keeping a 40lbs, 3 year old harnessed.

[snowbird25ca]

Technically speaking, the law doesn't specify an age as long as a child weighs 40lbs. However, we do have a proper use clause, so if a booster seat states 4yrs old - then a 3yr old isn't using the seat properly and mom can be ticketed.

Also, and I'd have to search to find the wording because another AB tech posted it, there is the technicality that a parent of a young child in a booster could get dinged with a ticket if the child doesn't stay in the proper position in the booster while the vehicle is being checked - it falls into a different section about using vehicle restraint system properly IIRC, but anyways, it in effect means that there are way to ticket parents who put 2 and 3yr olds in a booster.

Alberta laws enact only the minimums that Transport Canada requires, and that is why the wording is the way it is in the AORM - interesting read though, isn't it?

Anyways, the intent of that wording is that if your child has outgrown their car seat that they are safest in a booster as opposed to a vehicle seat belt. A 5pt harness is unquestionably safer than a booster seat, but a booster seat is much safer for a small child than the vehicle seatbelt alone. And that wording is basically intended to talk about the 40+ and beyond stage - legally speaking.

The AORM doesn't spend much time talking about best practice - there's a few references to rf'ing being safer even for older children, but not much explicitly saying to keep kids rf'ing as long as possible. AB law isn't even 1yr and 20lbs - it's only 20lbs. In practice it ends up being 1yr and 20 though because of proper use and more manufacturers rating carseats in the ff'ing mode for 1yr and up.

Depending on if my kiddos are actually settled for nap time, I'm going to search for that other thread.. it was actually a good discussion about precisely the early booster use and law. :thumbsup:

[snowbird25ca]

Haha, Jen beat me to it - I went and put the kids down before finishing my reply. I'll still go look for that thread though. :)

[CDNTech]

Haha, Jen beat me to it - I went and put the kids down before finishing my reply. I'll still go look for that thread though. :)

:ROTFLMAO: I figured that happened when I read the same reply from you... usually we are just yeahthating to each other. :D

[snowbird25ca]

This is the thread I was referring to:
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=24976

After looking at a few different booster manuals online, it appears that there are quite a few that don't put a 4yr minimum age requirement on them - I hadn't realized how many there were until that thread and my search to find manuals that said 4yrs and older.

(Dorel manuals aren't online, but the booster manuals I did find didn't have any specific statements saying only use with children who are at least 4yrs old. I actually had some emails with Evenflo about it - I asked specifically about standards and them taking liability for a 2.5 yr old seated in their booster that was heavy enough and tall enough.. their response was that boosters really only had to meet padding requirements - not crash tests - which I knew, but was hoping for more of a dialogue than I got.. Evenflo basically said that there was no difference in a 40lb 2yr old and a 40lb 5yr old of the same height and how they'd be protected in a crash. :rolleyes: Obviously they didn't stop to think about skeletal development that is purely age related. Sorry to go so OT.)

[snowbird25ca]

:ROTFLMAO: I figured that happened when I read the same reply from you... usually we are just yeahthating to each other. :D

Yeah, but hey, great minds think alike and we did have the same instructor after all. :razz: ;)

[dd9736]

I agree, that is the stupid thing about alberta law, there is no age rules in it about child restraints, I've been fuming about the 20lb ffing rule for months.

[snowbird25ca]

I agree, that is the stupid thing about alberta law, there is no age rules in it about child restraints, I've been fuming about the 20lb ffing rule for months.

Do remember though that most car seat manufacturers have a 1yr age requirement for ff'ing, and some have a minimum 22lb weight requirement for ff'ing. If a parent fails to use the seat properly, they can be ticketed...

[CDNTech]

I agree, that is the stupid thing about alberta law, there is no age rules in it about child restraints, I've been fuming about the 20lb ffing rule for months.

I do know that all convertible seats in Canada specify 1 year old AND 22lbs (some still say 20, but most say 22)... so under the proper use law, you will be ticketed if your child is FFing and is under 1 year old and under 20/22lbs.

It would be nice if they would re-write them to make more sense to the general public though. :p

[CDNTech]

Do remember though that most car seat manufacturers have a 1yr age requirement for ff'ing, and some have a minimum 22lb weight requirement for ff'ing. If a parent fails to use the seat properly, they can be ticketed...

:ROTFLMAO: Jinx again. :D

[snowbird25ca]

:ROTFLMAO: Jinx again. :D

:ROTFLMAO: You were one minute too late at hitting the submit button. :p

[hipmaman]

I am bumping this thread with questions of my own...

Is there now a new booster law in AB or pending? Is there any new developments/changes to AB CRS law? Specifically, I would like to know about children in the front seat (in booster or not), etc.

Any link would be appreciated. Thanks

[Allport]

Hi Tam - last I spoke to the AB government, there were no changes pending and no booster law pending either.

[hipmaman]

Thanks!

[snowbird25ca]

Hi Tam - last I spoke to the AB government, there were no changes pending and no booster law pending either.

How long ago was it you talked to them? I was given the same info last I checked, but I caught a very small blurb of a booster spot on the news yesterday and it made me wonder if legislation has finally been introduced. We've had some new techs trained that work with Alberta Transport, so with any luck they may be in more of a position to put pressure on the government. (They were finishing the course at the clinic I volunteered at in January, so it's recent.)

[Allport]

It was about 4 months ago - I hope they have changed their minds. AB, MB and SK are the only hold outs!

[shauburg]

I remember starting this thread. That friend from my OP was one of the reasons I became a tech - so that hopefully people would start listen to me when I stated best/safest practice because our laws (which was all they'd listen to before I was a tech) are weak here!

I also have not heard anything recently about a booster law here in AB.

I do know that in the past little while the Alberta Occupant Restraint Program (AORP) (http://www.health-in-action.org/aorp) has stepped up their efforts to promote booster usage in AB. The specific booster seat page (http://www.health-in-action.org/boosterseats) is fairly new.

See also:
http://www.health-in-action.org/node/133 - See 2009 revised YES Test brochures
http://www.health-in-action.org/library/pdf/AORP/content/Communications/Baby%20On%20Board%202009/08253AOR_Child_on_Board_Poster_Vert_11x15_REV_LOW_ RES.pdf - New billboard

[snowbird25ca]

Wow, that billboard is sure something.

I'm glad to see the brochures updated on that site. I wonder if they have the updated brochures at health units yet? I may have to grab some for a parent talk I'm doing next week. :cool:

[unityco]

Wow, that billboard is sure something.

:yeahthat: but the message is too buried. :( They really should have pumped up the text size at the bottom. Who's going to be able to read that zipping by at 148km/h?

[snowbird25ca]

:yeahthat: but the message is too buried. :( They really should have pumped up the text size at the bottom. Who's going to be able to read that zipping by at 148km/h?

Hopefully nobody is going that fast in city limits. :o

Holy cow on that news story though... :( AB highways often stretch flat and clear and drivers speed without thought of wildlife potentially entering the road or sudden change of driving conditions. I don't know the highway in that area, but I have to wonder if that was the case.

[hipmaman]

If it's still the same max. speed limit in AB is 110 km/h vs. 100 km/h elsewhere in the country, kwim?

[snowbird25ca]

If it's still the same max. speed limit in AB is 110 km/h vs. 100 km/h elsewhere in the country, kwim?

Depends on the highway. Typically it's only the divided highways that are 110, and usually the speed doesn't go up from 100 to 110 until you're past the exits for the cities within 10 to 15mins of the city. I didn't realize we were the only province with a 110 max. QE2 is the major highway between Edmonton and Calgary and it's 110 as soon as you get to the outer limits of the city. People drive 120 routinely on there and if you go under 115 you get passed like you're standing still... When I first got my license it was 110 during the day and 100 at night, I don't recall when they changed it though. (I usually drive about 7km/hr over which is enough to be with the average flow of traffic.)

[hipmaman]

You are right Trudy. I remember Hwy 1 being 110 km/h because the annual trek that dh and I did when we lived out in MB, as soon as we passed the SK-AB border, we increased our speed :) I think only AB has 110 for max speed and we have driven almost across Canada :) Anyone knows which other provinces have more than 100 km/h as max. speed?

Around the GTA hwys here, it's 100 but many people drive at 120 (and sometimes still being passed by). So you can imagine 110 as max speed, I can see 130ish, kwim?

[CDNTech]

The #1 in SK is now 110 as well... I think they changed about a year or so ago now.

It's only the divided highways that are 110... the main highway between Calgary/S'toon is not divided and is still 100 km/hr.

[April]

The #5 (Coquihalla) Hwy in BC has a 110 limit as soon as you get North of Hope.