I feel like I prevented a tragedy

[tarynsmum]

Or at least a potential one :o

I was taking DD for my morning fast walk/jog (more walk than job, but you get the idea) a little later than usual because he overslept a bit - it was around 10:00. Just as I turned onto the "main road" in my neighborhood, I see two grandparents loading what two little girls into what looks like the cargo of a station wagon. I RAN ya'll, about 2 blocks to where they were, just as I see they have those fold-down rear-facing seats. The girls were about 3 and 4 (teeny) and there was a boy in the actual back seat who was 6 (but chubby ;)). I parked the jogger and walked up to them (gearing up, ya know), and said, "Not to butt into your business, but that's really unsafe, not to mention illegal." Very nicely, tinged with terror in my voice. The grandma REARED around and says, "I knew it! I told him it was a bad idea, but he insisted! THANK YOU for saying something!" And then she hugged me :love:

Apparently, they're watching the kids during the day since school is out, and the oldest daughter (who is 14), decided to sleep in, so they were going to pick her up (the couple's daughter had driven the kids over, but neglected to take the car seats out of her car). The grandfather KNEW it was wrong, but since they were only going about 15 minutes away, he figured it would be OK. Um, no. Grandma immediately got the kids out of the car (which is when I asked the boy how old he was, and he said that he rides in a booster :D ) The grandfather then said he would go and pick up the older granddaughter, whil Grandma stayed home with the younger 3. I'm happy.

:)

[mommy2env]

YaY!! I am glad you were able to say something ( and run! lol) that made a difference. Thank god they listened. You started off your day very well:D

[DaniCPST]

Good job!!! That is awesome they listened, appreciated, and thanked you for the heads up!!

[JaRylan]

:thumbsup:

[tjham]

That gave me goosebumps! :D

[Niea]

I guess I'm confused. . .

Were the carseats installed on the rear-facing seat? Or were the girls just going to ride without carseats?

Now, the girls should have been in carseats for sure, but as far as I know it's not illegal to ride in a rear-facing vehicle seat if the vehicle came that way. Am I missing something?

[CDNTech]

I guess I'm confused. . .

Were the carseats installed on the rear-facing seat? Or were the girls just going to ride without carseats?

Now, the girls should have been in carseats for sure, but as far as I know it's not illegal to ride in a rear-facing vehicle seat if the vehicle came that way. Am I missing something?

You can NOT install a child restraint (carseat) on any type of vehicle seat that faces the rear or faces sideways. Child restraints can only be installed on vehicle seats that face the FRONT of the vehicle.

The girls would've needed to be restrained in their carseats which were not present. If they were small, there is no way they would have fit into the adult seatbelts properly.

[Leila]

Yay!!!!! So glad you were able to stop them!!

Jen, it sounds like the carseats were in another car, at their daughter's home.

[Niea]

You can NOT install a child restraint (carseat) on any type of vehicle seat that faces the rear or faces sideways. Child restraints can only be installed on vehicle seats that face the FRONT of the vehicle.

I'm aware of that. But the way the story is told, it sounds like the carseats were in the daughter's car, not the car the children were riding in. So that leads me to think they weren't going to sit in carseats at all.

[CDNTech]

Yay!!!!! So glad you were able to stop them!!

Jen, it sounds like the carseats were in another car, at their daughter's home.

You mean Niea, not me. :)

[CDNTech]

I'm aware of that. But the way the story is told, it sounds like the carseats were in the daughter's car, not the car the children were riding in. So that leads me to think they weren't going to sit in carseats at all.

They probably weren't but your question was whether a carseat can be installed on a rearfacing vehicle seat and the answer is no. It is illegal to do this and specifically states in all carseat manuals that the carseat may only be installed on a forward facing vehicle seat.

Hope that clears things up.:)

[CDNTech]

Way to go, Heather! :thumbsup:

[Niea]

They probably weren't but your question was whether a carseat can be installed on a rearfacing vehicle seat and the answer is no. It is illegal to do this and specifically states in all carseat manuals that the carseat may only be installed on a forward facing vehicle seat.

Hope that clears things up.:)

Where did I ask this???? I'm extra confused because that's not what I meant, nor is it what I wrote.

I asked:

1. Were the grandparents installing the carseats on the rear-facing vehicle seat?

or

2. Were the children going to be riding without carseats at all?

If they were opting with #1, then obviously that's a no-no. I know that. But if they were opting to go with #2, then my comment was that that's not illegal in general, provided that the children are large enough to do without a carseat. In this case, the children were not large enough to go without carseats (in our opinion, but that's up to the law in the state in which the children reside).

[CDNTech]

Now, the girls should have been in carseats for sure, but as far as I know it's not illegal to ride in a rear-facing vehicle seat if the vehicle came that way. Am I missing something?

This is what led me to believe that you were asking if it was illegal to install carseats on rearfacing benches in vehicles.

It was the "girls should have been in carseats for sure" coupled with the "am I missing something" question with the "as far as I know it's not illegal" in the middle of the other two statements.

Just a little confusion I guess. ;)

Also, just wanted to add... I realize it would depend on the state, but for all of Canada, a child must be restrained (in a child restraint, not a booster) until the age of 6 yrs old OR 40lbs. Some provinces have stricter laws on top of the Federal law that need to be followed as well.

[Niea]

This is what led me to believe that you were asking if it was illegal to install carseats on rearfacing benches in vehicles.

It was the "girls should have been in carseats for sure" coupled with the "am I missing something" question with the "as far as I know it's not illegal" in the middle of the other two statements.

Just a little confusion I guess. ;)

Also, just wanted to add... I realize it would depend on the state, but for all of Canada, a child must be restrained (in a child restraint, not a booster) until the age of 6 yrs old OR 40lbs. Some provinces have stricter laws on top of the Federal law that need to be followed as well.

Sorry, I did not mean to add to the confusion! And I didn't realize we were talking about Canada, so that does make a difference too.

I guess I was trying to figure out what, exactly, was illegal in this situation. It seems that if these small girls were riding without carseats, then that's the illegal part. In that case, it actually doesn't matter which direction the vehicle seat was facing.

But in the end, yeah, it wasn't safe for the girls to be riding! So I'm glad that they kept them home since they couldn't transport them safely.

[momof2kiddos]

Great job!! :thumbsup:

[ThreeBeans]

Good job! :thumbsup:

[Leila]

You mean Niea, not me. :)

Sorry about that! :o

[tarynsmum]

OK, to clear up confusion (sorry about that):

There were no car seats at all. The 3 and 4 y.o. were both under 40 pounds (just to give you an approximation on size). When I came up, the grandfather was trying to figure out how to get the lap-shoulder belt around the 3 y.o. - the shoulder belt hit her across the eyes (that's how little she was), so he was wrapping it around and behind her (because, you know, that makes it better). The 4 y.o. was a little taller, the shoulder belt was slicing her in the neck (at least it wasn't across her face). The lap belts on both were going across their tummies.

I'm in Pennsylvania, where it's illegal to have a child under 4 and 40# not in a CRS. The booster law also says 4-8 y.o.s must be in a booster, so that would be another ticket on the boy (from a legal standpoint). Regardless of how they were facing, it was illegal (methinks they were put in the far back so that it would be less obvious, but I'm really cynical. The first thing the grandfather said was, "I know it's wrong", so that's why I think he did use the RFing seats)

[Loves2sing]

Thank God you were there to back the Grandma up! Good job!

[chaoticoctopus]

:thumbsup: Awesome that you were willing to stick your neck out there, and you made a difference!!! :thumbsup:

[cdncasper]

Great job

[mommycat]

Also, just wanted to add... I realize it would depend on the state, but for all of Canada, a child must be restrained (in a child restraint, not a booster) until the age of 6 yrs old OR 40lbs. Some provinces have stricter laws on top of the Federal law that need to be followed as well.

Can you tell me where to find that? (the 6 yrs old part) Is it just for some provinces? NS requires a harnessed seat to 40 lb, but apparently it does not specify an age limit, according to ChildSafetyLink (http://www.childsafetylink.ca/safetyinfo-carseat.asp). The only age limits specified are for RF to age 1 (AND 22 lb) and booster till age 9 (OR 57 inches). The toddler/FF harness is only bounded by min. 22 lb/1year to a min. 40 lb. :confused: I would love to be able to include an age limit when I spread the word - in fact, I (apparently mistakenly?) told a friend "4 and 40" last week...

[*HH*]

Thank God you were there to back the Grandma up! Good job!

I agree :thumbsup: Great job!

[wondering1]

Yes!!!!!

[CDNTech]

Can you tell me where to find that? (the 6 yrs old part) Is it just for some provinces? NS requires a harnessed seat to 40 lb, but apparently it does not specify an age limit, according to ChildSafetyLink (http://www.childsafetylink.ca/safetyinfo-carseat.asp). The only age limits specified are for RF to age 1 (AND 22 lb) and booster till age 9 (OR 57 inches). The toddler/FF harness is only bounded by min. 22 lb/1year to a min. 40 lb. :confused: I would love to be able to include an age limit when I spread the word - in fact, I (apparently mistakenly?) told a friend "4 and 40" last week...

I'll have to go find a link for you... but it is a Federal law (so for all of Canada).

The Federal law must be followed by all provinces and then it is up to them whether or not they want to build on the Federal law, but the Federal law is minimum.

It states
Children under 20lbs MUST be rearfacing.
Children under 40lbs OR 6 years of age MUST be in a child restraint.
A top tether strap MUST be used with a FF Child restraint.

This means your 42lb 2yr old could legally be in nothing (depending on provincial laws which may accompany federal laws) and it could also mean that your 35lb 5 yr old must be in a child restraint... crazy, huh? This only applies to the child restraint laws. Read on for the good news ;)

There is a way around these ridiculous laws...

A child under 16 is required to be properly buckled into a seatbelt, if they are not, it is against a proper use law. So all children must be properly restrained under one law or another... basically an indirect booster law for all of Canada.

I can't find any good links right now (I'm sooo bad at links), but I can assure you this is absolutely true. I just participated in a checkstop on Tuesday and personally watched the officers write up these tickets as I told them the infractions with the child and/or carseat. They are Federal laws and must be followed in all of Canada in addition to whatever provincial laws you have.

Hope that helps.

Edited to add: 4 and 40 is a bare minimum of our best practice standards, but that has nothing to do with law. :rolleyes:

[mommycat]

Thanks, it does. I never thought it through, I guess, but the "OR" means the NS law does meet the federal law, and in fact exceeds it, because in NS a 35lb 8-yr-old (tiny kid!!!) would still need to be in a harnessed seat. So YAY for NS. I just wish they had added in "AND 4 yr old" onto that booster law... They could do it since you are able to get seats that harness to 48 or now even 65 lbs.

According to this: http://www.babybag.com/articles/htwt_av.htm (if it is accurate), the average wight for both girls and boys is still just under 40 lb at 4 years, but those heavier kids could really benefit from an age limit.

[CDNTech]

I posted basically the same info over on the Canadian board in case any CDN's come along wanting the same info. :) (and made it easily searchable with canada and law in the title);)

[laurenrachey]

That made me laugh, because I can just hear that grandma whipping around and saying that. Like I can just see how that all played out in my head. hehehe good for you, and that's great that they were so receptive!

[lovemyfamily]

Aww that is so sweet of you. I would have been paranoid to say anything either, but the worst case scenario, for you, is they bite your head off and do it anyway. I am glad they were understanding and took your advice.