harnessing in canada

[andbabiesmake4]

anyone have any links that show why a 2½ shouldn't be in a booster seat??
is it illegal in canada?
the child in question is 39lbs & 42"....

And no.. this isn't my children... the lady asked for links when I said it wasn't a good idea :rolleyes:

[CDNTech]

It is illegal for a child under 40lbs to be in a booster seat.

Which province is she in?

A booster seat protects a child ONLY when the child is in the correct position. If they are not in the correct position (leaning over, fell asleep, ect.), then it will do nothing for them. A 5pt harness keeps them in position at all times.

Brain synapses that govern impulse control do not develop until closer to age 5. No child should be in a booster before the age of 4 years old AND 40lbs at a minimum.

The majority of boosters will also have that 4 years old age stated on their booster seat as a requirement to meet before you can use the seat.

We have a number of combinations seats that cost the same amount as a booster seat. They would allow her to continue harnessing her child and then later convert to a booster seat for her. Two for the price of one :)

[canadianmom2three]

Hmmmm I thought it would be easy to find a link to state clearly not to use a booster till your child is over 4, but it wasn't. Most of them say 40lbs and up, and these were all big canadian sites. I did find this one that says your child should be around 4 1/2 and that if you use a booster too soon, your child may be hurt...
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/childsafety/1234/stage3/menu.htm
Really, I think the best link to bring it home to a mom of a little girl may well be the belle's gift link on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2LFo8vVi04
or if it is a little boy, then kyle miller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azgBhZfcqaQ&mode=related&search=

Good Luck!!

[snowbird25ca]

All the manuals for booster seats state 40lbs and 4yrs old as minimum requirements. You can just tell mom that if she chooses to go against manufacturers instructions and her kid gets seriously injured or killed due to being in a booster the manufacturer won't have any liability.

Does the mom understand the purpose of a booster and the maturity issues? Does she really believe her 2.5 yr old will sit properly the whole trip every trip and that if her child is out of position in even a sudden stop the seatbelt could cause serious injury? :confused: (Gotta be living in a bubble to think a 2.5yr old is going to be able to do that...)

Even IF it was legal, we all know that legal does not equal safe. If mom refuses to believe that it's illegal and doesn't care about manufacturers instructions, then you can always address it from the safety stand point.

But truth be told, some people are going to do what they want to do regardless of the laws and regardless of the danger it puts their children in. It's incredibly sad, but true. And for those parents who have that attitude, sometimes there's nothing you can do but quit addressing it or spend less time with them as a result. Remember that for all your worry, it still doesn't make you personally responsible if mom doesn't follow your advice OR the law and her child suffers as a result.

{{HUGS}} It's a tough situation to have with a friend. I hope that she listens to the facts and the situation is resolved positively.

[canadianmom2three]

They don't though - I have in my possession the canadian manual for the Evenflo Confidence, and there is no mention of a minimum REQUIRED age, just recommendations. I was sick when I read it, and piped off an email to evenflo about how disgusted I was. They responded that they would consider my opinion in any updates they make to the manual (ha, I won't hold my breath waiting) :rolleyes:

[snowbird25ca]

Here's a link to a manual for a graco combination seat:
http://www.elfe.net/common/sitemedia/pdf18689FAR_ISPB023CB%20&%20ISPB012CA%20&%20ISPB013CB%20Manual.pdf

pg 28 says under WARNINGS for use with vehicle seat belt:
FAILURE TO PROPERLY SECURE YOUR CHILD AND THE BOOSTER SEAT IN YOUR VEHICLE INCREASES THE RISK OF SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH IN THE EVENT OF A SHARP TURN, SUDDEN STOP OR CRASH.

You must always use a vehicle lap/shoulder belt to secure your child and the booster seat. UAS will not secure your child in the booster seat. Use only the vehicle’s lap and shoulder belt system when restraining the child in this booster seat .

NEVER use a vehicle lap-only belt across front of child .

Vehicle belts MUST lay flat against child and MUST not be
twisted.

DO NOT use shoulder belt loose or positioned under arm .
Lap portion of lap/shoulder belt MUST be low and snug on hips,
just touching thighs.

DO NOT allow child to slide down in booster seat .

If child will not keep vehicle restraint properly positioned, DO NOT use this booster seat. Use a different child restraint system. (bolding mine)

I don't think her 2yr old will meet those requirements...

This seat also has a minimum height of 35" for booster mode.

[canadianmom2three]

oops double posted

[snowbird25ca]

They don't though - I have in my possession the canadian manual for the Evenflo Confidence, and there is no mention of a minimum REQUIRED age, just recommendations. I was sick when I read it, and piped off an email to evenflo about how disgusted I was. They responded that they would consider my opinion in any updates they make to the manual (ha, I won't hold my breath waiting) :rolleyes:

Yeah, you know that Graco manual I just read doesn't give a minimum age either - although it gives a minimum height of 35". My 3yr old is 38" tall. :rolleyes:

I have read manuals though that have stated 4yrs old for booster.

Here's a turbobooster manual, it only says recommended age approximately 4 to 10:
Requirements 40 to 100 lbs and at least 40" tall.

FAILURE TO USE booster seat in a manner appropriate for your child’s size may increase the risk of serious injury or death.

Weight and Height Limits:

To use this Graco booster seat, your child MUST meet ALL
of the following requirements:
(approximately 4 to 10 years old):
• weigh between 18 and 45 kg (mass between 40 and 100 lbs), and
• are between 101 and 145 cm (40 and 57 inches) in height, and
• the shoulder belt MUST lay across child’s shoulders in red zone as shown in or and the lap portion is positioned low on the childs hips

Which is really frustrating because many provinces have minimum weight limits combined with proper use and no age limit. Alberta is one of those - 40lbs or 6yrs old. But if the seatbelt doesn't fit properly, you can be ticketed. And if you're using the booster seat against manufacturer recommendations, you can be ticketed. So it effectively makes 40lb 3.5yr olds having to stay harnessed IF the booster manufacturer puts an age limit. I do believe the 3in1's say age 4 and 40lbs minimum though - or at least they used to.

Jen - would you be able to contact Kim for clarification on this? Or do you have more clarification to add? ;)

[CDNTech]

Section 78 (4) states the occupant must have the seatbelt system in the correct orientation.

This is our proper use law.

If a parent were to get stopped by an officer and sees a 2.5 year old child in a booster, I can almost guarantee you that child will lean out of position *at least* one time while the officer is checking license and registration. Leaning out of position would qualify as a ticketable offense under the proper use law.

Yes, I know that is incredibly picky, but it is correct. If the child is leaning out of position, they do not have the seatbelt assembly in the correct orientation and it is ticketable... not to mention a death sentence for a child of that age in a collision.

Four years old is stated as a minimum to have a child in a booster because the brain synapses that govern impulse control do not develop until this age (usually closer to age 5 from what I've read). Therefore a child under 4 does not have the brain development required to sit correctly in a booster seat 100% of the time.

Just to be completely clear, the booster used must also allow the seatbelt to correctly fit the child. The AO's hip guides generally allow the seatbelt to sit in front of the child instead of against the child... this would mean the seatbelt is not in the correct orientation and would also be a ticketable offense even if they were 40lbs and above the minimum height guidelines.

Not sure if that clarified anything for you, but there's my :twocents: anyway. ;)

Somewhere around here there is a crash test video of a harnessed seat beside a booster seat. Both occupants are in the correct position (obviously, they are dummies ;)). The dummy in the booster seat comes completely out of the shoulder portion of his seatbelt while the 5 pt restraint holds the dummy in perfectly. That alone should be enough to convince anyone why a wiggly 2.5 year old can *not* sit in a booster. Anyone know where that is?

[snowbird25ca]

Thanks Jen, that helps a lot. So do we tell parents 4 and 40 is bare minimum based on the likelihood that they'll be sitting properly by that age and because some boosters have that as the age minimum?

I've seen that video comparing the two, but I don't have it bookmarked. It is quite something though...

(You know, 10 or 15 yrs ago the age at 40lbs probably wasn't as much an issue because childhood obesity wasn't as much of a problem. To have a 2yr old who's over 40lbs would've been pretty darn rare so they probably didn't even think it an issue to put in law at the time. * Deep thought for the day.* :rolleyes: )

[CDNTech]

That's what I do... bare minimum of 4 yrs and 40lbs due to above reasons you mentioned.

I totally agree with your deep thought. :) Aiden is considered a lightweight by today's standards, but 15 years ago, he was probably closer to the average child. He's ~ 35lbs at 5.5 years old.