Como's/Signo Manual on-line

[dluciew]

For those who are interested, the Como and Signo's instruction manuals are on-line. Off to read it..

http://www.recaro.com/index.php?id=3826&region=3&L=2

[Synchro246]

Thanks!

[LuvBug03]

wow they use the 1" rearfacing rule for their convertible, point blank. Its good that they give it as fact.
I wonder how their lockoffs will be? hopefully better than britax's have become :p

Ive just quickly skimmed but they seem to go into good detail about the simple things. I did not see anything about a RFing tether though :confused:

[dluciew]

I was looking thru the manual for the Signo and there are instructions for using the tether for FF but it's not mentioned RF (it also does not say you can't use it RF). So what's your take on it?

[LuvBug03]

I was looking thru the manual for the Signo and there are instructions for using the tether for FF but it's not mentioned RF (it also does not say you can't use it RF). So what's your take on it?

usually if it doesnt specifically say you can, you assume you cant. I dont know why they would leave it out if it was something they allowed?

[AmyKat]

I noticed the same thing about the RF tether. Surely that's just an oversight and it will be corrected. I also noticed a couple of spelling errors ( "onnectors" instead of "connectors") so maybe this is just a rough draft.

On the cover of the Signo manual, it says ...

Use this child restraint rear-facing only with children weighing 5 to 35 pounds, 34 inches (86.4cm) or less, and younger than 12 months of age.

Surely the age part is just poor wording, right?

But, the height limit. Does 34 inches seem really low to you? I think my 14 month old is already 32 inches.

Amy

[LuvBug03]

height and age limits are really only guidelines. I believe what they are meaning is you have to use it with children under 34" and under 12m... like how the scenera is.

[JOII]

Thanks for the link!

I have read the whole thing and find a few things troubling.

The 34" RF height limit.

• Rear-Facing Mode: Child restraint system for children
5 to 35 pounds, 34 inches (86.4cm) or less, and younger
than 12 months of age.

To me that is making it a "limit" and may confuse parents.

No mention of RF tethering (as far as I know the Britax convertibles and Radian DO mention it in their manuals)
NO mention of expiration date!

[LuvBug03]

a lot of manuals have a RFing height limit, infant seats would be the #1 to list them.

But then it states in the RFing section that you stop using it when the child is within 1" of the shell. So I would not go by standing height and would go by the 1" rule.

It very well will most likely confuse some parents, but so could anything else in the manual. The age limit would confuse them as well.

The online manual has a good bit of mistakes and I find the graphics to be sorta bland lol! I like how they color coded stuff, but its sort of jumbled in order. I think Im just too use to reading other brand manuals.

[JOII]

a lot of manuals have a RFing height limit, infant seats would be the #1 to list them.

It very well will most likely confuse some parents, but so could anything else in the manual. The age limit would confuse them as well.

Oh I know but it just annoys me that there is NO reason they couldn't have put 36" or higher. Theres no reason to aim to low. :thumbsdown:

[LuvBug03]

Oh I know but it just annoys me that there is NO reason they couldn't have put 36" or higher. Theres no reason to aim to low. :thumbsdown:

yeah I think the scenera's is even 36" isnt it? and then they say they cant FF until 34"... am I remembering that right? lol!

[lovemytwosweeties]

yeah I think the scenera's is even 36" isnt it? and then they say they cant FF until 34"... am I remembering that right? lol!

I'm pretty sure the Scenera is 36" because I was thinking about getting it for my DD so she could RF longer, but she's nearly 38". The 34" on the Como reads to me like a limit. :thumbsdown:

To the OP - thanks for posting the link!!

[Defrost]

My thoughts (reading the Como manual):

It appears to use BOTH the seat belt's locking mechanism AND their lock-offs. This is in the instructions that combine locking latchplate belts and belts with a switchable retractor; the belt is going to lock at the latchplate no matter how they install it, and it also says:
Pull the seat belt out fully holding lap and shoulder sections together and route through the rear- facing belt path.
That's going to lock a switchable belt. Then it says:
When the seat belt is tight, close the lock-off over both lap and shoulder belt sections, locking the seat belt webbing.
So they're using two locking methods - that's new, as far as I've heard.

The picture they have of tightening a lap-only belt is amusing - there's no way that angle will tighten the belt! You'd have to unbuckle the belt, tighten it, and re-buckle while pushing down on the seat.

From the "troubleshooting" section:
If the seat belt is not locking, you must use a locking clip or the built in lock-off.

I think that must be a typo. Why would you need a locking clip when it has built-in lock-offs?

I'm also wondering if the lack of RF-tethering instructions, along with the statement we got from the woman who posted pics after visiting their office last week about there not being a D-ring, means they aren't going to have RF-tethering after all?

On the Signo, seat belt installation is a bit confusing - OVER the bar on one side, UNDER the bar on the other side.

In any case, I hope I get to play with one soon! :)

[jen_nah]

From the "troubleshooting" section:


I think that must be a typo. Why would you need a locking clip when it has built-in lock-offs?


I take that as meaning if your can't get the lock off to close (ex: like on rf'ing MA's) you will need to use a locking clip if your seatbelts don't lock.

I am starting to get the feeling that all the hype on the new Recaro maybe deflating. No rf tethering, narrow head wings, etc...

I wonder with the new Recaro will Britax make their 65lb convertible shells taller to allow tall harness slots. Would be a very SMART move on Britax part and give them the a HUGE upper hand in the market.

[bobandjess99]

The 34" RF height limit.

• Rear-Facing Mode: Child restraint system for children
5 to 35 pounds, 34 inches (86.4cm) or less, and younger
than 12 months of age.

!


UGH. Peoeple! This is the SAME crappy wording many of the seats use, including Britax.
It means that IF your child is under 34 inches, or under a year, the carseat MUST ONLY be used rear facing. Not that you can not use it RF for LONGER than that.

It is a weird syntax and grammar usage, which makes it confusing, but it is NOT putting a height or age limit on
RF. It all depends on whether or not the ONLY is modifying the first or second part of the sentence.....

Here are 2 ways of saying it
"You must use this seat RF ONLY -- for a child under 34 inches"
"You must use this seat RF -- ONLY for a child under 34 inches"

Do you see the COMPLETE change of meaning?


I think what they have done, rather than put a RF height limit of 34 inches, is actually to have put a MINIMUM FF limit of 34 inches!! They are saying that IF your child is "under 34 inches, you MUST use the seat RF - but that you CAN use it higher, until your child's head is within 1" of the shell top. But that iunder NO circumstances can you use the seat FF for a child under 34 inches, they MUST ONLY ride RF.

I have NO IDEA if I am making sense, and it is SO HARD to try and describe meaning and emphasis via online forum.....

Anyway...that's my take on it.

[LuvBug03]

I wonder with the new Recaro will Britax make their 65lb convertible shells taller to allow tall harness slots. Would be a very SMART move on Britax part and give them the a HUGE upper hand in the market.

I sure hope so. From the rough pictures we saw it did indeed look like the top slots were much higher on the como than the BV pictured in the same post. I think if the recaro isnt the seat we hope it was, at least maybe it will open up the arena for a little more competition.

[jen_nah]

I am also not seeing in the Como that you can removed the head bolsters if need be. They actually point to the head & thigh bolsters on page 11 as the SIP. So, That would assume to me that the bolsters are the SIP. But, They do have shots in there with it out (not kid shots in the seat with them out).

[Synchro246]

Totally makes sense. Even though reading it IN context makes a difference in interpreting it properly, it's still too easy to interpret it that one MUST turn the child FF when those critera are met. They should add a sentence between the "use as RF only" and "use as FF only" that gives clearly states the upper limits of the RF.

ETA--that I'm responding to bob&jess's post

[snowbird25ca]

From pg 6 of the manual (general warnings section before any instructions are gotten into:)

• Secure this child restraint with the vehicle’s child restraint
anchorage system if available or with a vehicle belt.
• Secure the top anchorage strap provided with this child restraint.
• Snugly adjust the belts provided with this child restraint around
your child.


Bolding mine... the way this is worded, it almost sounds like it's telling you to always use it. Although I'm sure it would say it in the rf'ing section of the manual too if that was the case, right?

[southpawboston]

i think we really need some clarification from an official recaro rep at this point (not gayle) on some of these issues, the most obvious issue to me being the RF tethering.

on the plus side, i do think it was good that they provided guidelines for hot and cold weather climates-- not to use bulky clothing on kiddos in the cold, but to lay layers on top after being harnessed in. i haven't seen that in other carseat manuals of mine.

[rlsadc]

in the troubleshooting section it mentions the rf'ing recline being too upright. it says use a pool noodle or towel, no mention of a rf tether. i think someone got some misinformation about that rf tether.

[arly1983]

i think we really need some clarification from an official recaro rep at this point (not gayle) on some of these issues, the most obvious issue to me being the RF tethering

I couldn't agree more. It *could* just be an oversight. Maybe.

[cheerbop]

I wonder with the new Recaro will Britax make their 65lb convertible shells taller to allow tall harness slots. Would be a very SMART move on Britax part and give them the a HUGE upper hand in the market.

I agree...

[LuvBug03]

the como's manual says the head restraint is optional, but it is recommended to use as long as comfortable. What they dont say anything about anywhere I could find was the thigh bolster??

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL493/2241001/17506465/273836834.jpg

it seems to be extra SIP but not the only SIP because they point to the shell as SIP as well.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL493/2241001/17506465/273836152.jpg

There is a glossary at the very end of the manual with definitions of certain terms and their definition for SIP is Extra safety feature of RECARO child restraints having energy absorbing foam strategically placed in areas on the child restraint where it is especially important to protect the child in a crash.
and the definition of the head restraint is Structure at the top of the backrest which is designed to keep the child's head in the proper position and provide protection for the child's head during a crash.


essentially it seems that SIP is anything that absorbs energy or cushoins the child on their side. since there is no set standard for what SIP is, a pillow really could be SIP as long as it was in between the child's side and whatever object is to that side of their body. lol!


On another not it also states the restraint is not to be used FFing if the harness is below the child's shoulders, or RFing if the harness is above the child's shoulders. Its point blank and that is great! They are point blank about a lot of things normally worded weird or not at all in the manual... but then they have some weird wording and stuff not in their manual as well lol!!

[AmyKat]

UGH. Peoeple! This is the SAME crappy wording many of the seats use, including Britax.
It means that IF your child is under 34 inches, or under a year, the carseat MUST ONLY be used rear facing. Not that you can not use it RF for LONGER than that.

It is a weird syntax and grammar usage, which makes it confusing, but it is NOT putting a height or age limit on
RF. It all depends on whether or not the ONLY is modifying the first or second part of the sentence.....

Here are 2 ways of saying it
"You must use this seat RF ONLY -- for a child under 34 inches"
"You must use this seat RF -- ONLY for a child under 34 inches"

Do you see the COMPLETE change of meaning?


I think what they have done, rather than put a RF height limit of 34 inches, is actually to have put a MINIMUM FF limit of 34 inches!! They are saying that IF your child is "under 34 inches, you MUST use the seat RF - but that you CAN use it higher, until your child's head is within 1" of the shell top. But that iunder NO circumstances can you use the seat FF for a child under 34 inches, they MUST ONLY ride RF.

Actually, this is not at all what the Signo manual says. If you look at page 9 on the manual, it has a nifty little graph that shows when you can use the seat in each position.

The pink box is for when it is only okay to rear face. It covers the area from 5 lbs to 20 lbs up to 34 inches in any of those weights.

The grey box shows you can FF or RF from 20 lbs to 35 lbs from 0 inches to 34 inches.

The blue box shows you can only FF from 20 lbs to 35 lbs and 34 inches to 60 inches or 35 lbs - 70 lbs and 0 inches to 60 inches.

So, even if the wording can be changed, the box clearly shows that you cannot RF past 34 inches.

[jen_nah]

the como's manual says the head restraint is optional, but it is recommended to use as long as comfortable. What they dont say anything about anywhere I could find was the thigh bolster??

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL493/2241001/17506465/273836834.jpg

it seems to be extra SIP but not the only SIP because they point to the shell as SIP as well.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL493/2241001/17506465/273836152.jpg

There is a glossary at the very end of the manual with definitions of certain terms and their definition for SIP is
and the definition of the head restraint is


essentially it seems that SIP is anything that absorbs energy or cushoins the child on their side. since there is no set standard for what SIP is, a pillow really could be SIP as long as it was in between the child's side and whatever object is to that side of their body. lol!


On another not it also states the restraint is not to be used FFing if the harness is below the child's shoulders, or RFing if the harness is above the child's shoulders. Its point blank and that is great! They are point blank about a lot of things normally worded weird or not at all in the manual... but then they have some weird wording and stuff not in their manual as well lol!!

I didn't see the removal part when I read over it. So, It doesn't have TSIP like the Boulevard then. I didn't read over the Signo does it allow the removal of the head/thigh bolster?

[LuvBug03]

I didn't see the removal part when I read over it. So, It doesn't have TSIP like the Boulevard then. I didn't read over the Signo does it allow the removal of the head/thigh bolster?

to me it seems like the como is like the decathlon and the signo is like the boulevard. The DC has all that extra removable stuff and the boulevard only has the removable bottom. except its not the same... but Im sure you get my drift lol!

[jen_nah]

to me it seems like the como is like the decathlon and the signo is like the boulevard. The DC has all that extra removable stuff and the boulevard only has the removable bottom. except its not the same... but Im sure you get my drift lol!

Well since the head/thigh bolster isn't removeable and so narrow I am not sure it will be all that great of option for bigger kids. I wonder with the thigh bolster in on the Signo if it will actually have 19" top harness slots. The bolster goes under the child's bottom and appears to be rather think even in the seated area. That might actually take away an 1" or 2" of harness height in the Signo. I think the Como might actually be the better of the 2 in my opinion.

Still not pleased that there isn't a rf tether. I doubt they "just" forgot to add it to the manual. I wonder if it didn't pass FMVSS so that is why its not allowed.

[Jeanum]

I scoured both manuals, and the lack of any mention of top tethering RF unfortunately doesn't seem like a mere oversight to me. There's not even a hint of RF top tethering capability as far as I could see. The small blurb about always securing the tether seems to be talking more in terms of storing it on the seat rather than always using RF or FF. :twocents: This seems to jive with the earlier info. about a RF D-ring top tether connector strap not being included with the seats. :( RF tethering is not necessarily a deal breaker, depending on the vehicle and how strongly one values it as a feature, but it is somewhat disappointing. :twocents:

[lovinwaves]

Well since the head/thigh bolster isn't removeable and so narrow I am not sure it will be all that great of option for bigger kids. I wonder with the thigh bolster in on the Signo if it will actually have 19" top harness slots. The bolster goes under the child's bottom and appears to be rather think even in the seated area. That might actually take away an 1" or 2" of harness height in the Signo. I think the Como might actually be the better of the 2 in my opinion.

Still not pleased that there isn't a rf tether. I doubt they "just" forgot to add it to the manual. I wonder if it didn't pass FMVSS so that is why its not allowed.

The HEAD and THIGH bolster *IS* removable on the COMO. :confused:

And you say because it is so narrow, What seat are you talking about in your first sentence? We don't know how narrow the wings are on the Signo yet. But at least we know they are removable on the COMO.

The thigh bolster is also removable on the Signo as well. The head bolster is not though.

[jen_nah]

The HEAD and THIGH bolster *IS* removable on the COMO. :confused:

And you say because it is so narrow, What seat are you talking about in your first sentence? We don't know how narrow the wings are on the Signo yet. But at least we know they are removable on the COMO.

The thigh bolster is also removable on the Signo as well. The head bolster is not though.

I knew you said in a past post it was removeable on the Como but I didn't see it in the owners manual when I read it over. But, Luv did already copied where it said it was removeable. Just must have missed that part when reading.

Since all the pictures of the Como & Signo both appear to have the same head bolster is why I said it was narrow given the poster that posted picture of her son in the seat.

Good to know that the thigh bolster on the Signo is removeable. So, That would not effect harness height then. But, The narrow head bolster on the Signo is a little concerning.

[lovinwaves]

But, The narrow head bolster on the Signo is a little concerning.


We don't know exactly how far apart the head wings are the Signo, but this is interesting:

http://www.car-seat.org/showpost.php?p=205660&postcount=46

[LuvBug03]

if you compare the way the bolster looks in the como manual to the way it looks in the signo manual it *looks* like the signo's is more flush with the sides of the seat, so spread out a little more. It will be interesting to see for sure!

[Synchro246]

And based on the measurements of the como wing space (I still want to see if they jive with what that Ebay seller said ;)) Even that isn't much narrower than the Blvd. I'm guessing that the wing measurements of the signo will be comparable :twocents:

[dluciew]

Actually, this is not at all what the Signo manual says. If you look at page 9 on the manual, it has a nifty little graph that shows when you can use the seat in each position.

The pink box is for when it is only okay to rear face. It covers the area from 5 lbs to 20 lbs up to 34 inches in any of those weights.

The grey box shows you can FF or RF from 20 lbs to 35 lbs from 0 inches to 34 inches.

The blue box shows you can only FF from 20 lbs to 35 lbs and 34 inches to 60 inches or 35 lbs - 70 lbs and 0 inches to 60 inches.

So, even if the wording can be changed, the box clearly shows that you cannot RF past 34 inches.

So let me see if I understand. My son is 17 months and about 32 inches tall. Does this mean I would only have 2 more inches to RF him?

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/dluciew/chart.jpg

[Synchro246]

So let me see if I understand. My son is 17 months and about 32 inches tall. Does this mean I would only have 2 more inches to RF him?


That sounds right, but two inches can take a while to grow at this age & (I could totally be wrong on this): I think the one inch from the top of the shell is more important than full height because some kids are long legged & can be contained by the shell longer than a kid of the same height who has shorter legs.

[dluciew]

That sounds right, but two inches can take a while to grow at this age & (I could totally be wrong on this): I think the one inch from the top of the shell is more important than full height because some kids are long legged & can be contained by the shell longer than a kid of the same height who has shorter legs.

I'm pretty sure the 1 inch rule would apply but I really don't like the grid. If I didn't know better I would read that as when they are taller than 34 inches they must be FF because it's all blue, not grey.

[SusanMae]

i think we really need some clarification from an official recaro rep at this point (not gayle) on some of these issues, the most obvious issue to me being the RF tethering.

on the plus side, i do think it was good that they provided guidelines for hot and cold weather climates-- not to use bulky clothing on kiddos in the cold, but to lay layers on top after being harnessed in. i haven't seen that in other carseat manuals of mine.


My KeyFit manual mentions not putting bulky layers on and to put blankets on top of the baby for warmth.

[bobandjess99]

So let me see if I understand. My son is 17 months and about 32 inches tall. Does this mean I would only have 2 more inches to RF him?

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/dluciew/chart.jpg


That chart is annoying.
what if your child falls in the WHITE area?
It also DOES make it seem like you CAN'T RF after 34 inches, - but I just CAN'T see that being true.
Only if an actualy engineer/knowledgabele persona from recaro tells me directly you can not RF after 34 inches would I believe that. It's ridiculous. My dd is 37 inches, and has room left to RF in a scenera, but you're gonna tell me she CAN'T RF in these new, huge seats? Whatever.

[snowbird25ca]

That chart is annoying.
what if your child falls in the WHITE area?
It also DOES make it seem like you CAN'T RF after 34 inches, - but I just CAN'T see that being true.
Only if an actualy engineer/knowledgabele persona from recaro tells me directly you can not RF after 34 inches would I believe that. It's ridiculous. My dd is 37 inches, and has room left to RF in a scenera, but you're gonna tell me she CAN'T RF in these new, huge seats? Whatever.

(This isn't directed towards you Bob and Jess, I just quoted your post because it was the most recent one talking about the 34" limit. Although I do think the chart is nice for people who are visual learners. ;) My dd was in said white area on her AO (only by a couple ozs, but still,) when I talked to Dorel they told me that she didn't fit the seat.. :rolleyes: I wonder if that's what Recaro will tell parents too?)

ALL Canadian convertible seats with a rf'ing height limit mentioned say 32". Evenflo just says 1" from top of shell, but all the rest say 32". This is true for across the board- scenera, AO, MA, Radian - all of them. It's actually the reason why my dd was turned ff'ing from 18mos until 30mos when I understood better that height recommendations aren't set in stone.

Anyways, just throwing this out there because all of our seats here say quite clearly a 32" limit for rf'ing. Although Transport Canada itself says you don't have to follow that limit provided there's head room. So honestly, I wouldn't worry about that height limit being stated.

My opinion is, that most parents turn their kids ff'ing by 34", so the way the manual is written hopefully those parents will keep their kids rf'ing to 34". I also think, that those who do do erf'ing, are more likely to be educated about how to tell when a seat is outgrown rf'ing and not worry so much about the maximum stated height limit for rf'ing. :twocents:

[joolsplus3]

That chart is annoying.
what if your child falls in the WHITE area?
It also DOES make it seem like you CAN'T RF after 34 inches, - but I just CAN'T see that being true.
Only if an actualy engineer/knowledgabele persona from recaro tells me directly you can not RF after 34 inches would I believe that. It's ridiculous. My dd is 37 inches, and has room left to RF in a scenera, but you're gonna tell me she CAN'T RF in these new, huge seats? Whatever.

It's a guideline...just like all the others. We know the seat passes with at least the 38 inch tall, 34 pound hybrid-III dummy, so any random height guideline lower than that is meritless. I'd adhere to the one inch rule (which is pretty darn tall, we'll be at the weight limit by then, for sure!)

[chickenman]

i liked the manual, i thought it did a good job of trying to explain to parents there seatbelts, and the troubleshooting section was nice, its never gonna be perfect, but i for some reason i really liked there manual, but the seat is a lot like the britax, i wonder if people will start asking questions about the hugs since the recaro doesnt have them, and how important rear facing tethering is since recaro doesnt allow it or provide a d ring. i didnt read the signos manual but the como i liked.

[stayinhomewithmy4]

I'm still holding out a tiny bit of hope that it can be tethered RF. I emailed Recaro's CS and will see what they have to say about it. (We need a fingers crossed smilie).

[Karen]

Both the chart AND the lack of RF tether bother me a lot. But I love how deep the como looks in pictures. Sigh.

[racesmom]

Just started reading...

I'm not up to date on all the details of various manuals. Is not being allowed in the second row of a small extended cab unique to the Recaros (pg. 17)? I've not noticed that in other manuals. Like I said, I'm not up on all the latest (I just check the manual beforehand), and I haven't helped with any small extended cabs in the past couple years. Just curious. Thanks!

[Synchro246]

I'm still holding out a tiny bit of hope that it can be tethered RF. I emailed Recaro's CS and will see what they have to say about it. (We need a fingers crossed smilie).

What did you get back? I called, and talked with Gaile(sp?)- She said you can RF tether IF you have tether anchors for it. So, yes, but no not really since I don't know of a single car that comes with RF tether anchor points.

I wonder if it's in a third row RF can one tether to the 2nd row's tether anchor points? Not that anyone ever wants to put a RF seat in the third row.