My 07 Pacifica caught on FIRE!

[npr74]

My brand new 2007 Chrysler Pacifica with 3,000 miles on it caught on fire! I was driving it into a parking spot when it burst into flames under the hood. I was lucky to get out unharmed. I am so glad that my children were not with me. I have no idea how I would have undone 3 car seats in time. Chrysler has admitted fault (they couldn't tell me why the fire started because the engine was "all burned up"). They wanted to give us another Pacifica, but they wanted us to keep paying the original loan (just swap loans with them). I told them I couldn't put my family in another Chrysler and feel safe, so they are paying our original loan off. I am not too happy with them right now. I feel like they could have done more. We were on vacation at the beach when our car caught on fire. It totally ruined our vacation , and we came home early in a rental van that we paid for.
Since we need a family car now, We are looking at the new Saturn Outlook. Is the Outlook better than the Enclave or the Acadia? Are they equally rated? Most people tell me to go with Honda or Toyota, but we have 3 car seats. What do you guys suggest? We definately need some good advice!
Thank you,
Nicole
Grace 6 regent
Andrew 3 regent
Becca 6 months roundabout

[MySillyKids]

People tell you honda or Toyota, because they last forever. We have been through oh Tons of honda's (we've had every honda except for the CRV) and we've never had ONE single issue with ANY of them.

Not that domestic cars are bad.

Sorry to hear about your car! Wow.!

[jen_nah]

I am soooo sorry that happened. I would be mad too and I agree they should have at least done more for you.

As a proud GM owner we many GM vehicles with out any major issues. I currently drive a '05 Chevy Z71 Tahoe that I LOVE to pieces but will be replaced with a new Saturn Outlook or GMC Acadia late next year when my lease is up. My dh drives a '02 Chevy 2500HD crewcab Silverado pickup truck.

As for the safety standards between the 3 GM crossovers they are exactly the same vehicle with just different options & styling. So, They are all equal as safe.

[CDNTech]

I LOVE the Mazda CX-7 (or CX-9 if you want 7 passenger seating). We're getting a CX-9 next year and there is tons of room for three across the back.

[Patriot201]

OMG! I am so glad that you are okay!!!

[UlrikeDG]

There are Hondas and Toyotas that will fit 3 car seats. It depends on what you're wanting and how you're going to use it.

I recommend starting out with crash test results and going from there:
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) Tests (http://www.iihs.org/ratings/default.aspx) (independent)
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Tests (http://www.safercar.gov/) (government)

Incidentally, the Saturn Outlook does appear to do quite well, both for crash tests (NHTSA) and for reliability.

[snowbird25ca]

Sorry to hear about your car. That's just scary.. glad your kids weren't in the car at the time.

We have a Saturn Outlook and absolutely LOVE it! We have 2 car seats and keep our 3rd row down. With the 2nd row slid backwards *we have 2nd row bench* there's enough room for my dh to have the saet adjusted comfy and he's a big guy. ;) We've had ours since Feb, and I'm still really pleased with it. :D

So far I've had a Radian, snugride, SS1 and MA in there, right now the SS1 is middle and the MA passenger outboard. Driver outboard would need a bit of a narrower car seat than the MA in order to fit next to the SS1, but 3 across would be pretty easy to do.

[Judi]

Was this last weekend? Because I had van problems too, on Saturday, on my first anniversary! I feel for you!

[amy919]

That's just crazy! I'm glad no one was hurt! I looked at the Pacifica, but went with the Freestyle instead. If you like the crossovers, check it out. I'm very happy with mine.

I do have to say though, I wouldn't have let them off the hook so easily. Someone could have been seriously injured, killed even! I would not accept that they just admit to fault - they need to determine WHY this happened. For them to ignore it is just plain irresponsible. They'd have to do a lot more than just pay off my loan to satisfy me. I would not be happy with them shrugging this off. Talk about a major liability issue.

Amy

[jen_nah]

Sorry to hear about your car. That's just scary.. glad your kids weren't in the car at the time.

We have a Saturn Outlook and absolutely LOVE it! We have 2 car seats and keep our 3rd row down. With the 2nd row slid backwards *we have 2nd row bench* there's enough room for my dh to have the saet adjusted comfy and he's a big guy. ;) We've had ours since Feb, and I'm still really pleased with it. :D

So far I've had a Radian, snugride, SS1 and MA in there, right now the SS1 is middle and the MA passenger outboard. Driver outboard would need a bit of a narrower car seat than the MA in order to fit next to the SS1, but 3 across would be pretty easy to do.

I wish you lived closer so I could see if my Regents fit in the Outlook using SBP. When we had 1 for the week in Jan I got an AWESOME install with the LBP but never tried SBP.

[npr74]

Thank you for all of the good advice! We test drove both the Toyota Sequoia and the Saturn Outlook. Since the Outlook has better safety ratings (rollover & side impact) and better gas mileage and more upgrades for the same price and better warranty...we are buying a new Outlook. We have decided on the Ocean Mist (light blue) with grey cloth interior (Saturn will replace the seat if a stain will not come clean). It has everything on it...minus navigation, sunroof & leather. I pray that we will all be very happy in it. Thanks again for all of the advice!! I will update you all after we pick up our new car! :thumbsup:
Nicole

[npr74]

Here is a photo of my Pacifica on fire. This was taken by a guy with his cell phone.

Nicole :eek:

[stevel]

People tell you honda or Toyota, because they last forever. We have been through oh Tons of honda's (we've had every honda except for the CRV) and we've never had ONE single issue with ANY of them.

Not that domestic cars are bad.

Sorry to hear about your car! Wow.!

I'm with you for honda. can't go wrong. domestics have never been on par with honda and toyota. Now that toyota has passed GM as the biggest manufacturer in the world, that's proof that domestic car makers have some serious issues with quality and reliability......... probably more than I had to say. sorry. :o

[skaterbabscpst]

domestics have never been on par with honda and toyota.


Now that's debatable ad nauseum. :p

[UlrikeDG]

I hope the Saturn works well for you! :)

[nisi]

Yowza! That is scary. I'm so glad you're ok. A similar thing happened to my uncle a few years ago with his brand new Dodge Ram. IIRC it turned out to be some kind of flaw with the electrical system.

If you haven't done so already, I strongly encourage you to file a report with NHTSA. They'll keep track of any other reports and do an investigation if they feel it is warranted. If it's serious enough, sometimes one report is all it takes to launch an investigation. To file a report, you can call them at 1-888-327-4236 or file on the web at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

[CPSDarren]

Yowza! That is scary. I'm so glad you're ok. A similar thing happened to my uncle a few years ago with his brand new Dodge Ram. IIRC it turned out to be some kind of flaw with the electrical system.

If you haven't done so already, I strongly encourage you to file a report with NHTSA. They'll keep track of any other reports and do an investigation if they feel it is warranted. If it's serious enough, sometimes one report is all it takes to launch an investigation. To file a report, you can call them at 1-888-327-4236 or file on the web at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/


Definitely do this. It could have been a complete fluke, but if there is a pattern the NHTSA needs to know to force a recall.

[jen_nah]

I'm with you for honda. can't go wrong. domestics have never been on par with honda and toyota. Now that toyota has passed GM as the biggest manufacturer in the world, that's proof that domestic car makers have some serious issues with quality and reliability......... probably more than I had to say. sorry. :o


Okay this could so turn into a lively debate but I will refrain from even going there as you can go read some of the past debates on this to get correct information.

And, Toyota passing GM for 1 quarter so far isn't saying all that much. Not everyone can stay on top for ever. Seeing as GM has been the leader for how many years now something live 20yrs (maybe off a little on that number). That right there says a lot about GM and their products.

[stevel]

:shrug-shoulders:

consumer reports..... (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/which-companies-make-the-best-cars/overview/0407_best_cars.htm)

don't think this is based on their silly tests, like the car seat test... I think it's based on research of cars on the road, etc.

[stevel]

:shrug-shoulders: MSN top tellers?

msn autos (http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4019409)



I know, debate seems to be frowned upon on this site, isn't it?

[babidius]

That is so scary!!! I'm glad you got out okay!

[jen_nah]

:shrug-shoulders: MSN top tellers?

msn autos (http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4019409)



I know, debate seems to be frowned upon on this site, isn't it?

I am always up for a good debate but like I said I have posted all accurate info in other American vs Foreign automobiles and you can go search those on this forum. I wish not to repeat myself again and also out of respect of the other posters.

I am sorry but I don't believe a thing CR will ever say as they have been known on many products not just carseats to have gotten it wrong.

MSN is a politic and very libral so it is very one sided so when they can give unbiased information then I will believe it. Plus that is MSN picks on vehicles. That is all based on thier opinions.

Again, Please go read past debates on this. I have posted acurate from very well documented automobile publishers.

[jen_nah]

:shrug-shoulders: MSN top tellers?

msn autos (http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4019409)



I know, debate seems to be frowned upon on this site, isn't it?

I am always up for a good debate but like I said I have posted all accurate info in other American vs Foreign automobiles and you can go search those on this forum. I wish not to repeat myself again and also out of respect of the other posters.

I am sorry but I don't believe a thing CR will ever say as they have been known on many products not just carseats to have gotten it wrong.

MSN is a politic and very libral so it is very one sided so when they can give unbiased information then I will believe it.

If Toyota is so reliable and makes such a great product. Then tell me why Toyota has had more recalls then any other manufacture in the last 5yrs. Yep, There is that reliablity and excellent product.

Again, Please go read past debates on this. I have posted acurate from very well documented automobile publishers.

[southpawboston]

darn, i missed another good potential foreign vs. domestic debate!! :doh:

steve, along with the info from jen_nah in those previous threads, you'll find mine as well :whistle: , from someone who has worked on cars for 20 years, both foreign and domestic. :thumbsup: . enjoy! :p

[snowbird25ca]

Congrats on your new car! I'm sure you'll love it.

I wish you lived closer so I could see if my Regents fit in the Outlook using SBP. When we had 1 for the week in Jan I got an AWESOME install with the LBP but never tried SBP.

Yeah, and we don't even have the Regent in Canada for comparison... There's another poster here who recently bought an Outlook and had a thread about it in this forum. I wonder if they might have a Regent?

[stevel]

I am always up for a good debate but like I said I have posted all accurate info in other American vs Foreign automobiles and you can go search those on this forum.

gotta go further off-topic now..... I tried searching random words/phrases to find these past debates but my searches seem to not go back past 6/9/2007 no matter what I search for? :( search says from any date and newer, all open forums..........

[CPSDarren]

gotta go further off-topic now..... I tried searching random words/phrases to find these past debates but my searches seem to not go back past 6/9/2007 no matter what I search for? :( search says from any date and newer, all open forums..........

Not sure, mine seems to be working ok for the few searches I just tried.

[anysia]

Okay this could so turn into a lively debate but I will refrain from even going there as you can go read some of the past debates on this to get correct information.

And, Toyota passing GM for 1 quarter so far isn't saying all that much. Not everyone can stay on top for ever. Seeing as GM has been the leader for how many years now something live 20yrs (maybe off a little on that number). That right there says a lot about GM and their products.

it says mostly that as americans we were in a strong "buy american" phase for awhile. now people have opened up more and more and more as new generations have come of age and watched their elders struggle with cars in very sad states compared to cars of those who strayed from the norm of buy american. growing up and in the year since i've owned my own cars, noone could pay me enough to drive 99% of the big 3 american car co's (or any of the other makes they've sucked up over the recent years). too many issues that should not be issues and things that are blatant horrid safety issues (like gen 3 seatbelts, wheels falling off, this engine fire issue, etc...)

meanwhile i've watched people beat their honda's and toyota's up and the things keep going....

at any rate, someone needs to keep buying american to help them prove the proclaimed better reliability. and i'm not going to be the one doing it, so i'll let those who want to take that chance go for it! ;)

in the meantime, i'll continue driving the cars that won't need the repeated engine rebuilds, tranmission rebuilds, seatbelt failures, lost wheels on the highway, and random shutdowns when driving (ah the 95 dodge caravan was such a lovely thing..... :thumbsdown: ) and i'll continue dealing with the car co's that willingly recall potential problems before being forced to by the government.

**edit** i forgot to mention what constitutes a major problem to an american car owner versus a foreign car owner is drastically different. and i see this argument repeatedly even amongst my family who are in die-hard "buy american" mindset.... not one of the extended or immediate family has strayed from american made until i started buying cars. listening to them talk you would think they bought the worst car ever made, but to them, it's awesome and has been through so much and never needed any major repairs and how they can keep them running for years. in the same breath they'll talk about the last engine rebuild they needed....... we've also had the safety versus cost discussion-a family member with an 04 aveo cramming a carseat and 2 adults in the backseat even though chevy recommends against it..... chevy won't state WHY, but a reasonably educated guess would be the crash test results are horrid.... there are so many other cars they could've chosen at the price they paid for this car, but they claim it's all they could afford....

[stevel]

:ROTFLMAO: :cool!:

anyone guess..... my DW?

[jen_nah]

it says mostly that as americans we were in a strong "buy american" phase for awhile. now people have opened up more and more and more as new generations have come of age and watched their elders struggle with cars in very sad states compared to cars of those who strayed from the norm of buy american. growing up and in the year since i've owned my own cars, noone could pay me enough to drive 99% of the big 3 american car co's (or any of the other makes they've sucked up over the recent years). too many issues that should not be issues and things that are blatant horrid safety issues (like gen 3 seatbelts, wheels falling off, this engine fire issue, etc...)

meanwhile i've watched people beat their honda's and toyota's up and the things keep going....

at any rate, someone needs to keep buying american to help them prove the proclaimed better reliability. and i'm not going to be the one doing it, so i'll let those who want to take that chance go for it! ;)

in the meantime, i'll continue driving the cars that won't need the repeated engine rebuilds, tranmission rebuilds, seatbelt failures, lost wheels on the highway, and random shutdowns when driving (ah the 95 dodge caravan was such a lovely thing..... :thumbsdown: ) and i'll continue dealing with the car co's that willingly recall potential problems before being forced to by the government.


And, Those same things can be said for the people that have owned forgein vehicles with nothing but issues. I had an '03 VW Passat prior to my Tahoe and in the 18mths we owned it it was in the shop 21 times. The 1st time the vehicle was only 2wks old for a major oil leak and if my dh hadn't been a car guru (we build race motors) would have never noticed it as it never pool on the ground under the vehicle. Yep, That could have lead to a blown engine.

I won't go into the nit picking of stupid things that had to be fixed on top of the major issues. We had it 6mths and the airbag senors went out. Now talk about safety failure. Yep, It was a POS and we got rid of ASAP. We have owned 10 GM vehicle & 3 Fords. Of all 13 vehicles we have owned only 1 I had to have the a/c replaced and that was on our 5yr old Ford Mustang.

Currently we have an '02 2500HS Silverado (bought in Sept. '01) that has over 90k on it and has not had 1 single issue. We also have an '05 Tahoe that has 37k on it and again not 1 single issue.

I am not saying American or Foreign haven't had their issues as they all have. But, To say forgein is more reliable isn't accurate information either.

Okay I am done with debate as I said before I don't want to keep going around in circles. I have posted accurate info in past debates on in this forum itself.

[stevel]

I have posted accurate info in past debates on in this forum itself.
I had issues searching, so.....
and accurate as determined by who? just sources that you trust more than others?

VW? yeah, they're bad......

[Erika Ruth]

I TOTALLY Want to find these threads! :)

We are getting our first "American" made car in a few weeks. I have been all Honda since I was 16, so that is 12 years of Hondas. We have never had a problem with any of them, at all.

The only reason we have sold any of them was because they were totalled, they didn't have air conditioning, and now, because we need a minivan.

However, my "Japanese car" was made in Canada, and has offices right down the street from me here in Torrance.

I used to think, buy for a global economy, but after everything that has happened in China reciently, I wonder if I could go even a month without buying somthing that wasn't manufactured in China (I doubt it).

Okay, back to the original thread... Really, I hope you report it, and you should take them to small claims for for cost of your rental car, and the cost of the number of hours it took you to deal with this. You should be out NO money whatsover. I think you would have a pretty good case for small claims court to get reimbursed for your expenses.

Hope you have found a car that works really well for your family, domestic or foriegn!

Erika

[lovinwaves]

Here's My :twocents: .....

DH and I will NOT buy American for several reasons... If American manufacturers would make a vehicle we love as much as our previous foreign we would pounce in a heartbeat.

It's not *just* reliability, resale value, etc.. It's sooooo much more than that for me.

-Ergonomics of the interior
-Performance, the way it feels when you drive it
-Interior Class, is it plasticky, or is it nicer
-Style
-The way the doors shut
-the intricate details
-the way the engine sounds and feels
-the way it looks in 5 years
-Safety, Safety, Safety
-Additional hidden features. Honda has A TON OF THEM, I could go on and on.. But, go to www.hondanews.com and see for yourself all the hidden wonderful safety and convenience features for example the Odyssey has. AMAZING!
-Standard features
-Price
-Customer Service AFTER the purchase
-Will the manufacture do recalls on their own?

I think you get the picture...

I LOVE LOVE LOVE, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Acura, BMW, Infiniti (may be our next purchase), VW(not so much as I used to though)

And THANK THE LORD that I married a husband that is as passionate as I am when it comes to cars. He has owned several American and let's just say he has strong opinions about it. Needless to say, we are an all foreign car fam now :)

[anysia]

Here's My :twocents: .....

DH and I will NOT buy American for several reasons... If American manufacturers would make a vehicle we love as much as our previous foreign we would pounce in a heartbeat.

It's not *just* reliability, resale value, etc.. It's sooooo much more than that for me.

-Ergonomics of the interior
-Performance, the way it feels when you drive it
-Interior Class, is it plasticky, or is it nicer
-Style
-The way the doors shut
-the intricate details
-the way the engine sounds and feels
-the way it looks in 5 years
-Safety, Safety, Safety
-Additional hidden features. Honda has A TON OF THEM, I could go on and on.. But, go to www.hondanews.com and see for yourself all the hidden wonderful safety and convenience features for example the Odyssey has. AMAZING!
-Standard features
-Price
-Customer Service AFTER the purchase
-Will the manufacture do recalls on their own?

I think you get the picture...

I LOVE LOVE LOVE, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Acura, BMW, Infiniti (may be our next purchase), VW(not so much as I used to though)

And THANK THE LORD that I married a husband that is as passionate as I am when it comes to cars. He has owned several American and let's just say he has strong opinions about it. Needless to say, we are an all foreign car fam now :)

cars are an area i'm pretty passionate about as well. i don't think i'd be able to deal with a husband who had drastically different viewpoints on them than i do! i found my husband online a couple of years ago on a forum about accords. ;)

i should note, in the past few years my parents have gradually begun to see the "light" and have switched from dodge/ford/chevy products that they have always owned and now own an old volvo (pre-ford days) and a nissan.... while i wouldn't personally do a nissan (or volvo), they're a huge step up for them and they've been extremely happy with the switches and have loved the minimal issues that they've dealt with compared to their past vehicles. :thumbsup: too bad the extended family hasn't quite caught on yet!

[southpawboston]

I had an '03 VW Passat prior to my Tahoe and in the 18mths we owned it it was in the shop 21 times. The 1st time the vehicle was only 2wks old for a major oil leak and if my dh hadn't been a car guru (we build race motors) would have never noticed it as it never pool on the ground under the vehicle. Yep, That could have lead to a blown engine.

I won't go into the nit picking of stupid things that had to be fixed on top of the major issues. We had it 6mths and the airbag senors went out. Now talk about safety failure. Yep, It was a POS and we got rid of ASAP.

lol, no one is disagreeing with you there, jen_nah. VWs have major problems. i use the term "foreign" too loosely. i think i and others are referring more to japanese owned companies.

I TOTALLY Want to find these threads! :)


well here's one:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=14675&highlight=american

[stevel]

lol, no one is disagreeing with you there, jen_nah. VWs have major problems. i use the term "foreign" too loosely. i think i and others are referring more to japanese owned companies.



well here's one:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=14675&highlight=american

very good read. :thumbsup: although it didn't discuss much about quality/reliability between domestics/japs from what I got out of it......

[Erika Ruth]

Wow! I see that this has all been discussed before! Wow!

Since I have owned 6 Honda products myself (None with problems at all), I really can't participate in the debate.

Anyway, thanks for the link! It was very interesting!

Erika

[southpawboston]

yeah, that was more political, but there were other threads... i'm having a hard time searching for them as well...

but one point that's worth mentioning is that i do think the gap is narrowing significantly between domestics and the japanese brands. for one, most cars today are built on global platforms with shared components and technologies (think mazda/ford/volvo, or GM/saab). add in highly optimised robotics and assembly plants that are virtually identical whether they're in michigan, mexico or hiroshima, and the assembly-quality gap has also certainly narrowed to the point of being a non-issue (look at the subaru outbacks).

what surprises me most, however, is that while everyone univerally raves about toyota/honda, if you look at their reliability ratings, some models do worse than some models by domestic, european or japanese makers.

[jen_nah]

very good read. :thumbsup: although it didn't discuss much about quality/reliability between domestics/japs from what I got out of it......

stevel,

There are several othe threads on here. They mostly started out from someone posting a question in regards to a type of vehicle and it went from there.

I am all for people buying what they like & need out of a vehicle. All I want to do is educate that some of the reliablity/resell is a myth.

lovinwaves said in her above post about forgien looking nicer afte 5yrs. Things like that aren't manufacture based. That is owner based. It' how the vehicle owner takes care of the vehicle. For example my dh truck is 6yrs old and look brand new (no dents, dings, scratches on it). This is because we take pride in our property and take the time and effort to keep our vehicles looking nice. I see all kinds of vehicles (all brands) around here that look like crap that are just few years old b/c the owner doesn't care.

Every vehicle manufacture has issues period no way around that. So, Reliability is really a presception. Where 2 different people will have different experances with 2 of the same model vehicles.

We are about keeping America based companies strong. We look at the lack of equal trade between Japan & US. We look at where our bottom dollar is going to stay. We want to keep American workers in work. We want to keep our countries economy strong for our children.

I hate when I see/hear people (not saying anyone on here) say
"GM/Ford need to go belly up.". What these people don't understand what that would do to our countries ecomony. You thought the last recession was bad just think if we lost the big automakers. They contribute a HUFE chuck to our economy/taxes/etc...

I also hate when I hear people say they hate automobile unions. WHY? Unions are a good thing. They keep workers working. Sure they make higher pay but is that a bad thing? Don't they deserve to be able to provide for their families like we do? Most people don't relieze that US autoworkers are less likely to be injuried on the job then forgien autoworkers. They provide penisons, retirement, healthcare where Honda/Toyota don't get some of those luxuries. That is where unions are a great thing.

Stevel like you and your wife we are huge and very passionate about vehicle. We love to build and race sports cars (Camaro, Corvette, GTO & Mustangs the true sports cars). That is actually how dh & I meet cough cough over 10yrs ago. We currently don't have any play toys as we just sold our GTO but next year will be adding atleast 1 Mustang possible another or maybe another Camaro.

[MySillyKids]

Wow! I see that this has all been discussed before! Wow!

Since I have owned 6 Honda products myself (None with problems at all), I really can't participate in the debate.

Anyway, thanks for the link! It was very interesting!

Erika

:yeahthat: to a T.

[Dragonflymama]

[QUOTE=jen_nah;179879]

I hate when I see/hear people (not saying anyone on here) say
"GM/Ford need to go belly up.". What these people don't understand what that would do to our countries ecomony. You thought the last recession was bad just think if we lost the big automakers. They contribute a HUFE chuck to our economy/taxes/etc...

I also hate when I hear people say they hate automobile unions. WHY? Unions are a good thing. They keep workers working. Sure they make higher pay but is that a bad thing? Don't they deserve to be able to provide for their families like we do? Most people don't relieze that US autoworkers are less likely to be injuried on the job then forgien autoworkers. They provide penisons, retirement, healthcare where Honda/Toyota don't get some of those luxuries. That is where unions are a great thing.

[QUOTE]

:yeahthat:

[lovinwaves]

stevel,

There are several othe threads on here. They mostly started out from someone posting a question in regards to a type of vehicle and it went from there.

I am all for people buying what they like & need out of a vehicle. All I want to do is educate that some of the reliablity/resell is a myth.

lovinwaves said in her above post about forgien looking nicer afte 5yrs. Things like that aren't manufacture based. That is owner based. It' how the vehicle owner takes care of the vehicle. For example my dh truck is 6yrs old and look brand new (no dents, dings, scratches on it). This is because we take pride in our property and take the time and effort to keep our vehicles looking nice. I see all kinds of vehicles (all brands) around here that look like crap that are just few years old b/c the owner doesn't care.



Actually, that's not what I meant. I am talking more about Style, and the model "looking old", and I never said that Foreigns don't look old after 5 years. I just said that was something important to me when purchasing a vehicle. I can think of plenty foreign that I don't think look good after 5 years, and I'm NOT talking about how well the owner cared for the vehicle ;)

[southpawboston]

lovinwaves said in her above post about forgien looking nicer afte 5yrs. Things like that aren't manufacture based. That is owner based. It' how the vehicle owner takes care of the vehicle. For example my dh truck is 6yrs old and look brand new (no dents, dings, scratches on it). This is because we take pride in our property and take the time and effort to keep our vehicles looking nice. I see all kinds of vehicles (all brands) around here that look like crap that are just few years old b/c the owner doesn't care.


lovinwaves' comment wasn't untrue at all. some makes just hold up visually better than others with similar care. that is a fact, and i have witnessed it firsthand. every VW i have owned has had the interior disintegrate after a few years and less than 50,000 miles. the plastics begin to scratch and peel, and the upholstery wears thin and becomes threadbare after a short time. that has not happened on any japanese vehicle i have owned. on the other hand, the carpeting on my almost new mazda3 is cheap and already wearing thin, and it only has 9,000 cared-for miles. this was a shortcut that mazda made, no doubt. i just have to live with it. another issue i've experienced first hand is interior plastics fading/discloring. this has happened to all the american cars i've owned throughout the 80s and 90s but hasn't happened on a german or japanese car i've owned. i also recall that the exterior plastics of some of the american cars i've owned (weatherstripping, for example) shrank and split over time, again nothing that has ever happened on a japanese car i've owned. also realize i've owned four american cars, four german cars, and five japanese cars, so my sample number is significant enough at least for dicsussion. so the argument that the way a car looks after five years has nothing to do with the make and everything to do with the owner's maintenance is not true.

[sanctareparata]

I recommend starting out with crash test results and going from there:
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) Tests (http://www.iihs.org/ratings/default.aspx) (independent)
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Tests (http://www.safercar.gov/) (government)

What's up with the difference in ratings from one site to the next? We have a Pontiac Montana SV6 and in the insurance site it rates a POOR and on the NHTSA site it's averaging a GOOD 4/5 stars. ??? Strange.

[Jeanum]

NHTSA and IIHS crash tests differ in parameters such as the crash speed and impact type. The IIHS tests tend to be more rigorous than NHTSA's. For instance, the NHTSA frontal test is at 35 mph while the IIHS conducts an offset frontal crash test at 40 mph. http://www.safercar.gov/info.htm#iq8 and http://www.iihs.org/ratings/default.aspx provide the details of the NHTSA and IIHS crash testing parameters.

www.informedforlife.org is another excellent resource for evaluating a model's safety. The site's owner compiles all of the various crash test results for each vehicle model, and plugs the results into a formula to assign the model an overall safety rating score. It's very helpful for comparing different vehicles, apples to oranges. :)

[CPSDarren]

The tests measure responses to different types of impacts. One does not supercede the other, they are complementary. Ideally, you want a vehicle that does well in both sets of frontal and side impacts.

[Erika Ruth]

We are trading our Honda Accord for a Town and Country. I have looked at the Crash ratings, and see that in a big frontal collision, I might break my legs. I can live with that. (great huh?). But, when I compared it to other models in the same price range, they did just as bad. So, we'll just have to go with it.

I also know about the seat belts. I'll look at how much it is to replace them, but I've also decided to NOT put two car seats next to each other (so they don't rub or bounce on the stalk). I'll also be a stickler about loose objects in the car (minimizing the risk as much as possible).

Hopefully, those things, along with having properly restrained children will help a lot.

The T&C we are getting is a 1997, and we are trading a 1998 Accord with the same amount of miles.

BOTH cars are holding up fine. Our Honda has a wanky lock that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, and right now, after some freak opened a car door on our door handle, it can't be opened from the outside (we can get it fixed, but haven't bothered, in an accident, they can just break the window, or it can be opened from the inside, so it is no different than having it "locked"). The paint on both is fine, the interior on both is fine, and the materials are holding up fine. So, I just assume, as some of you have suggested, that it is model specific. Some are more cheaply made than others (and for a while, the US cars had that reputation, and it is hard for us coasters (west coast), who are used to SO MANY foreign cars on the road to get over that block that "American is bad" (Really, I only know 2 people who drive American where I live, and one of them is a 2006 Suburban, and the other one is a very old Ford Van).

The real question as I see it, that has been rattling around in my brain a lot, is, I am thinking more and more about going all American. I just wonder how much we, as a nation, rely on our "trade partners". I was wondering if it would even be possible to run a household on ONLY American made products. Could I buy an American made toothbrush, where not only was it assembled in the US, but the plastic was manufactured here as well? Even if I made my own clothing, most fabric is made in China. Even the food I eat, has ingredients from China. (Like the Veggie Bootie that just had the outbreak). Could I buy American made baby bottles? What about a crib?

And the big question.... Is there an American made car seat?

I have been tinkering with the idea of only buying American made products for an entire month and seeing what would happen. My mom thinks I'll SAVE a lot of money, because I won't be able to find much to buy, even though the items I buy will be more expensive.

Has anyone done this experiment?

Erika

[Erika Ruth]

Totally OT, but fun... Okay, I found someone who did it, went an ENTIRE year without buying China made...

I also discovered.... Cosco Carseats are made in the USA. :)

here is the link I found on living without China.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1220/p09s01-coop.html

[jen_nah]

Totally OT, but fun... Okay, I found someone who did it, went an ENTIRE year without buying China made...

I also discovered.... Cosco Carseats are made in the USA. :)

here is the link I found on living without China.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1220/p09s01-coop.html

That is cool about Cosco. I know Britax is US but the covers are Mexico.

[Loves2sing]

Wow, I am so glad that you're safe! That is crazy!!! Makes me a little scared about our new truck! As far as new vehicle recommendations, I second the Mazda CX9. It is a awesome SUV!

[MySillyKids]

Totally OT, but fun... Okay, I found someone who did it, went an ENTIRE year without buying China made...

I also discovered.... Cosco Carseats are made in the USA. :)

here is the link I found on living without China.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1220/p09s01-coop.html

Yes, she stopped living with out china, but she still didn't seek out the full 100% USA experience. She bought shoes from Italy.

So, its either China, or some other country.

[jen_nah]

Yes, she stopped living with out china, but she still didn't seek out the full 100% USA experience. She bought shoes from Italy.

So, its either China, or some other country.

I haven't throughly looked over the above posted site. I can say in countries like Italy the labor laws are by far more superiour then in China & some other countries.

I love buying custom boutique clothes for the girls & myself. I may pay more but at least I know their are made in the US and several ladies I buy my custom pieces only buy fabric made in the US.

Sure I can't cut China products completely out of my life but if there is a US maker or even another country with better labor laws I will buy that item instead even if it costs more. But, When it comes to big ticket items I am sure going with US brands over forgein if I have the options.

[CPSDarren]

I haven't throughly looked over the above posted site. I can say in countries like Italy the labor laws are by far more superiour then in China & some other countries.

I love buying custom boutique clothes for the girls & myself. I may pay more but at least I know their are made in the US and several ladies I buy my custom pieces only buy fabric made in the US.

Sure I can't cut China products completely out of my life but if there is a US maker or even another country with better labor laws I will buy that item instead even if it costs more. But, When it comes to big ticket items I am sure going with US brands over forgein if I have the options.


I have no problem buying from countries I perceive to have similar costs of living, similar environmental protections, similar protections for workers and other issues that make costs of doing business higher.

Countries like China, India and others in the far east do not generally have these basic protections. Of course, there are some exceptions like Japan. The problem is like everyone else has said, it's tough to find many items that are not made in China.

Right now we import the vast majority of smaller items and lower paying jobs to China and the far east. Higher paying jobs are being outsourced there now, too, which is a very disturbing trend for our economy. Just wait till they start importing competent cars from China. Japanese cars and Korean cars will be the least of the worries the domestic companies have. They'll be put out of business by companies they partner with right now and have essentially already given them all the manufacturing knowledge they need:-(

[Dragonflymama]

When it comes to the quality of interior and exterior trim, ergonomics and attractiveness, I can certainly cite examples where the Japanese had lagged far behind the US automakers for a long time. Inteh last decade, Japanese styling and interior quality of materials has improved quite a bit and often rivals (or exceeds) a US vehicle in the same class. Btu 15 years ago, even the "high end" Japanese cars were often plastic-y, uncomfortable and made with lower-end trim and interior mateials (IMO).

For example- the Ford/Mazda platform share models in the late 1980s (Mazda 323 and Mercury Tracer). As dorky as the Tracer name was, it certaily had a more luxerious interior, better-lasting door latches and higher quality interior fabrics. I saw many 323s on the road with missing exterior trim. Not so with the Tracers. Other issues plagued that era 323 as well (brakes, exterior paint).

Also, more recently, in the early Ford Escapes/Mazda Tributes, teh Escapes had much better interior selctionadn mor e"solid" feel, and that was just 5-6 years ago. I'll admit that the more recent Tributes are much better styled.


I just dont think it serves well to generalize US vs Japanese/Korean vs European. If you compare apples to apples (cars in same performance and price class) my opinion is that there are success stories and failures from all the automakers. I mean, a BMW 550 will certainly out-perform a Chevy Cavalier in all categories, but that is not a fair comparison.

JMHO.

[southpawboston]

For example- the Ford/Mazda platform share models in the late 1980s (Mazda 323 and Mercury Tracer). As dorky as the Tracer name was, it certaily had a more luxerious interior, better-lasting door latches and higher quality interior fabrics. I saw many 323s on the road with missing exterior trim. Not so with the Tracers. Other issues plagued that era 323 as well (brakes, exterior paint).

that's strange, because if you compare the next generation up from the mazda 323/mercury tracer (mazda protege/ford escort), the protege clearly had the advantage to interior and exterior fit and finish. i had friends with escorts (and i have a sister who currently still owns an old escort), while i myself had a protege, and the difference was clear as day. it was also reflected in the price, as the protege was slightly more expensive than the escort. slightly different marketing niches.

my father also owned the older generation 323 (we're a big mazda family). btw, it shared the same exact brakes as the mercury tracer, so the 323 couldn't have had brake issues that the tracer didn't. and the missing trim, that's because you could special order a stripped-down 323 for a base price of $6300 back in 1989 (which is what my father had :rolleyes:). vinyl seats, no side moldings, no wheel covers and no radio. the tracer was marketed as a mercury, which is considered a more "premium" version of a ford. so it didn't make sense for mercury to sell a stripped down tracer... of course they put the nicer fabrics in it. but it's also comparing cars from two slightly different marketing niches.

if you want to go back 15 years, the best comparisons would be cars aimed at the same market niches, such as chevy cavalier versus toyota corolla versus honda civic versus ford escort, or honda accord versus toyota camry versus pontiac grand am versus ford taurus, or acura legend versus lexus ES300 versus caddy catera (hah!). when you put it into that perspective, it's clear that the japanese pretty much always had the advantage. but as i said earlier, that gap is narrowing, for sure.

[anysia]

some points:

i would never actually rank mazda as being foreign any more. i wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole after problems i've seen surface in them, not to mention they have a very cheap interior look and feel. the one thing i will give mazda (**cough*** ford....) on the current cars is the exterior is decent.

i would never buy a nissan-too many issues and excruciatingly painfully cheap looking interiors. :thumbsdown: they get worse with each new model they release it seems.....

saab-again-not with a 10 foot pole....

most of the "foreign" ones that american auto makers now have huge stakes in have slid pretty far down in overall quality of looks and they seem to be heading the same direction reliability wise.

one major issue with reliability is what you consider a reliability problem and what you don't. what i notice is a large bulk of people seem to side pationately with either american or one foreign make. and the reliability issues vary drastically. a foreign manufacturer car is deemed "unreliable" due to a rattle in the dash or a cd player that flaked out. in american manufacturer counterparts, those are laughable nuisances at best. not at all reliability issues. given most of the sources reporting reliability are taking any and all problems into account to determine reliability, this puts a major glitch into what determines reliability. you cannot get accurate ratings from that at all. what determines "reliability" in a consumer's mind is their perception of what they think they should get quality wise out of the car they're buying. and alot of what you think you should get is based off of prior experiences with cars. if you had a car that needed 2 engine rebuilds in 5 years of ownership then have one that only needed one rebuild in 5 years, you'd consider that a huge leap in the realm of reliability. however, there may be another car you never considered that would've gotten you 10 years and double the miles with no rebuilds. kwim?

i am all against unions. i have worked in a union dictated business and numerous ones sans unions. i'd choose no union anyday because unions eventually HURT the employees. the problem is once in the unionized mindset, you think you are owed this pay raise and that pay raise regardless of your work quality and how the business is doing. it's honestly no wonder so many union shops have dug themselves right into the ground. while, yes, anyone in their right mind would love to work for a union and get consistent pay raises and be able to buy the best this and that, there is a flip side to being the overpaid and benefitted employee..... when it all comes crashing down because the comapny cannot support the overinflated paychecks, you're out of a job. and you will have a hard time finding another job that will enable you to continue that level of living.

honda and toyota in particular have invested loads of money in building new plants in the us. they are hiring us employees. quite possibly hiring some of those dropped by ford, gm, etc, whenever the going gets so tough that those former employees are finally willing to work for a reasonable pay rate in order to put food on the table.

once the quality of american products picks up (and in my opinion they still have a LOOOONG way to go), then i'lll consider more american made products.

till then, bring on the honda's/sony's/etc. ;) i'm investing my hard earned money in the things that i get the greatest return on my investment in.

oh, and on the subject of what cars look newer/older? defintiely foreign ones have a leg up on this as well. it doesn't matter how beat up the 10 year old toyota or honda is, it still looks more current than any of the equivalently aged ford/gm.

i wouldn't even touch a hyundai..... reliability better in recent years? compared to what???? :rolleyes: maybe compared to their prior vehicles, but certainly not compared to the mass market......

[npr74]

UPDATE: A man from the NHTSA contacted me. Another Pacifica caught on fire just like mine did. Our stories are identical. Two other Pacificas amost caught on fire due to a power steering fluid leak (the hose came loose). He believes this is why mine caught on fire. He requested my photos, and said the NHTSA will probably do a formal investigation. I am to check back with him in 2 weeks.
Nicole
PS-We are still very happy with our Saturn Outlook! :)

[andbabiesmake4]

WOW! I didn't see this post until now, I know it's old.. but I just wanted to say I'm glad you're okay!!

The SAME thing happened to us last June with our '05 Grand Am ... lit up for "no reason" .. we've never recieved a formal report yet. We were thinking of getting a Pacifica but DH got a blazer instead and I drive the f150.. thank GOODNESS we never went with a Pacifica... I can imagine what insurance would think if we had 2 vehicles burn to the groud.

[MomToEliEm]

UPDATE: A man from the NHTSA contacted me. Another Pacifica caught on fire just like mine did. Our stories are identical. Two other Pacificas amost caught on fire due to a power steering fluid leak (the hose came loose). He believes this is why mine caught on fire. He requested my photos, and said the NHTSA will probably do a formal investigation. I am to check back with him in 2 weeks.
Nicole
PS-We are still very happy with our Saturn Outlook! :)

I sure hope that they figure out the cause and issue a recall if needed. No one else should go through the same thing you went through.