Okay is anyone just P*SSED as much as I am?

[jen_nah]

Here I sit with a Regent manufactured last March installed LBP, recline bar & top tethered for my 44lb dd in dh truck. I can NOT for the life of me install this seat in this position using the SBP. The seatbelt stalk is to long even with 3 full twists. I can't move it as I have another Regent in the other outboard position installed with the SBP, recline bar & top tethered for my 42lb dd. So, I have to use SBP on both seat now.

So, Here I sit with a $280 seat that I can no longer use. I am MAD and I mean MAD. I just got off work and of course Britax closes at some stupid A$$ hours. Hello I am CST which means they close right in the middle of my work day. I can't call from work as I am working with patients.

So, Britax is now going to force me to put my petite dd who is about to outgrow her MA into a booster seat. This is beyond STUPID.

[scatterbunny]

I feel your pain. I guess I'm lucky in that I own a Husky, which apparently is different enough from the Regent to be okay using the LBP for heavier kids, but I cannot get a solid install using the SBP+recline bar in my Windstar, except in one position, due to rigid, plastic buckle stalks in the middle row and forward-of-the-bight buckle stalks in the third row. I'd be royally peeved if I had a Regent that now required SBP; Hayley would have to go outboard in the third row, which puts her too far from me for my liking, and too close to the side of the vehicle, and it blocks quite a bit of my view out the rear window. I want her in the middle row. And the Husky expires next year, so we'll need a Regent anyway, if I want to keep her harnessed as long as possible.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Yes I am pissed off as well.

I now have two useless seats and I don't have the booster seat option. I have to get the Recaro seats, and probably Marathons to use in the meantime.

Britax needs to make this right or I will stop using them or suggesting them.

I alone have purchased 3 Marathon, 2 Wizards, 5 Boulevards, 2 Regents, 1 Companion, oh I forgot the 2 Parkways!!! Not to mention the countless others I have referred. I can think of $15,000 worth of seats I have bought or convinced people to buy from them.

So yeah, I'm pissed. Now I'm without useable seats and I can not afford to buy them right now. So what am I supposed to do?

They don't know... the supervisor is "Researching" it.

[papooses]

FWIW, the rep I spoke to said the seat still passes the federal standards with the old instructions -- they're trying to "enhance" performance although performance is not lacking to begin with.... It's pretty stupid. But, if I were in your situation & you if don't think kiddo is ready for a booster, then I would continue using it with your current method of installation :shrug-shoulders: It might not be as great as if you could get it installed the way they want you to now, but if it's still passing the federal standard then I personally wouldn't switch my kid to a booster just yet :o I'm not saying we should all disregard the change from Britax, but in certain situations a lesser evil is just that.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

But Tiffany.... here is the problem with doing that in my mind.

We are told that if we do not use the seat according to the manual, the warranty is void, correct?

So this means if Jen got into an accident and needed her seats replaced, her insurance could refuse to replace them because they weren't used correctly. OR if something happened to her child Britax could be free of liability because the seat wasn't used correctly.

Before I will be willing to go against the manual I want it in writing from Britax that it is okay to use the lbp for bigger kids or the spb for smaller kids. I want it in writing that it won't affect my warranty or my ability to sue someone should I need to.

If it was still acceptable then it should have said the "preferred" way to install is lbp for 22-40lbs and sbp for 40-80. But it ONLY gives those options in the new manual.

See my issue here?? We would be going against manufacters advice which is going against everything we tell people.

[scatterbunny]

But aren't federal standards only for seats up to 65 pounds? So essentially, Britax just assures us that the seat performs fine for kids over that weight, but we don't know for sure? I guess with all of this, I just want to know what they consider to be a "fine" performance, and what makes this new way "better" but the old way "fine", too.

[UlrikeDG]

We are told that if we do not use the seat according to the manual, the warranty is void, correct?

So this means if Jen got into an accident and needed her seats replaced, her insurance could refuse to replace them because they weren't used correctly.

Voiding the warranty has nothing to do with collision insurance. It means if you damage the seat doing it wrong, the manufacturer doesn't have to replace/repair it.

Hypothetically, if your state has a "proper use" clause in their child restraint law, you could be ticketed for not following the instructions. However, it would be a BIZARRE set of circumstances that would lead to you getting a ticket for anything short of egregious misuse.

In today's society, juries award large settlements even to families of injured children whose seats were being grossly misused, so I doubt using the alternative belt path would have much, if any, affect on your ability to hold Britax liable in the unfortunate event of an injury- or mortality- causing crash.

For me, the biggest issues would be:
1) Does the "alternative" belt path truly provide adequate protection in a crash?
2) If it doesn't meet FMVSS, why are they saying it does?
3) If it does meet FMVSS, why, oh WHY are they making things so damned complicated with this recall, rather than simply stating, "We wanted to let you know that this way performs better, but both are acceptable?"

[papooses]

what makes this new way "better" but the old way "fine", too.

Exactly. That's what they're not answering. She made it perfectly clear that it meets the standards as it was before, but couldn't/wouldn't say why they want to change it other than repeating that they want to enhance performance. This isn't an acceptable defense to me for why this happening, but without them explaining the difference in more detail I'm just not yet convinced that it's serious enough yet to warrant freaking out :confused: I mean they can't even explain specifically why/how the Husky is so different yet they're adamant about being able to use the same old instructions for the Husky still (methinks they merely aren't testing the Husky anymore & if they're so concerned with their behinds then why would they say the Husky is safe without even knowing?) :scratcheshead: I'm personally less concerned with voiding warrantee than I am with keeping my kid buckled properly -- so I might not get a refund, but I wouldn't anyway now that there's an otherwise useless seat: if a kid cannot sit in a booster correctly, then I personally would make the parental choice to use the old method installation until/unless they explain precisely what the ____ is going on....

[papooses]

For me, the biggest issues would be:
1) Does the "alternative" belt path truly provide adequate protection in a crash?
2) If it doesn't meet FMVSS, why are they saying it does?
3) If it does meet FMVSS, why, oh WHY are they making things so damned complicated with this recall, rather than simply stating, "We wanted to let you know that this way performs better, but both are acceptable?"

YES, yes & yes!

They gave me the run-around when I asked these questions, just kept repeating that kids have been safe the last 2 years because it still meets the standard with the old installation method, but they want to "enhance performance". Answering my question with the same words that I asked for clarification on :doh: Which is why part of my thinks it's all hogwash & if a kid is truly not ready for a booster then I'd keep using the old method *if* the new method is impossible to achieve -- either way is incorrect....

[SafeandSecureBaby]

Britax is going to be one of the last people sued, if at all, in a child injury from a car crash. You would have to show that the seat somehow under performed, or did not perform as intended to even begin thinking about suing Britax. The other driver is the better target in a lawsuit, or some road condition that caused the collision. It is important to remember that just because our children are in car seats, doesn't mean that they won't get hurt in a collision. It just means that they are less likely to be seriously injured. Not all car collisions are survivable and many will result in injury no matter how well prepared we are. Just my :twocents: on our law suit happy society.

[jen_nah]

Well I can say this "THEY WILL BE BUYING MY BRAND NEW SEAT BACK!" I will not have a seat that I can no longer use per their new instructions just sitting in my garage. I will just put Kaylee in dh truck for the time being or move her MA back and forth if need be and order a Recaro instead.

[LuvBug03]

But aren't federal standards only for seats up to 65 pounds? So essentially, Britax just assures us that the seat performs fine for kids over that weight, but we don't know for sure? I guess with all of this, I just want to know what they consider to be a "fine" performance, and what makes this new way "better" but the old way "fine", too.

exactly

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Well I can say this "THEY WILL BE BUYING MY BRAND NEW SEAT BACK!" I will not have a seat that I can no longer use per their new instructions just sitting in my garage. I will just put Kaylee in dh truck for the time being or move her MA back and forth if need be and order a Recaro instead.

My opinion exactly. Except that I don't have spare seats and I can't even use the Regents according to the new instructions. They are not compatible with any vehicle I can currently drive.

So I need Britax to explain to me what I'm supposed to do. And I want it in writing that the other way is equally safe. That way if it DOES fail in an accident I CAN sue them. Just like when you ask for a letter from the insurance company saying they will be responsible if they don't replace a seat and if fails in the next crash. I know you wouldn't actually sue Britax, but this is the type of thinking I have.

I'm very non confrontational. I'm just saying that I want the options there should I need them. Therefor I want it in writing that this is just as safe. I can't afford to replace these seats right now, I'll be lucky to afford the Recaros in a couple months. They need to help me because I've shelled out the money to keep my kids safe in seats that were compatible with my vehicle. Now that they have changed the rules and they aren't compatible anymore, they need to help me find a solution.

[jen_nah]

I am SCREWED all around. I just went out and was actually able to get the Regent in my Tahoe in the pass. outboard caption chair using SBP, recline bar & tt. I got a good install but I am very worried about the placement of my recline bar. I can get it in in either 2 spots. One it is sitting right on top of the lower anchors or the other is right in the seat bit.

But, No I can NOT get my MA installed in dh truck in the driver outboard or center not matter what I do. The center is a lap belt only but that long belt stalk and going under the LATCH bar I can't even get it simi tight. I am talking 5-6" side to side movement. In the outboard I can get it in tight but the belt buckle tongue is sitting right on the LATCH bar. This is with 3 full twists. It's that dang LATCH bar that is the issue.

I have pictures of the Regent in my truck to get your opinion on recline bar placements. Give me a few minutes to get them uploaded & posted.

[arly1983]

Totally pi$$ed!

Except I feel really sorry for Jenny because I have 3 lbs in which to decide on a replacement and I am going to be able to use my Regent in my van with the new installation.

"They gave me the run-around when I asked these questions, just kept repeating that kids have been safe the last 2 years because it still meets the standard"

"But aren't federal standards only for seats up to 65 pounds? So essentially, Britax just assures us that the seat performs fine for kids over that weight, but we don't know for sure?"

How can they be saying it meets "standards" when there aren't any?

I am, ummmm, thinking very interesting thoughts....

[tumblebug]

If you haven't recieved written notification from britax about the change then how are they to say you weren't using the seat correctly to void the warranty? If you are going by the manual instructions until you are notified by writing that it has been changed I personally would keep doing what I've been doing. It's all on britax for now and until they personally give you the recall/changed instructions what else are you to do?

[arly1983]

If you haven't recieved written notification from britax about the change then how are they to say you weren't using the seat correctly to void the warranty? If you are going by the manual instructions until you are notified by writing that it has been changed I personally would keep doing what I've been doing. It's all on britax for now and until they personally give you the recall/changed instructions what else are you to do?

Until the product update kit is received, consumers should take the following action to
ensure their Regent is installed properly for enhanced performance:
Installation Method
Child’s
Weight LATCH Lap-Shoulder Belt Lap Belt
22 – 40 lbs Until update kit with new
LATCH connector is
received, use the
alternative long beltrouting
method of
installation for either lapshoulder
belt or lap-belt.
Use long belt-routing
method of
installation. Top
tether recommended
and recline bar
required.
Use long belt-routing
method of installation.
Top tether
recommended and
recline bar required.
40 – 80 lbs Use LATCH in short beltrouting
installation. Top
tether is recommended
and recline bar is
required between
40 – 50 lbs. Top tether
and recline bar are
required over 50 lbs.
Always check your
vehicle manufacturers’
guidelines for maximum
LATCH anchor weight
limits.
Use short belt-routing
installation method.
Top tether and
recline bar required.
Use short belt-routing
installation method.
Top tether is
recommended and
recline bar is required
between
40 – 50 lbs. Top tether
and recline bar are
required over 50 lbs.
The current LATCH connector is acceptable for use in the short belt-routing installation
for children weighing 40 to 80 pounds, however the length of the connector will not
allow for the long belt-routing LATCH installation for children weighing 22 to 40 pounds.
Until the longer LATCH connector is received with the product update kit, consumers
are advised to use the long belt-routing method using either the vehicle lap-shoulder
belt or vehicle lap-belt for enhanced performance.
Instructions for the long and short belt-routing methods can be found with this letter and
on www.BritaxUSA.com.
Please feel free to contact Britax Consumer Service, 1-888-427-4829, if you need further
assistance.
Sincerely,
Britax Child Safety, Inc.

[tumblebug]

:mad: bah that's lame!

[jen_nah]

If you haven't recieved written notification from britax about the change then how are they to say you weren't using the seat correctly to void the warranty? If you are going by the manual instructions until you are notified by writing that it has been changed I personally would keep doing what I've been doing. It's all on britax for now and until they personally give you the recall/changed instructions what else are you to do?

While true but I am still going to be faced with these issues either now or in a couple weeks. So, It really doesn't change the situation I am in. I have 2 children that are over the 40lb weight limit and a vehicle that is no incompatible with 2 of my Britax seats and now I am being forced to put my almost 6yr old, 44lb & 44" daugther that I feel is not ready for a booster in one. To me this is not a fair to have to put one of my children in a less protected seat b/c Britax just all of the sudden 2yr later decide it's time to change the manual and retro all the Regents. If I had known this I would have NEVER bought a Regent. I would have hunted down a Husky since there were some still available when I bought my Regent last year.

[Jeanum]

P*SSED is not strong enough a word, Jen_nah, I feel your pain. I spent a half hour fiddling in the heat with the Regent in the third row center in our '05 Sienna this evening, trying to get as rock solid a short belt path seatbelt installation as I had with the long belt path seatbelt installation. It's almost as rock solid, but the female buckle stalk is practically through the belt path opening even when I twist the stalk the maximum 3 times. :( :thumbsdown: I'm concerned it would be very easy to accidentally unlatch the seatbelt when DD1 climbs in and out of her seat or possibly drops a story book through the belt path opening onto the buckle, grrrr. I haven't tried a second row installation or third row outboard installation yet because the heat was really getting to me even with a cold gatorade. :o The buckle stalks in the second row and third row passenger side are different from the third row center. They're metal instead of twistable webbing. Maybe the stiffer buckle stalks will make a difference, maybe not. I'm ticked, to say the least, and strongly inclined to consider other options (not that there are many harnessed alternatives for a long torsoed 45+ lb. 5 year old), or to reinstall the Regent with the long belt path exactly the way it was before.

[MySillyKids]

"Until the longer LATCH connector is received with the product update kit, consumers
are advised to use the long belt-routing method using either the vehicle lap-shoulder
belt or vehicle lap-belt for enhanced performance."

So that means, i have to go out and uninstall my seat, and re-install with the LBP?

[oxeye]

I am SCREWED all around. I just went out and was actually able to get the Regent in my Tahoe in the pass. outboard caption chair using SBP, recline bar & tt. I got a good install but I am very worried about the placement of my recline bar. I can get it in in either 2 spots. One it is sitting right on top of the lower anchors or the other is right in the seat bit.

But, No I can NOT get my MA installed in dh truck in the driver outboard or center not matter what I do. The center is a lap belt only but that long belt stalk and going under the LATCH bar I can't even get it simi tight. I am talking 5-6" side to side movement. In the outboard I can get it in tight but the belt buckle tongue is sitting right on the LATCH bar. This is with 3 full twists. It's that dang LATCH bar that is the issue.

I have pictures of the Regent in my truck to get your opinion on recline bar placements. Give me a few minutes to get them uploaded & posted.

Might be wishful thinking but I wonder if you explained the situation to someone there and the fact that it is their stupid new rules creating this situation - if they would replace your Marathon with a Decathlon? It wouldn't have the LATCH bar in the way on it.

I wish I still had my DC. I'd trade it with you. :(

[oxeye]

"Until the longer LATCH connector is received with the product update kit, consumers
are advised to use the long belt-routing method using either the vehicle lap-shoulder
belt or vehicle lap-belt for enhanced performance."

So that means, i have to go out and uninstall my seat, and re-install with the LBP?

Same here. :( Guess I know what I'll be doing tonight when it is cooler.

[jen_nah]

P*SSED is not strong enough a word, Jen_nah, I feel your pain. I spent a half hour fiddling in the heat with the Regent in the third row center in our '05 Sienna this evening, trying to get as rock solid a short belt path seatbelt installation as I had with the long belt path seatbelt installation. It's almost as rock solid, but the female buckle stalk is practically through the belt path opening even when I twist the stalk the maximum 3 times. :( :thumbsdown: I'm concerned it would be very easy to accidentally unlatch the seatbelt when DD1 climbs in and out of her seat or possibly drops a story book through the belt path opening onto the buckle, grrrr. I haven't tried a second row installation or third row outboard installation yet because the heat was really getting to me even with a cold gatorade. :o The buckle stalks in the second row and third row passenger side are different from the third row center. They're metal instead of twistable webbing. Maybe the stiffer buckle stalks will make a difference, maybe not. I'm ticked, to say the least, and strongly inclined to consider other options (not that there are many harnessed alternatives for a long torsoed 45+ lb. 5 year old), or to reinstall the Regent with the long belt path exactly the way it was before.

I guess our only options right now is the SafeGuard but many that will be a hit on the pocket book. But, I am not sure it will work in dh truck. I am going to go out and try the Regent in the center with the lapbelt only in the center & maybe I can get the MA pass outboard. This is my last option in his vehicle.

It's not like we can be with out carseats in this vehicle. This is our travel vehicle. We take our truck on all vacations as we have a 5th wheel trailer. Plus it is paid off and we are not wanting to replace it for another 4yrs as we don't want 2 vehicle payments.

[jen_nah]

Might be wishful thinking but I wonder if you explained the situation to someone there and the fact that it is their stupid new rules creating this situation - if they would replace your Marathon with a Decathlon? It wouldn't have the LATCH bar in the way on it.

I wish I still had my DC. I'd trade it with you. :(

You know that might be an option. I wish I knew someone with a DC that I could try before I asked them to do this. But, If they are willing to do so they will not be getting my beloved Zebra MA cover. I will send it back with the ugly Racer cover that came with it.

[Morganthe]

Has anyone asked the obvious question to Britax yet?


What do owners do if the seat cannot be securely installed by these new recommended methods?

What are the options? There has to be something.
Either that, or Britax is going to have serious credibility & anger issues resulting from this.

[scatterbunny]

They told Papooses it was a parental decision to use the LBP, that it tested "fine", but the SBP tested better. However, that brings up all sorts of issues, because at seat checks we techs have to go by what the manual (new manual being sent out) says; we can't just hear, "oh, a Britax CS rep told me over the phone this way was fine" and go ahead and do that.

[ZephyrBlue]

I agree, Britax HAS to have a solution ready at hand for those people who cannot get a good install with the new instructions. Surely they know that they cannot change the installation details and just say, "There ya go, hope it works out for ya" :rolleyes: Not for a $280 seat. No way.

[2bugsmom]

Just wanted to post and say how sorry i am for your situation. I am wanting to get a regent for my 5 year old, but checked local Babies R us stores and none of them had a new manufacture date. So even if I bought I would be stuck waiting on a "kit".

If you have any luck fighting with Britax please post an update. I am very curious as to how they will handle issues like yours.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Has anyone asked the obvious question to Britax yet?


What do owners do if the seat cannot be securely installed by these new recommended methods?

What are the options? There has to be something.
Either that, or Britax is going to have serious credibility & anger issues resulting from this.

Yes, this is why I am waiting for a call back from a supervisor. This makes these seats incompatible with all vehicles except my Dad's truck. My rep on the phone suggested I just drive that. :eek:

I laughed at her and said "I really don't think my Dad is going to want to give up his new $30,000 truck and drive my POS mininvan just so I can correctly install the carseats he didn't think I should have bought in the first place! It isn't his responsibility. I did my research before buying these seats to make sure they would work in my vehicle. If Britax changes the rules a year later that is not my fault. I can not afford to replace these seats and I'm not using them against Britax's instructions so someone needs to tell me what I am supposed to do with them!"

Yes I was slightly pissed by then. Just drive my Dad's truck! No, I bought these seats to work in my VAN. That is why I made sure they fit in my VAN. With LATCH short belt path because that was the only acceptable way to install them in there.

Now they say I have to use the long belt path to 40lbs. That's great, but I CAN'T. What do I use in the meantime? Until 40lbs? I could use these seats from 40-48lbs but then I still wouldn't have seats.

I am SERIOUSLY pissed and they need to do something to make this right.

[oxeye]

Yes, this is why I am waiting for a call back from a supervisor. This makes these seats incompatible with all vehicles except my Dad's truck. My rep on the phone suggested I just drive that. :eek:


Were you talking to Dawn by any chance? :rolleyes: I only talked to her once. If I ever call and get her again I'll ask to be put back on hold so I can speak to someone else.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

I actually talked to 2 different people. Both were not English... I'm not sure where they were from but they both had accents. The first one was pretty nice but made me describe in detail why they wouldn't work. Then she didn't know what I was talking about! And told me to just drive the vehicle they worked in. But I don't think either of them were Dawn. :) The second time I called to see if the supervisor was available yet. That's the one that suggested if I was worried about my kid's safety I should just trade vehicles with my Dad.

No thanks how about you guys send me Boulevards or Marathons to replace the seats that now won't work in my vehicle since it's their fault it won't work!

But we'll see. I'm not happy and I think they know that.

[jen_nah]

Were you talking to Dawn by any chance? :rolleyes: I only talked to her once. If I ever call and get her again I'll ask to be put back on hold so I can speak to someone else.

Oh see they will NOT be getting my rear off the phone with them until I speak to a supervisor or engineer PERIOD. I will tie up that dang line all day if I have too. This is acceptable for them to wait almost 2 YEARS to fix this issue.

I went out and tried the Regent in the center position of dh truck using the SBP with lapbelt only. NOPE can't get a good install at all. I get a little over an inch side to side movement. I may try to get dh to help me next time. Maybe his muscles will be able to get it tighter then I can. But, At least the Regent & MA will work side by side in his truck.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Supervisor was in a meeting otherwise that is what I would have done. But my cell phone would have died waiting on hold. I'm not getting off the phone tomorrow though because I am sure there will be more people calling and I need to get them before everyone else starts calling.

[arly1983]

Well, I am going to sit on my hands and let yall do all the calling......

It is official, Regent SBP/recline bar will not go into DH's truck :( So I will be looking for something else as we only have 3 lbs to go....

[jen_nah]

Well, I am going to sit on my hands and let yall do all the calling......

It is official, Regent SBP/recline bar will not go into DH's truck :( So I will be looking for something else as we only have 3 lbs to go....

What kinda truck does your dh have?

[arly1983]

98 Ford F-150 (not extended cab) He is the only one who can pick Jackson up from preschool....

ETA: He has long, forward of the bight stalks with a plastic casing around them and the regent went in LBP like a dream and the SBP like a nightmare....

[ukfan78]

No such luck here either! I am kinda screwed too. I can't get an acceptable install in the captains chair of my 2007 Tahoe after trying all evening. I got it to about 2" of movement or maybe a little less, but I am not comfortable with that when it is ROCK solid LBP and recline bar right now. My ds (almost 7) is 47.8lbs with clothes and shoes on so I can't use latch either. AND he is in the top slots of the Regent so no other seats are going to work for us really. I am comfortable with moving him to a booster now, but he doesn't want to! And I just can't find any local boosters that he likes. It is so frustrating to be rushed out of our "nice safe seat" instead of being able to use it until we are ready to switch over. My ds has probably another year of growth in this seat and I was going to use it until he outgrew it, although I was planning on getting a booster soon to use here and there (he has never been in a booster!) I am going to continue to use this install (LBP, recline bar, tethered) until I can get him a booster because it is my only option. Hopefully I can find a Compass or Recaro booster locally or I will have to wait for an online order :(

Needless to say I am no longer a huge Britax fan....and to make matters worse, my sisters MA base will STILL not lock in the upright position!

SIGH SIGH SIGH

Melissa

[LuvBug03]

one of the first questions I asked when I called back a second time was "have you ever seen a husky in person" then it was "have you ever seen a regent in person" and then once she said yes to both I knew she wouldnt be so completely confused by what I was about to ask lol!

I didnt get to talk long or ask all the questions I wanted because I had stuff to do. I cant call back tomorrow because again I have stuff to do lol! so I will have to let you all harass them for me :p

[CandCfam]

I'm so sorry for everyone that is dealing with this.
:(

Britax is going to be out a LOT of $$$ with this one. Either in refunds or in law suits.:twocents:

[jen_nah]

No such luck here either! I am kinda screwed too. I can't get an acceptable install in the captains chair of my 2007 Tahoe after trying all evening. I got it to about 2" of movement or maybe a little less, but I am not comfortable with that when it is ROCK solid LBP and recline bar right now. My ds (almost 7) is 47.8lbs with clothes and shoes on so I can't use latch either. AND he is in the top slots of the Regent so no other seats are going to work for us really. I am comfortable with moving him to a booster now, but he doesn't want to! And I just can't find any local boosters that he likes. It is so frustrating to be rushed out of our "nice safe seat" instead of being able to use it until we are ready to switch over. My ds has probably another year of growth in this seat and I was going to use it until he outgrew it, although I was planning on getting a booster soon to use here and there (he has never been in a booster!) I am going to continue to use this install (LBP, recline bar, tethered) until I can get him a booster because it is my only option. Hopefully I can find a Compass or Recaro booster locally or I will have to wait for an online order :(

Needless to say I am no longer a huge Britax fan....and to make matters worse, my sisters MA base will STILL not lock in the upright position!

SIGH SIGH SIGH

Melissa

Melissa,

Does you Tahoe have caption chairs in the 2nd row or bench? And, What seating position(s) have you tried? I got mine in my '05 Tahoe rock solid. I have caption chairs in the 2nd row. I did have to use shelf grip liner to help with some slippage. If it is a bench try the pass outboard where the fixed belt stalk is. That is the only position in dh that works with SBP in his Silverado.

[arly1983]

You know, it is almost like having the radian agian.....it would also only install in my van (not DH or MIL's vehicles).....SIGH.....back to the drawing board....

[lynsgirl]

Here I sit with a Regent manufactured last March installed LBP, recline bar & top tethered for my 44lb dd in dh truck. I can NOT for the life of me install this seat in this position using the SBP. The seatbelt stalk is to long even with 3 full twists. I can't move it as I have another Regent in the other outboard position installed with the SBP, recline bar & top tethered for my 42lb dd. So, I have to use SBP on both seat now.

So, Here I sit with a $280 seat that I can no longer use. I am MAD and I mean MAD. I just got off work and of course Britax closes at some stupid A$$ hours. Hello I am CST which means they close right in the middle of my work day. I can't call from work as I am working with patients.

So, Britax is now going to force me to put my petite dd who is about to outgrow her MA into a booster seat. This is beyond STUPID.

:mad: Yes. I just busted my butt out in the van earlier to reinstall the Regent, while the Husky (DOM Mar05) got to sit there with it's ever-so-loverly LBP/no recline bar install :thumbsdown: . I tried to get it rock solid in the third row where it was already residing, but I finally gave up. It was moving less than 1/2 inch and I was going to leave it, until I stepped back to get out of the van and it left dd w/no leg room :mad: AND it was *too* reclined, because of the slope of the seat back there. So I moved ds2's MA back there and I really did not want him in the third row (not for safety reasons, for logistical and sanity reasons). I will have to check how he measures in the MA now, because it reclines more and I'm not sure where that will put his shoulders. Argh. Anyway, back to the idiotic crap I was doing with the Regent with my van on and A/C on high (it was over 100 degrees). I put it in the center of the 2nd row and I did get a rock solid install that was 20 times harder to achieve and took waaay longer. Stupid stupid stupid. :hitselfonhead: And while it's a solid install, I'm not thrilled, because the belt is totally bunched up in the latchplate. Ugh ugh ugh. Not sure what I'll be doing when ds2 grows out of the MA, which may be sooner than I'd like. Maybe move ds1 to a booster finally (he's 10.5) and give ds2 the Husky.

[ukfan78]

Melissa,

Does you Tahoe have caption chairs in the 2nd row or bench? And, What seating position(s) have you tried? I got mine in my '05 Tahoe rock solid. I have caption chairs in the 2nd row. I did have to use shelf grip liner to help with some slippage. If it is a bench try the pass outboard where the fixed belt stalk is. That is the only position in dh that works with SBP in his Silverado.

My Tahoe DOES have captains chairs in the middle row and I have tried both sides. The belt stalks in these seats are just crazy compared to my 2004 Tahoe. They make for some difficult installations, to say the least. I am using the shelf liner and I tried twisting the stalk and STILL no luck. I won't give up that easy and I will be out all day tomorrow trying again. I have installed many seats and have NEVER had this much trouble :( Are the bucket seatbelt stalks the same in the 05 and 07? I know my 04 was different than these. They are a lot longer now.

Melissa

[lynsgirl]

P*SSED is not strong enough a word, Jen_nah, I feel your pain. I spent a half hour fiddling in the heat with the Regent in the third row center in our '05 Sienna this evening, trying to get as rock solid a short belt path seatbelt installation as I had with the long belt path seatbelt installation. It's almost as rock solid, but the female buckle stalk is practically through the belt path opening even when I twist the stalk the maximum 3 times. :( :thumbsdown: I'm concerned it would be very easy to accidentally unlatch the seatbelt when DD1 climbs in and out of her seat or possibly drops a story book through the belt path opening onto the buckle, grrrr. I haven't tried a second row installation or third row outboard installation yet because the heat was really getting to me even with a cold gatorade. :o The buckle stalks in the second row and third row passenger side are different from the third row center. They're metal instead of twistable webbing. Maybe the stiffer buckle stalks will make a difference, maybe not. I'm ticked, to say the least, and strongly inclined to consider other options (not that there are many harnessed alternatives for a long torsoed 45+ lb. 5 year old), or to reinstall the Regent with the long belt path exactly the way it was before.

Oh Jean, do I ever hear you! I was sweating my butt off (yeah right - don't I wish it was comin' off LOL - felt like it anyway) in the third row and dangit - I could just barely get 3 full twists (outboard) and I was ready to punch the window out. I finally just untwisted the buckle and let the stupid thing into the belt path. I did end up putting it in the center of the 2nd row and got better results, but it was blasted insane trying to get it solid, especially when it only takes me 5 minutes or less to do a LBP install. The belt is pretty bunched up in the latchplate, which I am *not* happy about, but there's not much I can do about it at this point, other than to stop using the seat, which I am not ready to do. UNLESS, now that I'm seeing that it's not "unsafe and still passes with the old instructions," which, if this is really true, is making me fume, since I'd like to drag whoever came up with this new stuff outside in the furnace-like heat to come and try to tap-dance this behemoth into my van. :soapbox: Ok, off the soapbox and taking a calm-down chill pill :whistle: :p .

[jen_nah]

My Tahoe DOES have captains chairs in the middle row and I have tried both sides. The belt stalks in these seats are just crazy compared to my 2004 Tahoe. They make for some difficult installations, to say the least. I am using the shelf liner and I tried twisting the stalk and STILL no luck. I won't give up that easy and I will be out all day tomorrow trying again. I have installed many seats and have NEVER had this much trouble :( Are the bucket seatbelt stalks the same in the 05 and 07? I know my 04 was different than these. They are a lot longer now.

Melissa

My belt stalks are fixed and can't be twisted in my 2nd row. You know I will go look at my friends in the morning. She had a brand new '07 Tahoe.

I had to recline the seat then tighten the seatbelt up as tight as I could get it. Then lifted the seat back into the upright position and it was tight (rock solid). The recline bar is down in the seat bite (where the vehicle seat back & bottom meet). Then I hooked the top tether and I was set.

[MagnificentMama]

I am SCREWED all around. I just went out and was actually able to get the Regent in my Tahoe in the pass. outboard caption chair using SBP, recline bar & tt. I got a good install but I am very worried about the placement of my recline bar. I can get it in in either 2 spots. One it is sitting right on top of the lower anchors or the other is right in the seat bit.

I have pictures of the Regent in my truck to get your opinion on recline bar placements. Give me a few minutes to get them uploaded & posted.

n/m my tahoe has a bench, not the captains chairs.

[jen_nah]

Let me go take some pictures for you of my Regent in my Tahoe. It'd be so easier if the fricken head rest detached, but i can get a really good install in my Tahoe too

What year is your Tahoe?

[ukfan78]

Yeah my stalks aren't fixed like they were in my previous truck. They are longer and move quite a bit. And the recline bar sits about 3 inches above the "bite" of the seat. Sounds like they changed them :( I am still going to fiddle with it some more tomorrow. However, when I try the SBP, the seat belt gets all bunched up in the seatbelt latch and I don't see how this can be safe. I am just so frustrated right now. I think I will feel better about my ds riding in a booster than riding in this seat now (if I can't use LBP). We just don't KNOW what is really happening here. And we will probably never know the real reason behind this change. I don't like to feel all this doubt when I buckle my ds in his seat. Luckily he is now old/big enough for a booster. Now if we can just find one he likes!

Melissa

[MagnificentMama]

What year is your Tahoe?

2003. But it's a bench seat, I don't have the captains chairs. And my stalk is super short so I don't have to twist anything.

[jen_nah]

Yeah my stalks aren't fixed like they were in my previous truck. They are longer and move quite a bit. And the recline bar sits about 3 inches above the "bite" of the seat. Sounds like they changed them :( I am still going to fiddle with it some more tomorrow. However, when I try the SBP, the seat belt gets all bunched up in the seatbelt latch and I don't see how this can be safe. I am just so frustrated right now. I think I will feel better about my ds riding in a booster than riding in this seat now (if I can't use LBP). We just don't KNOW what is really happening here. And we will probably never know the real reason behind this change. I don't like to feel all this doubt when I buckle my ds in his seat. Luckily he is now old/big enough for a booster. Now if we can just find one he likes!

Melissa

Can you post some pictures of the bunching?

[ukfan78]

I will take some tomorrow when I get out to work on it :)


Melissa

[UlrikeDG]

Supervisor was in a meeting otherwise that is what I would have done.

:rolleyes: Any time anyone asks to talk to a supervisor or another rep, that person is "in a meeting." Now, supervisors might have meetings, but phone reps? Not so much.

[hsjwmom]

However, when I try the SBP, the seat belt gets all bunched up in the seatbelt latch and I don't see how this can be safe.


I had a similar problem when I tried putting it in my Sienna 2nd row captains chair. The seatbelt would get folded and try to twist all the way in the sliding part of the buckle. I tried installing it SBP twice and I had to fix the seatbelt both times after taking it out. I'll try again tomorrow, I guess. I don't want to make poor dd sit in the 3rd row all by herself yet :( Plus, I have no idea if I can get the SBP to work in the 3rd row anyway.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Well if the supervisor doesn't call me back tomorrow I'm going to call and threaten to go to the media. I don't have a week of using spare seats here. I don't have spare seats. I need to know what I am supposed to do, and what I can safely do.

I don't think it would be that difficult for a few of us to go to the media and cause a huge stink. I just want them to tell me what to do, I don't think that's too hard.

I figured they were in a meeting about the situation. So I didn't think much of it.

[Defrost]

Even though it didn't wind up affecting us (we have a Husky), I'm still pissed. I have been a huge Britax fan for years, from the first time I installed our brand-new Roundabout rock-the-van-solid, in under a minute, and nearly cried with relief! I feel a bit betrayed; even if it's not affecting me personally, it very well could have, and I'm just completely disgusted with how they are handling this. Every time I suggest a Britax to someone it'll have a "yes, but..." disclaimer added to it.

[Patriot201]

:rolleyes: Any time anyone asks to talk to a supervisor or another rep, that person is "in a meeting." Now, supervisors might have meetings, but phone reps? Not so much.

LOL. I like the line from Erin Brockovich-- When IS he in the office? :)

[Morganthe]

Well if the supervisor doesn't call me back tomorrow I'm going to call and threaten to go to the media. I don't have a week of using spare seats here. I don't have spare seats. I need to know what I am supposed to do, and what I can safely do.

I don't think it would be that difficult for a few of us to go to the media and cause a huge stink. I just want them to tell me what to do, I don't think that's too hard.

I figured they were in a meeting about the situation. So I didn't think much of it.

LOL, I've been thinking the same thing. I'd sic something like 60 Minutes or Nightline on them to get REAL answers. National morning and evening news are only looking for quick soundbites. I want a 15 minute spot on the issue!

I've also thought of contacting large Regent purchasers like the Kyle Miller Foundation to get involved in this too. They're going to become affected by this too.

I have 2 simple questions for Britax when I really think of it.
1 -- WHAT are the ramifications of NOT using the Recline bar vs. using it in test situations?

2-- What are the exact differences in results in the whole LBP & SBP weight classes?

Unfortunately, I believe that the gatekeepers on the phone will be the only ones available for a long time. Anyone over their heads will be 'in a meeting, out of the office, or unable to take your call". COWARDS! :mad:

later edit: Well, I'm pleasantly surprised. Almost No wait time on hold at Britax. Susan passed me along to the "Advisory Rep" Victor. He is checking with his 'superiors' about the fact the recline bar pushes the Regent (IMO) dangerously forward and that there's no way I can install with the Short Belt path after dd reaches 40lbs. Both took down my vehicle make/model/year, so somewhere someone is telling them to record problems now. He says he'll call back as soon as possible. They know I have a Regent on order and I'm not a happy customer....

He's on the phone with me again and wow -- the doublespeak!

[arly1983]

The more I think about this the more.....sad, betrayed?...I feel...not sure....

Oh, GOD, I am kicking myself for selling J's MA. I knew there was a reason I felt clammy when I sold it...

Well, no matter what brand I get next, I am never buying more than one of the same seat ever again!

[nurse_reedle]

I talked to Britax today and am waiting on a call back. I am being told that if we can't use our seats, then we have to take it up with the seller to get our money back and shipping charges to return it. That Britax is not responsible. I also requested info on the testing and WHY they are changing and WHY if it is an "enhancement" is it being required and the new manual saying this is a MUST. I was also told that we are supposed to leave our carseat installed as is until we get the kit....um.....then why do I need to change it then? What will make it safe today and suddenly not in 10 days?????? I am so mad! We have had this seat for 20 days!! That is it! And now itmight be useless to us today. We are going to try the different install methods today and see what we get. We will probably try and return our seat. :mad:

[jen_nah]

I talked to Britax today and am waiting on a call back. I am being told that if we can't use our seats, then we have to take it up with the seller to get our money back and shipping charges to return it. That Britax is not responsible. I also requested info on the testing and WHY they are changing and WHY if it is an "enhancement" is it being required and the new manual saying this is a MUST. I was also told that we are supposed to leave our carseat installed as is until we get the kit....um.....then why do I need to change it then? What will make it safe today and suddenly not in 10 days?????? I am so mad! We have had this seat for 20 days!! That is it! And now itmight be useless to us today. We are going to try the different install methods today and see what we get. We will probably try and return our seat. :mad:

That is unacceptable!

I am on hold with Victor right now. So, We will see.

He just tried to do the "call back" crap and told him. I will not be getting off the phone. I am back on hold waiting a supervisor.

Now waiting for supervisor Michelle.

[papooses]

1 -- WHAT are the ramifications of NOT using the Recline bar vs. using it in test situations?

2-- What are the exact differences in results in the whole LBP & SBP weight classes?

I was told they will not be releasing this information. :thumbsdown:

[arly1983]

I was told they will not be releasing this information. :thumbsdown:

Your kidding me!!!

[arly1983]

I talked to Britax today and am waiting on a call back. I am being told that if we can't use our seats, then we have to take it up with the seller to get our money back and shipping charges to return it. That Britax is not responsible. I also requested info on the testing and WHY they are changing and WHY if it is an "enhancement" is it being required and the new manual saying this is a MUST. I was also told that we are supposed to leave our carseat installed as is until we get the kit....um.....then why do I need to change it then? What will make it safe today and suddenly not in 10 days?????? I am so mad! We have had this seat for 20 days!! That is it! And now itmight be useless to us today. We are going to try the different install methods today and see what we get. We will probably try and return our seat. :mad:


So does that mean, I need to call dreamtimebaby since that is where I go my seat in APRIL.....oh, crap....I bet dreamtimebaby is not going to have a clue!:(

[jen_nah]

NOW I AM PISSED!

I told Victor I wanted to speak to a supervisor. He said he was transferring me to a supervisor Michelle. He transfer me to her F*'ing voice mail. I left a message. But, Now I am more fuming. I am now AGAIN back on forever hold with Britax.

I am going to be battling this all day. When I really need to go get the huge bolt removed from my tire instead.

[papooses]

I wish.

I asked why & got the run around about it being merely an "enhancement" so there's no need in their eyes @@

I'm still thinking: "what about my Husky?" Why doesn't it need this enhancement? Or do none of them need this at all!

[Morganthe]

I talked to Britax today and am waiting on a call back. I am being told that if we can't use our seats, then we have to take it up with the seller to get our money back and shipping charges to return it. That Britax is not responsible. I also requested info on the testing and WHY they are changing and WHY if it is an "enhancement" is it being required and the new manual saying this is a MUST. I was also told that we are supposed to leave our carseat installed as is until we get the kit....um.....then why do I need to change it then? What will make it safe today and suddenly not in 10 days?????? I am so mad! We have had this seat for 20 days!! That is it! And now itmight be useless to us today. We are going to try the different install methods today and see what we get. We will probably try and return our seat. :mad:

Same here -- I"m waiting on a callback from Victor's supervisor, Michelle now. . I made it 3rd up the food chain. I guess I was too persistent with Victor. :thumbsup: Here are my points of argument:

1 -- I went out of my way to test vehicle compatibility 3 weeks ago with a Regent. No way other than recline bar/lbp works in my Camry. I even called them on Thursday to see if anything would change for pre-June models.

2 -- It's not a safety, but an ENHANCEMENT issue.

3 -- Mandatory Recline bar and Installation authorizations, but they're telling me that as a Parent, I can use discretion and still install it in the old way because of Vehicle incompatibility.

4 -- NO LETTER OF AUTHORIZATION will be sent stating that fact by Britax! So I'm SOL for insurance and police and their liability for proof.

5-- Any shipping reimbursement must be sought from the retailer (even though its not their fault the rules changed).

6-- The old way is still safe, but there are no statistics to back up the "enhanced is better than before" claim. They are not available at this time.

7 -- These new techniques have been developed after looking at various vehicle testing through the years. Not overnight.


It was a rather interesting callback since everytime I asked a question, he had to go ask his supervisor :rolleyes: When I asked him how he'd feel about the legal doublespeak if he were in my situation, he sympathized and then said that his supervisor would be calling me back. I'm looking forward to it :cool:

[Morganthe]

I am going to be battling this all day. When I really need to go get the huge bolt removed from my tire instead.

YIKES! That can't be good :( :(

LOL -- We keep naming names... we'll have the whole infrastructure of the Customer Rep dept ;)

Whoever gets to talk to Michelle first, post please :D

[singingpond]

I was told they will not be releasing this information. :thumbsdown:

That s**cks!! Makes it very difficult to make that parental decision they are suggesting, when they tell people the old install instructions still meet standards, but the new instructions lead to 'enhanced' safety. I don't even own a Regent (we do have a Wizard and a Parkway), and I'm feeling upset about this. Hopefully the higher-ups at Britax will realize soon what a PR disaster this potentially can be for them, if they don't do better by those Regent owners who cannot use their seats in accordance with the new instructions. Releasing the information would be one way to do better and to make customers less angry -- unless the performance for the old install instructions is SO much worse that they are worried about liability claims??

Katrin

[jen_nah]

Now just spoke to Vashti (sp?) and again on hold trying to speak to a supervisor or higher up.

UPDATE:

I FINALLY spoke to Michelle and told her our issue. But, I first told her I was a tech so she couldn't try to do the whole it's a parental decision crap. Anyways she is taking my issue to upper management and told me she will call me back hopefully by the end of today but if not tomorrow. You but her rear I will be calling before the end of business tomorrow if I haven't heard from before then.

[supercrunch]

Maybe we all need to start filing with the NHTSA like we did with the Radian fraying issue.

People started filing and all of a sudden new seats with different buckle tongs were being shipped left and right.

[arly1983]

This defiantly a milano moment (cookie, anyone?)

I am on hold as well, with the company I bought the regent from....poor things......Britax pulls a fast one and they are stuck holding the bag....

[arly1983]

Ok, Little Folks, where I bought my regent, has recieved the advisory but was not aware that they would be responsable for any "compensation" should a problem arise so they got my name and number and are calling their Britax representive to find out whats going on and who is responsable.

I think the $hit is about to hit the fan...

Everybody start calling the compnaies you bought your seat from and let them call Britax and see what they say then...

[Morganthe]

This defiantly a milano moment (cookie, anyone?)

I am on hold as well, with the company I bought the regent from....poor things......Britax pulls a fast one and they are stuck holding the bag....

I'm holding off on calling the retailer until Britax realizes what they have done! I wouldn't be surprised if they're in shock at what has happened within 2 days. Wait until this hits the General Public. How many Regents have been sold in the past 3 years???? :eek:

I wonder if they'll retract, explain, or adjust? Something will have to be done though. So I'm just going to wait and contact Britax daily :D :cool:

[LuvBug03]

if enough of us call and act informed and keep our heads on straight and explain how difficult it is for us and how much harder it will be for someone new to the seat... maybe we can get them to DO something about what they have done! lol!

And is there anything we can report to the NHTSA? I know the conflicts in the manual we can...

[jen_nah]

Ok, Little Folks, where I bought my regent, has recieved the advisory but was not aware that they would be responsable for any "compensation" should a problem arise so they got my name and number and are calling their Britax representive to find out whats going on and who is responsable.

I think the $hit is about to hit the fan...

Everybody start calling the compnaies you bought your seat from and let them call Britax and see what they say then...

My problem is the new Regent I just bought from USA Baby that I am sure I could return. Well I traded that Sahara cover for a Cougar cover. So, I don't have the orginal cover anymore. So, Of course they won't take it back as it's not what they orginally sold me.

Then my orginal Regent that still has the orginal Onyx cover well I bought that frol Albee Baby over a year ago. They won't take an over year old seat back now.

[arly1983]

I think the retailers should know that Britax is saying they are responsable for the people with unusable regents now. I feel like the retailers hold more sway than i do.

[arly1983]

My problem is the new Regent I just bought from USA Baby that I am sure I could return. Well I traded that Sahara cover for a Cougar cover. So, I don't have the orginal cover anymore. So, Of course they won't take it back as it's not what they orginally sold me.

Then my orginal Regent that still has the orginal Onyx cover well I bought that frol Albee Baby over a year ago. They won't take an over year old seat back now.

Jenny, if it comes to that, We can just do a cover switcharoo back...

[LuvBug03]

I agree that the retailers should know that britax is saying they should refund all seats that dont work...
how is that suppose to work on older used seats? the ones from november of 05 ?????
That is just rediculous...

[MySillyKids]

I'm completely shocked at how horribly Britax is being about this. There is NO WAY that MOST of us can 'return' the seat. and BRITAX KNOWS THAT!

Shame on them!

[LuvBug03]

they now have a "press 9 if you are calling about the stupid mess they have decided to create" lol!
Im on hold with victor I believe... who is "trying to do it on his seat that he has right here". I guess they have set up a team with seats and benches lol!

[Mama2J]

Yes I was slightly pissed by then. Just drive my Dad's truck! No, I bought these seats to work in my VAN. That is why I made sure they fit in my VAN. With LATCH short belt path because that was the only acceptable way to install them in there.

Now they say I have to use the long belt path to 40lbs. That's great, but I CAN'T. What do I use in the meantime? Until 40lbs? I could use these seats from 40-48lbs but then I still wouldn't have seats.


That is completely ridiculous that they would suggest you drive your dad's truck!

From what I understand, they will be sending a longer LATCH strap for us to use until 40 pounds, to install it Long Path LATCH.

[arly1983]

From what I understand, they will be sending a longer LATCH strap for us to use until 40 pounds, to install it Long Path LATCH.

But only up to 40 lbs then you must use short belt path latch, confusing, huh?

[MySillyKids]

That is completely ridiculous that they would suggest you drive your dad's truck!

From what I understand, they will be sending a longer LATCH strap for us to use until 40 pounds, to install it Long Path LATCH.

I don't think she has LATCH, and thats why she's complaining! .. I agree...


I bet you, that they CAN get their regents, and their recline bars, in their office seats, JUST FINE.. You know thats how it going to work! GRR on them!

[supercrunch]

All of this under 40 lbs vs over 40 lbs is driving me insane.

My dd weighs 39.5 lbs...so even if I can get one of the new install methods to work now, I have to mess with it all over again in .5 lbs



I agree that they will claim that they tried it in their mock-seats with the new install methods and the recline bar and it works...but every car is sooo different, and an install that they deem "acceptable" may not be so in our eyes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/grace474/banghead.gif

[Mama2J]

Yes it's all a bit confusing that they keep changing the install methods. I looked at both the Husky and Regent covers I have this morning.

Apparently the Husky allowed only 3 installs: LATCH, LBP lap/shoulder, and LBP lap. Recline bar optional in all cases.

Then Regent introduced SBP that could be used for lap/shoulder or lap only, making 4 installs, and recline bar required for short installs.

Now we will have 6 different install methods, which are restricted to weight of child, and recline bar always used.

Sorry if this has all been discussed already, but I want to clarify that I have it right.

[scatterbunny]

Even though it didn't wind up affecting us (we have a Husky), I'm still pissed. I have been a huge Britax fan for years, from the first time I installed our brand-new Roundabout rock-the-van-solid, in under a minute, and nearly cried with relief! I feel a bit betrayed; even if it's not affecting me personally, it very well could have, and I'm just completely disgusted with how they are handling this. Every time I suggest a Britax to someone it'll have a "yes, but..." disclaimer added to it.

I totally agree. :( The Husky was the first Britax seat I owned, since then I've owned a Laptop and a Parkway, and a second Husky, and I've always raved about Britax. Sure, they can wishy-washy about manual discrepancies, but nothing has ever been this major. This is huge, IMO.

[scatterbunny]

I was told they will not be releasing this information. :thumbsdown:

I guess they need a reminder that other companies do release important test information to the public? :(

[LuvBug03]

I totally agree. :( The Husky was the first Britax seat I owned, since then I've owned a Laptop and a Parkway, and a second Husky, and I've always raved about Britax. Sure, they can wishy-washy about manual discrepancies, but nothing has ever been this major. This is huge, IMO.

and I keep asking if they tested the husky to see if the "enhancements" would "enhance" the husky's performance... and I keep getting the run around about them not making it anymore, but then I get the run around of we constantly are retesting our products... well which is it? If they dont make it anymore how do they get their hands on uncrashed ones to test?? And then to say that the seats are completely different, but that you cant see it yourself, but take our word they are completely different... so I asked about the regents made before november and they say "they are of a different class" umm what?

[MySillyKids]

I guess they need a reminder that other companies do release important test information to the public? :(

I wonder if they wont release it because of how long they've known, and are JUST now realizing it's wrong..

Who knows, i doubt we ever will, with out some kind of 'action'..

Its defiantly SUPER fishy. You would think that they would want their consumer to know EXACTLY why they are changing it, besides 'enhancement' (which is a load of crap IMO!

[Michi]

I am super Pi $$ed too!!!
I'm mad at myself, too. I debated and debated whether or not to get another MA or get her the Regent a few months ago. I SOOOO wish I would have gone with the MA.

We have disliked the Regent from the start.
Between the twisty straps and now this...It stinks!!! :(

[Morganthe]

if enough of us call and act informed and keep our heads on straight and explain how difficult it is for us and how much harder it will be for someone new to the seat... maybe we can get them to DO something about what they have done! lol!

And is there anything we can report to the NHTSA? I know the conflicts in the manual we can...

I don't know about the NHTSA, but I was thinking about.....
"Non-vehicle compatibility issues" As Britax called it.

Ummm, I have a 99 Toyota Camry. Isn't that one of the top 10 selling cars for the last umpteen years? There's tons of my car out on the road.

I'm sure there's enough of us that can determine the whole N-V CI to fit just about every model of sedans and many Trucks/SUVs/Minivans on the market. So the Regent will immediately be unsuitable to how many millions of potential vehicles?

Scary thought :eek: If I was a company, I'd be very very worried.

[MySillyKids]

I don't know about the NHTSA, but I was thinking about.....
"Non-vehicle compatibility issues" As Britax called it.

Ummm, I have a 99 Toyota Camry. Isn't that one of the top 10 selling cars for the last umpteen years? There's tons of my car out on the road.

I'm sure there's enough of us that can determine the whole N-V CI to fit just about every model of sedans and many Trucks/SUVs/Minivans on the market. So the Regent will immediately be unsuitable to how many millions of potential vehicles?

Scary thought :eek: If I was a company, I'd be very very worried.

They will play that off.

'It works fine here on our bench seat' ....load.

Do they actually test these things IN cars? or is it always on benches?

what about captains chairs?

[arly1983]

I think we are screwed....My DH just read the press releases and he said that the way this is worded and handled that he would willing to bet money that none of us ever get any compensation out of this.....

That as long as it is an advisory and not a recall, they are not admitting any defects to their product...

So therefore they are not liable to compensate anyone and that the new manual and latch strap is from a "we want the safest possible install so we are making it manditory" stand...

They can not compensate a single person or they will have to do the same for everyone....

They have probably advised the retailors not to accept any returns of the regent that are not in compliance to their currant return policies...

They are betting that enough people are not educated enough to know what a properly installed carseat is so therefore will not be upset by the "enhancements"

This is not like the BV tether strap recall where all the tether straps were unsusable past a certain weight limit no matter what vehicle or who used them. "Non-vehicle compatibility issues" are not a provable problem. The seat is still technically usable with the retrofit kits.

And then he went into a spill about "business policies"....

So basically, now I think we are screwed...what does everyone else think?

[MySillyKids]

Time to Sell Arly!

Hmm...

We need to get someone with authority involved. We can all call and complain, but it looks like thats going to do us no good.

(@#$*@#P$(*@#$(*@#4 At britax!

[jen_nah]

Jenny, if it comes to that, We can just do a cover switcharoo back...

I am going to try to get them to replace the MA for a DC. I can get 1 Regent in dh truck with the SBP, recline bar, tt but with the MA the LATCH bar gets in the way. This way I will have 1 Regent & 1 MA in my Tahoe & then 1 Regent & 1 hopefully DC in dh truck. This will work for a few years as Kinlee just moved up to the top slots in the MA this past month. At that point we will just move Kaylee to a booster in dh truck. She will be around 8yrs old then.

[wondering1]

I'd rather have a company with the balls to come out and correct a problem rather than just going on because it will be easier for them. I like the fact that Britax does a ton of testing and re-evaluation rather than just going with minimum federal guidelines.

I would be angry if they change their mind in 3 months after everyone has dealt with the change and say that you can do it the old way again.

These seats sell well on eBay.

[arly1983]

I'd rather have a company with the balls to come out and correct a problem rather than just going on because it will be easier for them. I like the fact that Britax does a ton of testing and re-evaluation rather than just going with minimum federal guidelines.

I would be angry if they change their mind in 3 months after everyone has dealt with the change and say that you can do it the old way again.

These seats sell well on eBay.

But they don't have the balls so far to fix the mess they created

And they haven't corrected a "problem". They say that there is no problem.

[MySillyKids]

I'd rather have a company with the balls to come out and correct a problem rather than just going on because it will be easier for them. I like the fact that Britax does a ton of testing and re-evaluation rather than just going with minimum federal guidelines.

I would be angry if they change their mind in 3 months after everyone has dealt with the change and say that you can do it the old way again.

These seats sell well on eBay.

But the 'correction' is making the seat ALMOST 100% unusable for ALMOST all of us. (minus the thread on successful installs.)

So how is it now 'correct'?

None of us bought the seats under this guide line, and i'm sure pretty much all of us WOULDN'T of bought the seat, because we could of tried them out FIRST. And then realized that it wouldn't work. Kinda like the Radian now. It works for some, and not for others.

I spent 3 hours outside (110-112 degree heat no less) TRYING to get it to work in my van. Its in there, NOT rock solid, like it SHOULD be. but its 'okay i guess'. that's UNACCEPTABLE to me. I want it the way i had it.. ROCK SOLID..


Britax needs to make this RIGHT, by telling us the REASONS for it.


(not trying to get on YOU in particular, but just the reasons why)

[arly1983]

I am just so frustrated with Britax at the moment....I guess I just need to call them.....

[wondering1]

OK so let me understand your point of view. Of course, we all wish that this had not happened. I agree with that. I'm human, we are all human, we make mistakes, we learn, we grow, we improve. So, given the situation, would you rather they just sat on it because it meets government guidelines? Or should they educate their customers with what they've learned?

What if you were the engineer who did the testing and found better results with the new guidelines? Would you eat your hat?

I'm just confused about the angry at Britax part.

[hsjwmom]

If it still passes just fine and it really is just an "enhancement" it shouldn't be MANDATORY to use the new instructions. They could simply have said that it performs better and is RECOMMENDED to install that way. You know, the old "for best results..." By making it mandatory and not explaining the reasoning behind it, it is very suspicious to me. JMHO

[wondering1]

If I was the engineer, I would want nothing less than a mandatory change. That's just me. I've been on the firing line many times and I've demanded excellence. That's why I LIKE Britax.

[jenmann21]

<at seat checks we techs have to go by what the manual (new manual being sent out) says; we can't just hear, "oh, a Britax CS rep told me over the phone this way was fine" and go ahead and do that.>

Jenny, as a new tech, this was my question over on the Delphi board. How are we supposed to help parents who come to a check and can't get a good enough install with the new/revised manual? We can't officially tell them to go against manufacturer instructions, so what do we tell them/show them? :scratcheshead:

[hsjwmom]

OK. Let's say it should be mandatory. What about ALL the people who made sure they could install it in their vehicle when they bought it. They just needed to make sure it could be installed in ONE of the many ways listed. Now what? Basically, Britax is saying "Good luck getting a refund from your retailer! We're just the messenger! :) Have a nice day!"

[arly1983]

But to make these changes, and then leave some of us up the creek without a paddle is unforgivable....

I have $540 worth of carseats that in 3 lbs will be worthless to me.....

$540 DOLLARS I am justifiably upset

[MySillyKids]

OK. Let's say it should be mandatory. What about ALL the people who made sure they could install it in their vehicle when they bought it. They just needed to make sure it could be installed in ONE of the many ways listed. Now what? Basically, Britax is saying "Good luck getting a refund from your retailer! We're just the messenger! :) Have a nice day!"

:yeahthat:

Lame,Lame!

[Defrost]

If the difference in performance is enough to make the change mandatory, then they should do a full-out recall for those who bought the seats with the understanding that they could actually use them in their vehicles.

It's not the change itself that is making everyone so upset, or the fact that the "enhanced performance" is mandatory, it's the fact that without the LBP option for higher-weight kids, the seat is now incompatible with their vehicle. They would never have bought/kept a seat that was incompatible with their vehicle in the first place. They would have either tried the seat in their vehicle, discovered it was incompatible and not shelled out $300 for the seat, or bought it and tried it and returned it within the alloted time because it was incompatible. They no longer have this option!

[wondering1]

OK - again what should they do? Should they go out of business? Should they can the information? Should they compromise their standards?

[MySillyKids]

OK - again what should they do? Should they go out of business? Should they can the information? Should they compromise their standards?

WHY Are you doing this? YOU got sucessful INSTALL in YOUR car. So this really doesnt apply to you.

[wondering1]

My friend has a 1999 Ford Explorer. She is on vacation right now in another state but I don't think we'll be able to get her 60 lbs 4 year old installed properly in the Regent. I've already notified our local Safe Kids person who hadnn't heard about it yet (on Monday). I am taking an active interest in this. I am involved and I will be involved. Answer the question! What do you want Britax to do?

BTW, my friend just got her seat on 3/5/07, so she's had less use out of it than many of us! The belt stalk sits up very high and is rigid, it will not twist from what I remember. Her son is definitely not ready for a booster.

[rlsadc]

OK - again what should they do? Should they go out of business? Should they can the information? Should they compromise their standards?

no...and no..and no again...

but they are taking a very good seat and deeming unusable...and they SHOULD offer refunds or atleast continue to allow the old install...(no one is saying that they dont want safe kids, and all of the info to maintain their safety...theyre saying that all of a sudden their kids who were assumingly perfectly safe, are now in danger because they will be moved to boosters before theyre ready...imagine paying $300 for a POS that lasted you two weeks...id be quite upset as well....

[Morganthe]

My friend has a 1999 Ford Explorer. She is on vacation right now in another state but I don't think we'll be able to get her 60 lbs 4 year old installed properly in the Regent. I've already notified our local Safe Kids person who hadnn't heard about it yet (on Monday). I am taking an active interest in this. I am involved and I will be involved. Answer the question! What do you want Britax to do?

It's very simple.
What I want Britax to do is put in writing what they're saying to us on the telephone via their reps. They need to support their mouthpieces who are telling us that this is 'advisory' and we can use 'parental discretion' to install by the old tried and true methods. I want an official authorization letter supporting their claims that the old manual is safe to use for installation techniques when its impossible to install via the new methods.

Currently, they will not do so. So it won't have a legal basis if it's called into issue.

Shameful practice, imo.

So is my anger clear enough and completely warranted now?

[wondering1]

I want an official authorization letter supporting their claims that the old manual is safe to use for installation techniques when its impossible to install via the new methods.


So let's form a group to pursue this effort. Perhaps Safe Kids and the NHTSA need to be involved in addition to Britax.

I also want more freedom in the weight guidelines. 22-40 lbs for long belt path and 35-80 lbs for short belt path. The hard cut off of 40 lbs is impossible to manage for children who spend 6+ months fluctuating between 39 lbs and 41 lbs.

[MySillyKids]

I just got of the phone with Sara, from Britax. I told her i want a new manual in my hands, ASAP. She said fine, and is over night-ing me one.

I'll sell it from there. (well after i get my 'enhanced' products.)

[scout]

OK - again what should they do? Should they go out of business? Should they can the information? Should they compromise their standards?

No to all. But if they sell something based on one set of rules and then CHANGE those rules, they need to take a better course of action than their current one.

I bought seats from them given the information that was current at that moment. If they change that information and make my $540 worth of seats UNUSABLE to me, then they should take the seats back and reimburse me so I can buy something that is what is is advertised to be: appropriate and safe for MY kids in MY vehicle.

[MySillyKids]

No to all. But if they sell something based on one set of rules and then CHANGE those rules, they need to take a better course of action than their current one.

I bought seats from them given the information that was current at that moment. If they change that information and make my $540 worth of seats UNUSABLE to me, then they should take the seats back and reimburse me so I can buy something that is what is is advertised to be: appropriate and safe for MY kids in MY vehicle.

:yeahthat: Nicely said.

[jen_nah]

OK so let me understand your point of view. Of course, we all wish that this had not happened. I agree with that. I'm human, we are all human, we make mistakes, we learn, we grow, we improve. So, given the situation, would you rather they just sat on it because it meets government guidelines? Or should they educate their customers with what they've learned?

What if you were the engineer who did the testing and found better results with the new guidelines? Would you eat your hat?

I'm just confused about the angry at Britax part.

Sure I want Britax or any manufacture of any producy to make advances in their products. But, They can't do it at the expense of their customers. We aren't talking about a $30 blender here. You don't see automobile manufactures that make an advance in their seatbelts (going from lapbelts to l/s belts) say well we know l/s belts are safer to install carseats with so you can no longer put a carseat in lapbelt positions only. Or they could do that with LATCH.

I am not sure if you are aware that the Regent/Husky/Super Elite/Elite has been on the US market for TEN years. These methods of installation have pretty much been the same for TEN years. So, Why NOW does Britax decide it's not good enough? Why was it good enough 3/5/7/10 yrs ago? Why has Britax KNOWN about this for almost 2 YEARS and is just now changing it?

Sure Britax can verbally tell me all day long that the old method is safe but that won't hold up in court. Why if both ways are safe but one is preferred over the other then why didn't they just put in the manual "perferred" installation? I mean car manufactures do this with where they want you to place the carseats.

I don't know about you but I don't want my children to be Britax crash test dummy. I also don't want to be the one that everyone on here or on any other CPS board is talking about "Going against manufacture guidelines".

So, Yes I am ANGRY and have every right to be angry. I tested these seats out in the vehicle I needed them in before I bought them. I didn't go into this blindly. I bought these seats to PROTECT my children.

My child WILL NOT be Britax crash test dummies. I have already buried 1 child and I will NEVER do that again as long as I am alive. So, Yes, Britax is RESPONDSIBLE for their SCREW UP!

[jen_nah]

<at seat checks we techs have to go by what the manual (new manual being sent out) says; we can't just hear, "oh, a Britax CS rep told me over the phone this way was fine" and go ahead and do that.>

Jenny, as a new tech, this was my question over on the Delphi board. How are we supposed to help parents who come to a check and can't get a good enough install with the new/revised manual? We can't officially tell them to go against manufacturer instructions, so what do we tell them/show them? :scratcheshead:


We have to go with the new manual period. If we can't get it installed per the manual we have to tell them it's incompatible with their vehicle. It SUCKS!

[jen_nah]

OK - again what should they do? Should they go out of business? Should they can the information? Should they compromise their standards?

Britax in the past has replaced seats for parents (ex: Super Elite just a few years ago). Trust me they will not be going out of business over this. But, They do need to compensate those of us that are now out $$$ & a carseat because they choice to change the rules 2yrs into a 6yr seat.

[MySillyKids]

We have to go with the new manual period. If we can't get it installed per the manual we have to tell them it's incompatible with their vehicle. It SUCKS!

Exact reason i asked for a manual STAT. So i can take it to a tech, so they can see if they can do it some why i have no idea.

If not, Off to craigslist land it goes!

[jen_nah]

My friend has a 1999 Ford Explorer. She is on vacation right now in another state but I don't think we'll be able to get her 60 lbs 4 year old installed properly in the Regent. I've already notified our local Safe Kids person who hadnn't heard about it yet (on Monday). I am taking an active interest in this. I am involved and I will be involved. Answer the question! What do you want Britax to do?

BTW, my friend just got her seat on 3/5/07, so she's had less use out of it than many of us! The belt stalk sits up very high and is rigid, it will not twist from what I remember. Her son is definitely not ready for a booster.

Well I am glad you are taking an active interest in this but until you are in HER shoes then don't judge those of us that are already there. You never know your friend might just be a P*SSED as the rest of us. But, You know it's not hitting your pocket book so you won't understand.

Trust me money isn't an issue for me. I can go out and fit all our vehicles plus my mom's with SafeGuard carseats and not blink an eye. But, I choice Britax due to their long history of good quality products. Plus I wanted my children (my petite almost 6yr old) to be in a 5pt harness for as long as I possible could. So, For an 80lbs carseat the Regent was my only option.

[wondering1]

And if I get a different car tomorrow? Will I finally get your permission to participate in this thread?

Excuse me! Let me know when I get the permission card!

In the meantime, let's be proactive and help Britax make excellent choices as they move through this process.

[ukfan78]

OK I have tried all afternoon to get this seat in SBP and it is NOT possible. So I gave Britax a call..........


I spoke with Susan first (very nice) and she transfered me to a supervisor person (started with a V?) who was also very nice. I got my seat registered and then I told her about my problems.....48lbs, can't install SBP.

She took my seat/vehicle information and is giving this information to their problem solving team and I am supposed to get a call back by the end of the week to solve my problem!?!

So I said " And what do you recommend I do in the mean time?"

Her response was they can not tell me it is OK to use the LBP with my 48lb child and I can't use the seat until I hear back from them. If I do use the LBP, I am liable for whatever happens because they told me not to use it.

So basically I can't go anywhere until the call me back! I have no back-up seat at all. The only thing I can do is go to Walmart and get a Turbo to use until I hear something different. I don't want a Turbo as my primary seat though......and there are no local baby stores that carry good boosters like the Recaro's! I HAVE to go out everyday this week and we are going out of town this weekend!!!! WHAT SHOULD I DO???

Get a Turbo to use for now or use LBP???

Melissa
Josh (almost 7, 48lbs, 48")

[wondering1]

Britax Parkway or the Graco Air Booster can be ordered online and shipped quickly. Our Babies R Us (hour drive away) has the Air Booster in stock. Do you have a lap/shoulder belt?

People with older cars and lap only belts do not have the booster as an option :(

[jen_nah]

OK I have tried all afternoon to get this seat in SBP and it is NOT possible. So I gave Britax a call..........


I spoke with Susan first (very nice) and she transfered me to a supervisor person (started with a V?) who was also very nice. I got my seat registered and then I told her about my problems.....48lbs, can't install SBP.

She took my seat/vehicle information and is giving this information to their problem solving team and I am supposed to get a call back by the end of the week to solve my problem!?!

So I said " And what do you recommend I do in the mean time?"

Her response was they can not tell me it is OK to use the LBP with my 48lb child and I can't use the seat until I hear back from them. If I do use the LBP, I am liable for whatever happens because they told me not to use it.

So basically I can't go anywhere until the call me back! I have no back-up seat at all. The only thing I can do is go to Walmart and get a Turbo to use until I hear something different. I don't want a Turbo as my primary seat though......and there are no local baby stores that carry good boosters like the Recaro's! I HAVE to go out everyday this week and we are going out of town this weekend!!!! WHAT SHOULD I DO???

Get a Turbo to use for now or use LBP???

Melissa
Josh (almost 7, 48lbs, 48")

I so wish I had an answer for you. I am so feeling your pain.

[rlsadc]

And if I get a different car tomorrow? Will I finally get your permission to participate in this thread?

Excuse me! Let me know when I get the permission card!

In the meantime, let's be proactive and help Britax make excellent choices as they move through this process.

i just dont think anyone appreciates your advice...its no that they dont want you to participate (nor can they tell you otherwise) but the fact is you come in and ask everyone what they expect, and tell them that they arent doing what they need to do to expect it. its obivious everyone hss spent time on the phone with britax trying to get things worked out and that isnt happening, and then you tell them to spend more time on getting on what they paid for. the fact is they paid for a seat that now doesnt work for them, and they expect compensation. i dont think that telling them that they need to work at getting what they already paid for is helping anyones situation much...

[ukfan78]

Britax Parkway or the Graco Air Booster can be ordered online and shipped quickly. Our Babies R Us (hour drive away) has the Air Booster in stock. Do you have a lap/shoulder belt?

People with older cars and lap only belts do not have the booster as an option :(

I need the seat by tomorrow at 5 so I can't order anything for these trips. I have to get something at Walmart because that is all I have within 1 hour that sells seats. My ds hates the Parkway and dislikes the Air Booster's armrests and seat so those 2 are totally out anyway. I am looking at the Recaro Start, Compass B510, Recaro Sport as a booster, Maxi-Cosi Rodi, and Evenflo Confidence......and NONE are sold local.

So I have 2 choices for NOW (at least until I hear back from Britax) use the LBP that was not recommended or buy a Turbo for now.....

Melissa

[wondering1]

its obivious everyone hss spent time on the phone with britax trying to get things worked out and that isnt happening,

Britax published the recommendations before they had a course of action to handle impossible installs. Where is it shown that Britax isn't trying to work things out?

I've started a very important thread to collect data on which cars cannot successfully use the SBP with the Regent. I've also started a thread on who has a successful install in their vehicle upon the recommendation of a proactive member here. Hard facts will really help put this situation to light.

[Morganthe]

Britax published the recommendations before they had a course of action to handle impossible installs. Where is it shown that Britax isn't trying to work things out?

I've started a very important thread to collect data on which cars cannot successfully use the SBP with the Regent. I've also started a thread on who has a successful install in their vehicle upon the recommendation of a proactive member here. Hard facts will really help put this situation to light.

At this moment, Britax has basically shut down their verbal advice to follow the older manual and is now telling us consumers to not use the seat until further notice if it cannot be installed by the new rules. Which by the way, will be the end of this week. This leaves parents STRANDED and without any options if the Regent is their only seat. IMO, That doesn't really show good faith on attempting to work out issues with Regent owners.

As far as your 'very important threads', well, I choose to disagree with that analysis, or that Hard Facts will help this situation to light for Britax or parents. But if you have faith+ it makes you feel more empowered, then go right ahead and run another thread on the topic.

[jen_nah]

Britax published the recommendations before they had a course of action to handle impossible installs. Where is it shown that Britax isn't trying to work things out?

See that right there is Britax downfall. They should have had their course of action panned out BEFORE they put out the advisory. They KNEW this was going to be an issue but they have no fixes for it at this time. Only time will tell if they are or aren't going to satisfy their customers.

[wondering1]

ukfan, if you have time, look for a local seller on eBay, look for a local seller on Craigslist. Which seat would you prefer to have if it were available locally?

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

That is completely ridiculous that they would suggest you drive your dad's truck!

From what I understand, they will be sending a longer LATCH strap for us to use until 40 pounds, to install it Long Path LATCH.


I can't put them side by side with long belt path LATCH. You wouldn't be able to get them both in securely. Once one is in you couldn't tighten the other one. They are side by side, which is why I had to use LATCH (otherwise one seat unbuckles the other or itself because of my seatbelts.)

The only way to have these seats in my van is with short belt path LATCH. Period.

[hsjwmom]

I don't think I would recommend buying a USED seat! That is putting your child's life in the hands of a perfect stranger. The only way I would be comfortable with it is if I knew the person selling personally and TRUSTED that they aren't lying about it's history so that they can make a quick buck.

[wondering1]

Morganthe, it is important to know when a parent has successfully install a seat the way you'd like to install the seat in the same vehicle. That's why http://www.carseatdata.org is such an important resource.

It is also very helpful to know which seats cannot be installed in which cars. I'm not inventing the wheel here, just trying to get some quick data for parents who are in the middle of this!

[wondering1]

New seats are available from authorized resellers on eBay. I was not advocating buying a used seat. I don't have much experience with Cragislist except for job opportunities.

[Mama2J]

At this moment, Britax has basically shut down their verbal advice to follow the older manual and is now telling us consumers to not use the seat until further notice if it cannot be installed by the new rules. Which by the way, will be the end of this week. This leaves parents STRANDED and without any options if the Regent is their only seat. IMO, That doesn't really show good faith on attempting to work out issues with Regent owners.

Have any consumers been notified yet by Britax about this? I know it is on their web site, but has there actually been anything sent out? I'm just asking because, otherwise they are saying we need to all go out and re-install our seats today, or else not use them? That just does not seem practical to me. I doubt I will have a chance to play with seat installation until the weekend.

[ukfan78]

I won't buy a seat (new or used) from anyone besides a dealer (no Ebay dealers in KY)....unless it came from a known tech. I just don't trust what most people tell me. So I guess I will drive out to Walmart and get a booster until this is all sorted out and HOPEFULLY I can have a nice booster here by next week. I am leaning towards the Recaro Start, but I haven't decided for sure.

Melissa

[UlrikeDG]

I am not sure if you are aware that the Regent/Husky/Super Elite/Elite has been on the US market for TEN years. These methods of installation have pretty much been the same for TEN years.

The Elite was a totally different seat from the Super Elite, which came out in 2001, so the Regent/Husky/Super Elite seat that we're all familiar with has "only" been around for 6 years. However... Those of us who remember when the Super Elite first came out also remember that the seat was originally only installed with the long belt path. Because so many parents had difficulty installing the seat in their vehicles using the LBP, Britax did further testing and decided to allow the short belt path as well. Why is this important to *this* debate? Because Britax knew that their seat had compatibility issues in LBP mode SIX YEARS AGO.

If this were some new, shocking development, I wouldn't be surprised or upset that it was going to take Britax some time to adjust to the realization that their seat doesn't work in some vehicles using the recommended belt path and to find a solution. But, they knew this SIX YEARS AGO. Therefore, they should have been prepared to have parents calling in saying, "But it doesn't fit in my vehicle that way!" and been ready with a solution.

And, yes, if Britax's new "enhancements" make their seat unusable in someone's vehicle, then Britax does have an obligation to replace the seat with one that will work or to refund their customers' money so that the customer can buy a replacement.

[Morganthe]

Have any consumers been notified yet by Britax about this? I know it is on their web site, but has there actually been anything sent out? I'm just asking because, otherwise they are saying we need to all go out and re-install our seats today, or else not use them? That just does not seem practical to me. I doubt I will have a chance to play with seat installation until the weekend.

I"m going off of what they 'just' told UKFan this afternoon.

Honestly, I'd like to know if someone else receives the same info. I was told over and over that "parental discretion" is the ultimate authority :rolleyes:

What I'd like to understand is the difference with the recline bar since the Phone agents are saying one thing, but the paperwork on the site is making the RB dire and dangerous without its installation.

[wondering1]

ukfan, if you let me know what is the biggest town in your area, I will work to find a local retailer who has one of those seats in stock. Evenflo's list is here: http://www.evenflo.com/Homepage/ProductSupport/StoreFinder/tabid/207/Default.aspx Perhaps calling them will help because maybe they can do a zip code lookup.

BTW, I live in a neighboring state, so perhaps I can deliver a seat to you! :-)

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

OK - again what should they do? Should they go out of business? Should they can the information? Should they compromise their standards?

Because of this I now have 2 seats that are installed against Britax's guidelines because that is the ONLY way they can be securely installed in my vehicle.

What should I do? Should I compromise my children's safety? Should I pretend I didn't know about this? Should I compromise MY standards for my kids safety by using the seats against the manufacter's guidelines? Or should I just not put them in seats because I can't use them correctly?!

I want Britax to replace my seats. I bought them after making sure they would work, just like I did when I bought the Boulevards. Now they changed the rules and they won't work, I want them to send me two Boulevards or Marathon's ASAP so that my children will be safe again!

I am a single mother with two kids with special needs. I was lucky to be able to buy these seats in the first place. There is no way I can afford to replace them! A few years ago I could have gone out and bought Safeguards without blinking an eye, but now I can not.

I have several very important Cardiology, Neurology, ect appointments for my kids in the next couple of weeks. What am I supposed to do about those while I'm waiting for Britax to decide what to do? My kids are too big for $40 carseats I could use in the meantime. I would have to go get Radian's or Safeguard's which I can't do. So what is more important? Do I take my children to the Cardiologist in these seats against Britax advice? Or do I miss a vitally important dr's appointment to follow Britax rules?

I want Britax to FIX it. Make it RIGHT. THAT is what I want. They have replaced people seats because of funky harness adjuster's before! They can replace mine because they just made them unuseable.

That is what I want.

Along with many other things that Britax can't control. But they could make my life a lot easier by fixing this.

[UlrikeDG]

1) I've always liked Susan. ;) Can't remember the other reps I've talked to out there, but she made a good impression.

2) I thought they were telling parents not to change things until they received their kits? If yours hasn't arrived yet, aren't you supposed to continue using it as is?

3) I wish Monika were around this week. Seems like she's always got good suggestions for installing Britax seats when it isn't as easy as it usually is.

[Mama2J]

I can't put them side by side with long belt path LATCH. You wouldn't be able to get them both in securely. Once one is in you couldn't tighten the other one. They are side by side, which is why I had to use LATCH (otherwise one seat unbuckles the other or itself because of my seatbelts.)

The only way to have these seats in my van is with short belt path LATCH. Period.

Ok now I understand. I'd be upset too.

[MySillyKids]

2) I thought they were telling parents not to change things until they received their kits? If yours hasn't arrived yet, aren't you supposed to continue using it as is?



Nope. I cant find the correct website right now to back that up. You have to use the LBP, w/ recline bar, if they are under 40lbs, and the SBP w/ recline bar if over.. until the kit comes.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Ok now I understand. I'd be upset too.

Thank you.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Now my Dad and in laws just think I'm nuts and they don't even want me to buy any other seats. They just think I should keep using these and not use any when we travel. Lovely.

[Erika Ruth]

The only comment I have to add is that MOST parents don't pay that much attention.

I am sure a LOT don't bother with registering their carseat, and many won't get the notice. (I know we all do, that is why we are here), but I wonder if Britax sees us, as a group, as the pesky 2% of customers that are hyper sensitive.

I guess, what I am trying to say is, we have a right to be upset, but I wonder how much we are in the vocal minority.

I bet they have the stats on how many seats have been sold vs. how many are registered, and in their past recalls, how many have recived the parts, and even the ones to get them, install them.

I wonder with a notice like this, how many will just go, oh well... We'll just keep doing it the old way, if the new way doesn't work. (Not that that is the answer), but I wonder if it is cheaper and easier for Britax to help/refund the vocal minority without making a sweeping policy.

Just my thoughts, as I see that in "real life" not that many parents pay that much attention to child seats (Not that I support that).

Erika

[ukfan78]

ukfan, if you let me know what is the biggest town in your area, I will work to find a local retailer who has one of those seats in stock. Evenflo's list is here: http://www.evenflo.com/Homepage/ProductSupport/StoreFinder/tabid/207/Default.aspx Perhaps calling them will help because maybe they can do a zip code lookup.

BTW, I live in a neighboring state, so perhaps I can deliver a seat to you! :-)

I am about 30 mins from Florence, KY, which has a BRU. But they only have the Air Booster and Evenflo (bottom of my list).

I am about 45min-1hour from Cincinnati and the stores only carry Britax (NO THANKS), Graco, Evenflo, or Cosco. The Sears in Cincinnati has the Recaro Sport...but not the start. Not sure about the booster part of the Sport compared to the start.....I have called every dealer within an hour with no luck and everyone says they no longer carry Compass for whatever reason. So I don't think you will have any more luck than I have finding the seats I am looking for :) But thanks for the offer.

Melissa

[wondering1]

Grocery stores and little shops carry seats also.

Can the BRU get a different seat delivered to their store tomorrow? Pull inventory from another store?

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Well I just left a very long and hysterical message on Michelle's voicemail after talking to Victor.

I don't know what to do.

[MySillyKids]

I bet they have the stats on how many seats have been sold vs. how many are registered, and in their past recalls, how many have recived the parts, and even the ones to get them, install them.

I wonder with a notice like this, how many will just go, oh well... We'll just keep doing it the old way, if the new way doesn't work. (Not that that is the answer), but I wonder if it is cheaper and easier for Britax to help/refund the vocal minority without making a sweeping policy.


This is why someone needs to be involved, besides 'us'. they need a louder voice. I'm sure their 'list' of people has MAYBE 100 on it

[ukfan78]

I didn't ask them... I know what they carry because we were in there a few days ago trying seats. But there aren't any BRU that carry Recaro or Compass as far as I know...just online. There is a Target about 1 hour from here that sells the Compass B500, but I am not interested in that.

I know the stores that sell seats.....I didn't just call the BIG retailers. But there aren't many grocery stores that sell Recaro :P Like I said...maybe a Cosco or Graco....but I don't like this cheap boosters. Call me a snob, but I like NICE products.

Melissa

[Mama2J]

The only comment I have to add is that MOST parents don't pay that much attention.

I am sure a LOT don't bother with registering their carseat, and many won't get the notice. (I know we all do, that is why we are here), but I wonder if Britax sees us, as a group, as the pesky 2% of customers that are hyper sensitive.

Just my thoughts, as I see that in "real life" not that many parents pay that much attention to child seats (Not that I support that).
Erika

I agree, and that is what I was thinking before when I said, have any consumers actually been notified about this. Even if they did register the seats, they will not know about it until the notice arrives in the mail, and like you said may or may not re-install it. I'm sure people will think I am silly for re-installing mine a different way (but I don't care).

[mommy2jana]

I called the USABaby that I bought my Regent from. The owner wasn't aware of the advisory, but she said that she would consult with her husband (co-owner) and call their Britax Rep and then call me back. She understood my frustration and said she would pass that message along to their rep.

However, she says they will not be responsible for the seats since it is an "advisory" only and not a recall. Their return policy is 90 days for a store credit only. I bought my seat in February...my 90 days was up over a month ago!

I seriously don't know what I'm going to do, either. I now have to leave work early every day this week to pick Jana up from daycare on time. DF can't get her because the Regent was the seat in his vehicle. All I want is an explanation....a letter of authorization saying its ok to use the seat with the old installtion or an exchange of the Regent for another Marathon or a Boulevard. I am beyond mad at the fact that I bought this seat to keep my child safe and harnessed well beyond 40 lbs, and now I can't install it in either of our cars. :mad:

[MySillyKids]

However, she says they will not be responsible for the seats since it is an "advisory" only and not a recall. Their return policy is 90 days for a store credit only. I bought my seat in February...my 90 days was up over a month ago!


yep. Thats how britax is screwing its customers. Nice business practice.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[jenmann21]

We have to go with the new manual period. If we can't get it installed per the manual we have to tell them it's incompatible with their vehicle. It SUCKS!

That's what I thought. *sigh* I live in somewhat of an affluent area, so Britax seats are not uncommon at all. The first Regent at the next check should be really interesting...

So do you think we can even tell parents about the old installation methods but tell them that it would now be considered going against mf instructions to install it that way?

[LuvBug03]

So let's form a group to pursue this effort. Perhaps Safe Kids and the NHTSA need to be involved in addition to Britax.

I agree with this. I think the NHTSA should test the regent AND husky themselves, like they did with the infant seats... and post those results to us. I want to see someone other than britax explain these "enhancements"

[MySillyKids]

I agree with this. I think the NHTSA should test the regent AND husky themselves, like they did with the infant seats... and post those results to us. I want to see someone other than britax explain these "enhancements"

Okay, how do we get this started? anyone know?

[jen_nah]

That's what I thought. *sigh* I live in somewhat of an affluent area, so Britax seats are not uncommon at all. The first Regent at the next check should be really interesting...

So do you think we can even tell parents about the old installation methods but tell them that it would now be considered going against mf instructions to install it that way?

This is going to be my EXACT same issue as I too live in a affluent area and most of the seats we see are Britax.

[LuvBug03]

People with older cars and lap only belts do not have the booster as an option :(

or people with children under the minimums or not mentally mature enough to sit properly in a booster...

[MySillyKids]

Here gals!

https://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/email.cfm

Get emailing!!

I'm already starting!

[MySillyKids]

My email:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=19857

Britax has basically screwed almost ALL of its current users for their regent. they are now REQUIRING certain seat belt paths, and its not usuable for TONS of people in their cars.

They REFUSE to give out their 'new' facts. On how, and WHY they are changing their minds.

When I purchased my Regent, I was under the impression i could choose 3 ways to install it. Long belt path, with OPTIONAL recline bar. Short belt path with OPTIONAL recline bar. And LATCH, with OPTIONAL recline bar.

The recline bar is now MANDATORY *thats the main issue*

You can ONLY use LATCH and the Long belt path for children UNDER 40lbs.

You can ONLY use Short belt path for children OVER 40lbs. Thats unacceptable.

I hope you get a flood of emails, and PLEASE look into this issue.

[wondering1]

Recaro will overnight a seat to you - so you'd get it tomorrow! Here's the link: http://www.recarochildseats.com/aboutUs.html

[Niea]

I'm a little late to the party since I just started reading this thread this afternoon, but I can really empathize with all of you! I don't have a Regent, but was definitely considering one when my DD got bigger. Now I'll just play the "wait and see" game until then.

But I can definitely understand why many of you are so angry. I'd be beyond livid as well! I've got a Decathlon and a Boulevard and it would be akin to them telling me "Sorry, your seats only go up to 50 lbs, not 65".

It's been theorized on this thread that Britax isn't encouraged to offer compensation because it's just a few people here complaining and most people won't follow the new guidelines anyway. My take on that is that this is precisely the reason why it doesn't make sense that they don't! Wouldn't Britax rather offer compensation to those that call and complain as a good faith measure? After all, if they're aren't many complaining then it shouldn't be too difficult financially.

[LuvBug03]

Okay, how do we get this started? anyone know?

all I know is the form you can fill out at the NHTSA's website... maybe if enough of us file...

[vlsnodg]

Hi someone on the babycenter car seat board talked to a rep at Britax. The company is thing of giving a refund or Husky for people who the new installs do not work. Has anyone else been told this?

Thanks
Virginia

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

I don't know how they could give out a Husky if they don't make them anymore.

And no, we've been told it's just too bad. We will have to deal with it.

[MySillyKids]

Hi someone on the babycenter car seat board talked to a rep at Britax. The company is thing of giving a refund or Husky for people who the new installs do not work. Has anyone else been told this?

Thanks
Virginia

Nope.

[Melizerd]

But Tiffany.... here is the problem with doing that in my mind.

We are told that if we do not use the seat according to the manual, the warranty is void, correct?

So this means if Jen got into an accident and needed her seats replaced, her insurance could refuse to replace them because they weren't used correctly. OR if something happened to her child Britax could be free of liability because the seat wasn't used correctly.

Before I will be willing to go against the manual I want it in writing from Britax that it is okay to use the lbp for bigger kids or the spb for smaller kids. I want it in writing that it won't affect my warranty or my ability to sue someone should I need to.

If it was still acceptable then it should have said the "preferred" way to install is lbp for 22-40lbs and sbp for 40-80. But it ONLY gives those options in the new manual.

See my issue here?? We would be going against manufacters advice which is going against everything we tell people.


Ok I didn't read all the responses but how would your insurance company prove that you used the improper belt path for the weight of the child. Most insurance companies don't have a clue when it comes to the car seats and just reimburse no questions asked.

[ukfan78]

Recaro will overnight a seat to you - so you'd get it tomorrow! Here's the link: http://www.recarochildseats.com/aboutUs.html

Ummm... the seat is already $349 and overnight shipping will be HIGH. I am not spending $349 on a seat I am not sure of yet and I am not willing to pay overnight shipping. Thanks though.

Melissa

[Morganthe]

Ok I didn't read all the responses but how would your insurance company prove that you used the improper belt path for the weight of the child. Most insurance companies don't have a clue when it comes to the car seats and just reimburse no questions asked.

That's why dh is all for just installing it via the old methods from manual that comes with the seat. We're still medically covered, car insurance doesn't care, the law won't know about the confusing situation, the Regent has worked for years this way, and she's still better than in a booster or 3pt. :shrug-shoulders:

I don't know. I really don't know what to think by now. :( :thumbsdown:

[Melizerd]

My email:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=19857

Britax has basically screwed almost ALL of its current users for their regent. they are now REQUIRING certain seat belt paths, and its not usuable for TONS of people in their cars.

They REFUSE to give out their 'new' facts. On how, and WHY they are changing their minds.

When I purchased my Regent, I was under the impression i could choose 3 ways to install it. Long belt path, with OPTIONAL recline bar. Short belt path with OPTIONAL recline bar. And LATCH, with OPTIONAL recline bar.

The recline bar is now MANDATORY *thats the main issue*

You can ONLY use LATCH and the Long belt path for children UNDER 40lbs.

You can ONLY use Short belt path for children OVER 40lbs. Thats unacceptable.

I hope you get a flood of emails, and PLEASE look into this issue.

Done emailed :D

[Melizerd]

That's why dh is all for just installing it via the old methods from manual that comes with the seat. We're still medically covered, car insurance doesn't care, the law won't know about the confusing situation, the Regent has worked for years this way, and she's still better than in a booster or 3pt. :shrug-shoulders:

I don't know. I really don't know what to think by now. :( :thumbsdown:

I know it's something a lot of people are going to have to think about. I just was wondering out loud about it. Since Britax is telling us it's not unsafe it's just an "enhancement".

[ukfan78]

I know it's something a lot of people are going to have to think about. I just was wondering out loud about it. Since Britax is telling us it's not unsafe it's just an "enhancement".


Well Britax didn't tell me my seat was UNSAFE, but she told me that I can NOT use the seat with the LBP (48lb child). So it must not be safe enough or they wouldn't be going through all of this. She basically told me not to use it until I hear back from them by the end of the week.

Melissa

[nurse_reedle]

Here is my e-mail:

I am contacting you because we just purchased a Britax Regent 20 days ago. I was informed yesterday, per the car-seat.org forum, Britax phone representatives and the Britax web site, that we no longer have the install options with this seat. I have contacted Britax twice in 2 days. They refuse to release their data as to why this is necessary and why it was not safe before. They refuse to compensate for the seat and the shipping to ship it back to the retailer (we are under the 30 day return window). Today, we went out and reinstalled the seat in our main car for each of the weight requirements (LBP for children under 40 lbs and SBP for children over 40 lbs, and recline bare required). It did work in *our* car. We know that there will be install issues in other cars we ride in sometimes and also that we will have to request a car that is identically structured t ours if we ever have our car worked on or anything and have to use a rental car. We did indepth research before purchasing this seat, as we wanted the best protection for our child. Now we have a seat, that although not useless for us at all times, will be useless for us at least part of the time. They have given no facts as to the reason for this change. They are stating that the Husky (predecessor to the Regent and basically same carseat) is fine with the orginal install instructions. I would like to know if there is anyway to get the studies or the info as to why this MANDATED change that *only* ENHANCES safety. It is not a recommendation, but a mandate. I would also like to know why the differences on the SBP/LBP install that make them safer at the respective recommended weights. Thank you for yout time in this matter.

[Melizerd]

Hmm some people are being told to keep installing it the way it is until they get the kits.

[LuvBug03]

Hmm some people are being told to keep installing it the way it is until they get the kits.
yes this is what I was told by 2 different reps, leave it as is until the kit comes...

[MySillyKids]

Hmm some people are being told to keep installing it the way it is until they get the kits.

One Britax guy told me that i could continue to use the LATCH. I dont think they have it all together over there quite yet.

(no you cannot use LATCH until you get the long belt LATCH)

If under 40lbs you have to use the LBP, Recline bar, and TT!

ETA-

This is FROM britax!:

"Until the longer LATCH connector is received with the product update kit, consumers
are advised to use the long belt-routing method using either the vehicle lap-shoulder
belt or vehicle lap-belt for enhanced performance."

[ukfan78]

Well in my case, the kit isn't going to help me any since the Latch strap is for LBP Latch and I can't use Latch no matter what with a 48lb child. So the only thing I am gaining with the kit is a new manual that I have read many times now. So waiting until getting the kit is a waste of time for people like me. But when I asked what I should do (since SBP doesn't work) she put me on hold to ask and then told me DO NOT continue to use LBP for a child over 40lbs and I need to find some other seat to use or not go anywhere until I hear back from them by the end of the week.

I was speaking with Susan at first and she transfered me to someone else..an advisory rep.

Melissa

[MySillyKids]

Oh Melissa, you get the ultra cool sticker to add to your seat :whistle: :rolleyes: :whistle:

[papooses]

We have to go with the new manual period. If we can't get it installed per the manual we have to tell them it's incompatible with their vehicle. It SUCKS!

Right. At checks we have to stick to the manual. If their parental choice is against the manual then we have to step back & just make sure they already signed the liability waiver.

[UlrikeDG]

Some versions of the Britax manuals say to use the lock-off on one side of the seat, while others say the other, and still others say either or both is fine. If you call Britax, they'll say either or both. At a check, it's acceptible to explain the situation to the parent and tell them to call Britax to confirm that it is, indeed, ok to use the lock-off that works best.

When all is said and done and Britax decides how they really want to handle things (because who knows what they'll be saying about the whole thing next week), if they do say the "other" belt path is ok in situations where the "recommended" belt path doesn't work, that's what I'd tell parents at a check: "We installed it this way, because the other way wouldn't fit. In the past, Britax has OKed this, but you need to call Britax and confirm that this is acceptible, and if not, you'll need to replace the seat with one that does fit."

[jenmann21]

Some versions of the Britax manuals say to use the lock-off on one side of the seat, while others say the other, and still others say either or both is fine. If you call Britax, they'll say either or both. At a check, it's acceptible to explain the situation to the parent and tell them to call Britax to confirm that it is, indeed, ok to use the lock-off that works best.

When all is said and done and Britax decides how they really want to handle things (because who knows what they'll be saying about the whole thing next week), if they do say the "other" belt path is ok in situations where the "recommended" belt path doesn't work, that's what I'd tell parents at a check: "We installed it this way, because the other way wouldn't fit. In the past, Britax has OKed this, but you need to call Britax and confirm that this is acceptible, and if not, you'll need to replace the seat with one that does fit."

I think that makes a lot of sense. :thumbsup:

I think I'll just have to ask the Senior Checker what she is going to sign off on. That will determine what we do, I think.

[papooses]

That makes sense -- I was taught, though, to try calling the manufacturer during the check to help reduce liability...?

[UlrikeDG]

When possible, I'd do that. Britax has short hours, though, and most checks I've done have been evenings/weekends.

[mommy2jana]

Which Britax Rep said that the seats were going to have to be returned to the store? I forgot who here said that a rep told them that?

I just got a voicemail from USABaby, they talked to their Britax Rep and the rep told her that: the stores aren't responsible, that the kits are going out free of charge, and that the nothing about the recline bar has changed other than what is normally in the manual.

I am going to call her back, she said she'd give me the number to her rep.

I don't know how they get off saying that nothing changed about the recline bar. Basically her rep only said there was a change in LATCH installation.

I guess the only way we're going to get through is to keep talking to Britax directly or to get the NHTSA involved.

I just want a seat that I can use!!!!

[rachel3612]

I just installed the Regent with Latch in the short path and the recline bar, that is right for a 41lbs kid right?

The short belt path with the seat belt does not work at all, not even close and I knew that before I even tried, the RA doesn't even work there because of the seat belt stalk. (2004 Nissan Quest, captains chairs)

DH thinks we shouldn't be using Latch over 40lbs since we can't find the answer to the 40 or 48lbs question. If we can't use Latch than this seat is no longer usable for us. Liam will be 5 in a few weeks so if we can't use the Regent we will buy a Parkway.

[papooses]

I'm just confused about the angry at Britax part.

This seems to be meat of your intent, but I think your original format of your question was a little more confrontational than necessary so I'm not surprised that you're getting the responses you are....

I am so angry because they're just not being as communicative as they could/should be -- they're giving us the run around as to WHAT the changes are from 1 version of the seat to another that require this change of installation method & WHY.

That's it & that's enough to be totally ticked off about, IMO.

[jen_nah]

I just installed the Regent with Latch in the short path and the recline bar, that is right for a 41lbs kid right?

The short belt path with the seat belt does not work at all, not even close and I knew that before I even tried, the RA doesn't even work there because of the seat belt stalk. (2004 Nissan Quest, captains chairs)

DH thinks we shouldn't be using Latch over 40lbs since we can't find the answer to the 40 or 48lbs question. If we can't use Latch than this seat is no longer usable for us. Liam will be 5 in a few weeks so if we can't use the Regent we will buy a Parkway.

Per the LATCH manual the lower anchor limit is per the CSR LATCH limits which on all Britax seats is 48lbs.

[MySillyKids]

I just installed the Regent with Latch in the short path and the recline bar, that is right for a 41lbs kid right?

The short belt path with the seat belt does not work at all, not even close and I knew that before I even tried, the RA doesn't even work there because of the seat belt stalk. (2004 Nissan Quest, captains chairs)

DH thinks we shouldn't be using Latch over 40lbs since we can't find the answer to the 40 or 48lbs question. If we can't use Latch than this seat is no longer usable for us. Liam will be 5 in a few weeks so if we can't use the Regent we will buy a Parkway.


PER new Britax standpoint. ANY child over 40lbs has to have SBP (not latch) and the recline bar. LBP and Long latch path, are for kids under 40lbs.


So what you did is Not correct.

[rachel3612]

PER new Britax standpoint. ANY child over 40lbs has to have SBP (not latch) and the recline bar. LBP and Long latch path, are for kids under 40lbs.


So what you did is Not correct.

Really? We can't use Latch over 40lbs?

[LuvBug03]

no you can use latch over 40lbs if your vehicle allows it... you just have to use the short path method

[MySillyKids]

Really? We can't use Latch over 40lbs?

see a few posts up, you cannot use LATCH at all right now, until you get the new longer latch thing.

I have a 35lbs'er and i cant use latch right now either. I have to use the LBP, and the recline bar.

Good luck.. We are all having issues :rolleyes:

According to Britax, you have to use the SBP, with a kid OVER 40lbs!

http://www.britaxusa.net/support/Regent_R2.pdf.pdf Is the new manual we have to go by.
:rolleyes:

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Yeah you can still use LATCH to the limit that the vehicle allows.

[MySillyKids]

no you can use latch over 40lbs if your vehicle allows it... you just have to use the short path method

Well strike me NON CPST rofl!


"Until the longer LATCH connector is received with the product update kit, consumers
are advised to use the long belt-routing method using either the vehicle lap-shoulder
belt or vehicle lap-belt for enhanced performance."

is what i was referring to. Thats from britax's 'enhancement' notice.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

For a 41lb child you can use the short belt path LATCH installation because Britax says the LATCH limit is 48lbs if they don't specify in the vehicle manual.

So in the Nissan you can use the short belt path LATCH until 48lbs. Yes, you are fine.

[MySillyKids]

For a 41lb child you can use the short belt path LATCH installation because Britax says the LATCH limit is 48lbs if they don't specify in the vehicle manual.

So in the Nissan you can use the short belt path LATCH until 48lbs. Yes, you are fine.

:yeahthat:

I'll delete my misleading post ;) (or not since its been quoted rofl)

[LuvBug03]

lol! its them that are so confusing! the latch strap is only longer... so using the short path isnt going to need to length, so you would be ok.

[wondering1]

I'd rather have my child safer at any cost than to have a company hold back their findings because the old way met government standards. When the goal is the safety of my child, and we are all human and make mistakes and learn new things every day, I'd rather be given the information right away instead of waiting for all the P's and Q's to be put in place.

I will add that my child is fluctuating between 39 lbs to 41 lbs. So I am in an uncomfortable situation, as well. When he is 39 lbs, I must do a long belt path. When he is 40+ pounds, I must do a short belt path install. I also had to change to routing the belt inside the recline bar and will be seeking CPS Tech support on questions I have about how the buckle is sitting and what would be optimal.

[arly1983]

I'd rather have my child safer at any cost than to have a company hold back their findings because the old way met government standards. When the goal is the safety of my child, and we are all human and make mistakes and learn new things every day, I'd rather be given the information right away instead of waiting for all the P's and Q's to be put in place.

I will add that my child is fluctuating between 39 lbs to 41 lbs. So I am in an uncomfortable situation, as well. When he is 39 lbs, I must do a long belt path. When he is 40+ pounds, I must do a short belt path install. I also had to change to routing the belt inside the recline bar and will be seeking CPS Tech support on questions I have about how the buckle is sitting and what would be optimal.

I am not mad at Britax because of their safer methods....

I am mad because their safer methods leave me high and dry and they are not going to do anything about it....

I have $540 of worthless regent and no more money...WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST I DO?????

[Chameleon]

The new manual says that you can use the SHORT LATCH PATH for 40-80lbs. Page 12.

Not 48lbs like before. Just want to clear that up. They go on to clarify that in the FAQ of the new Notice page.

[wondering1]

Britax is working on what they are going to do about it. If you don't want to wait, then sell your seats on eBay or find a local buyer from a local mom's list and take it from there. One very basic tip for eBay sales is to list your auction to end on Sunday night as long as it isn't a holiday weekend.

I'm in communication with a specialist at the NHTSA and will be keeping close contact with Britax and the NHTSA. Who is doing this with Safe Kids?

[MySillyKids]

The new manual says that you can use the SHORT LATCH PATH for 40-80lbs. Page 12.

Not 48lbs like before. Just want to clear that up. They go on to clarify that in the FAQ of the new Notice page.

you are correct, i stated i was wrong! :whistle:

[arly1983]

Britax is working on what they are going to do about it. If you don't want to wait, then sell your seats on eBay or find a local buyer from a local mom's list and take it from there. One very basic tip for eBay sales is to list your auction to end on Sunday night as long as it isn't a holiday weekend.

I'm in communication with a specialist at the NHTSA and will be keeping close contact with Britax and the NHTSA. Who is doing this with Safe Kids?

I'd like to know where you are getting your information, because everyone I talked to at Britax said that there were no plans for compensation but that their team would work on my installation problems.

[wondering1]

Lots of buyers and sellers in this thread: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=175519#post175519

[MySillyKids]

Lots of buyers and sellers in this thread: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=175519#post175519

Uh... the title of the thread says I have NIB Onyx or Sahara Regent cover...want something else..

Wow.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

The new manual says that you can use the SHORT LATCH PATH for 40-80lbs. Page 12.

Not 48lbs like before. Just want to clear that up. They go on to clarify that in the FAQ of the new Notice page.

They still say as long as the manufacter of the vehicle says it's okay. They can't overwrite the vehicle manufacters. And still Britax limit on the record is 48lbs. If they plan to change that they need to change it in the LATCH manual. I think it was just badly worded as is the rest of it.

[Chameleon]

They still say as long as the manufacter of the vehicle says it's okay. They can't overwrite the vehicle manufacters. And still Britax limit on the record is 48lbs. If they plan to change that they need to change it in the LATCH manual. I think it was just badly worded as is the rest of it.

I understand that, but for those us with No Limits on Latch and to follow the CR Manual (I drive a Toyota Sienna, and this is Per Toyota) this is great.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Britax is working on what they are going to do about it. If you don't want to wait, then sell your seats on eBay or find a local buyer from a local mom's list and take it from there. One very basic tip for eBay sales is to list your auction to end on Sunday night as long as it isn't a holiday weekend.

I'm in communication with a specialist at the NHTSA and will be keeping close contact with Britax and the NHTSA. Who is doing this with Safe Kids?

Okay, great I sell my seats on Ebay. But first I have to wait until the kits get here and new instructions. What do I do in the MEANTIME? Use the seats against manufacter's advice? I can't afford to go out and buy more seats. I had to buy these a year apart to afford them!

So what am I supposed to do in the meantime? Britax has told me if I use the seats the way I am now I am totally liable for anything that happens. So what do I do about Cardiology appointments until they send me the fix and I can sell them? Did you know in Utah they can file a medical neglect petition if I miss that appointment? We've been without insurance for 18 months, they are 6 months or more late. So do I risk a medical neglect petition or do I risk using the carseats wrong?

Provided I CAN sell them on Ebay... and go out and buy new seats before I ship these!

You don't seem to understand. I have $40 to my name right now. I can not go out and buy two new seats until Britax fixes this. I have two kids with special needs who NEED to go to the dr. And I have carseats that I'm told I can not use, but not told WHY?

I've been told why I can't use long belt path with kids over 40lbs, fine. Obviously I don't want the sides collapsing (although I personally am pissed that they made the seat weaker so that would happen.)

But why can't I use short belt path LATCH with my 33 and 35lb kids?

This makes no sense to me. If the seat could fail with a 41lb child in it with the long belt path...if the sides are going to collapse and therefor I'd be horribly endangering my child by using it that way... then what happens if I'm in an accident at higher speeds than they tested at, with a 38lb child with the long belt path? Why would the seat not fail then? I personally would prefer to use the short belt path all the time if the seat is that weak.

But why can't I use the short belt path before 40lbs even though it's the strongest part of the seat, and therefor safer after 40lbs?? Because they say I can't but won't tell me why.

If I wanted a weaker seat than Britax I would not have forked out the money for it. I would have bought a weaker seat. I got Britax because I thought it was the safest option. I am now doubting that.

It is common business practice that if you sell a product that then can not be used the way the buyer was told it could be... that you replace the product.

That's great that you got a good installation in your vehicle. But I can't. I should not be responsible for replacing a seat that I researched to ensure it would fit. I bought it knowing it would only work with short belt path LATCH. If they take that option away from me, then they need to make it right.

[AdventureMom]

I've been told why I can't use long belt path with kids over 40lbs, fine. Obviously I don't want the sides collapsing (although I personally am pissed that they made the seat weaker so that would happen.)

Oh, is this the issue? I didn't read all of the other posts so sorry if I missed it... :o Just curious if this is what it is or not.

[wondering1]

SingleMom2Girls, I'm single also. I'll send you the money I've been saving for DS's teeth problems.

Send a PM and I'll give you my personal info.

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

Oh, is this the issue? I didn't read all of the other posts so sorry if I missed it... :o Just curious if this is what it is or not.

No you didn't miss it, it was on the baby center board. That's what the same rep said who also said they were going to give out Huskys or refunds. But that does NOT explain why we HAVE to use the lpb for under 40lbs. If it isn't safe for over 40lbs why would I want to use it under 40lbs!

Here is the post.

http://boards.babycenter.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=bcus9421&tid=15400

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

SingleMom2Girls, I'm single also. I'll send you the money I've been saving for DS's teeth problems.

Send a PM and I'll give you my personal info.

BRITAX needs to fix this, not someone else.

I wanted an answer on what I'm supposed to do while Britax comes up with a "fix" even though they have not told us they are going to do that.

I actually thought about going to BRU to get the new Triumph but they don't have it. I was going to beg my in laws to get them for them.. but then I decided it isn't their responsibility either. It is Britax's responsibility to right the wrong.

I have a million and one other things to worry about right now. My own medical situation, my kid's medical situation. That is why I got Regents.. so they would be safe as long as possible. Because I knew I wouldn't be able to buy new seats later. I didn't want to take the chance of them outgrowing something else sooner.

This situation has stressed me out beyond belief. That isn't fair to me, I stressed months ago to make sure they were safe. I didn't know I was buying a seat that they are concerned would collapse onto my child, or I wouldn't have bought it!

I'm frustrated with far more than Britax, but they are the one thing that is fixable if they would just step up to the plate and do it. I had tried the Regents in all of our vehicles and the in laws so that if I needed someone to take the kids they could. Now nobody can unless they take my Dad's truck. He needs it for work so that isn't going to happen.

I know nobody can understand.. but trust me. This was just the worst possible timing for Britax to do this. My stress level was already through the roof.

[UlrikeDG]

I'm going to lock this thread now because, at over 200 posts, it's hard to follow along. Feel free to start a new thread to discuss these issues.

Please, do be sure not to fall into flame mode. Emotions are running high right now, but personal attacks are still not allowed. If you're too angry to post politely, take a break or ignore the other poster altogether.