Kids and Deet

[gwenvet]

DSis really pushing the DEET this year and I really don't want to use it, but that's just a gut reaction. Does anyone have info or ideas about using it on kids? I want to start with Skin so Soft, but this was his reply to that idea.:(
Thanks

DEET and Child Safety

The American Academy of Pediatrics generally recommends maximum DEET concentrations of 30% for children and infants older than 2 months of age. Lower concentrations are not as long lasting, requiring more frequent reapplication.

Repellent products that do not contain DEET are not likely to offer the same degree of protection from mosquito bites as products containing DEET. Non-DEET repellents have not necessarily been as thoroughly studied as DEET and may not be safer for use on children. No serious illness has arisen from use of DEET when used according to the manufacturer?s recommendations, according to the CDC. It is generally agreed that DEET should not be applied more than once a day.

CDC recommendations for DEET use in pregnant women do not differ from those for non-pregnant adults.

The CDC offers these additional tips when applying repellent product to children:
? When using repellent on a child, apply it to your own hands and then rub them on your child. Avoid the child?s eyes and mouth and apply sparingly around the ears.
? Do not apply repellent to children?s hands. (Children tend to put their hands in their mouths.)
? Do not allow children under 10 years old to apply insect repellent to themselves; have an adult do it for them. Keep repellents out of reach of children.
? For children under 2 months of age, protect against mosquitoes by using a carrier draped with mosquito netting with an elastic edge for a tight fit.

[lodonal65]

My google search came up with a TON of info on DEET causing everything from cancer to ADHD.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&pwst=1&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=deet+causing+neurological+effects&spell=1

[skaterbabscpst]

We use some homeopathic/organic deet-free something or other, but it's in the caar and I don't remember what it is. I got it from the HFS and is *does* work. Now to remember to get it out and use it. :p

[Yoshi]

I will never use anything with DEET- I've read a TON of articles (years ago when DS was younger and headed off to Boy scout camp in the mosquito infested mountains) and none of them were reassuring. My motto is: If too much is toxic- than a little bit is not safe, either. I think it is a neurotoxin. Sorry, that's not gonna go on my kid! I prefer the Naturapel products and the California Baby stuff-also- long sleeves, and no dusk outdoor play for little kids. If I was going to the rainforest or the Everglades- I might use it on myself.:twocents:

[AdventureMom]

We did use DEET when we were on our sailing trip last year (10 months to the Bahamas). But that's because we would be getting close to the tropics where malaria is more prevalent. As it turns out, two weeks after leaving Georgetown, Bahamas, and arriving in Nassau, we heard about the malaria outbreak on Georgetown - the infected folks were there when we were there... :eek:

Having said that, we had a friend visit us in the Bahamas with her family/kids and they refused to use the DEET stuff. She said years ago she was living in South America and had DEET in her backpack. It leaked and ate a hole in the backpack. We brushed off her comments and kept using it. Shortly after they left, we were clearing some of our mess off the deck of our boat and I noticed that something had eaten the finish off the fiberglass deck. Then I noticed the DEET bugspray had leaked in our ziploc bag, had eaten a hole in the bag, and then in the tough coating on the fiberglass... We threw it out after that! (ETA: but we were returning to the States by then...)

Scary stuff.

[joolsplus3]

I'd trust the CDC... people have been using this stuff for years and years and if it were really making people sick, we'd know about it. West Nile Virus, St Louis Encephalitis, etc...THAT makes you sick...not DEET.

[sirrahn]

What else really works? I don't really want to use it on my kids either, but with West Nile prevalent around here and a DD who seems to be especially attractive to mosquitos for some reason, I'm not sure what else to do.

We were outside for a very short time over the weekend and my 4 yr old DD is covered with bites on her legs. We did see a few flying around, but no one else got any bites and she was like this last year too. I told her she must be too sweet;)

Anyway, I'd love some recommendations for more natural things that are truly effective. I saw something a few years ago on TV(maybe on 60 minutes or something??) that showed nothing besides DEET really worked.

[Yoshi]

I'd trust the CDC... people have been using this stuff for years and years and if it were really making people sick, we'd know about it. West Nile Virus, St Louis Encephalitis, etc...THAT makes you sick...not DEET.

Well, I think you can only trust gov't agencies so far. The CDC also says vaccines are safe and while I trust them on that issue-many people question them on that topic.

Things change - what is designated "safe" today by the CDC or FDA may be a problem substance years later. For example-when my husband was young growing up on Long Island they used to spray DDT on the streets to kill mosquito larva.....Now it is banned. They used to use Diazinon grub killer on school fields and golf courses- then birds would drop DEAD by the scores. So now they don't (or shouldn't, I suppose)

Safe is a relative term to me.
I get notified by my school district when they use pesticides in and around the building and I have the option of my child staying away from school if it occurs during school hours. Poison is poison.....

[joolsplus3]

Well, I think you can only trust gov't agencies so far. The CDC also says vaccines are safe and while I trust them on that issue-many people question them on that topic.

Things change - what is designated "safe" today by the CDC or FDA may be a problem substance years later. For example-when my husband was young growing up on Long Island they used to spray DDT on the streets to kill mosquito larva.....Now it is banned. They used to use Diazinon grub killer on school fields and golf courses- then birds would drop DEAD by the scores. So now they don't (or shouldn't, I suppose)

Safe is a relative term to me.
I get notified by my school district when they use pesticides in and around the building and I have the option of my child staying away from school if it occurs during school hours. Poison is poison.....

I'm biased, my brother was born retarded after his mother got Rubella while pregnant... he was almost ok, till he got Encephalitis from a mosquito...no matter what nebulously bad effects a vaccine or DEET would have caused him (heck, all my brothers are ADHD...not sure if it's bad, since one of them had the energy to invent that little credit card swiping device on every store counter today, lol), it would arguably have been better than a life of profound retardation and institutionalization due to completely preventable illnesses.

:)

[Yoshi]

I'm biased, my brother was born retarded after his mother got Rubella while pregnant... he was almost ok, till he got Encephalitis from a mosquito...no matter what nebulously bad effects a vaccine or DEET would have caused him (heck, all my brothers are ADHD...not sure if it's bad, since one of them had the energy to invent that little credit card swiping device on every store counter today, lol), it would arguably have been better than a life of profound retardation and institutionalization due to completely preventable illnesses.

:)

Point taken, I can understand your position. Personal experience with things like that can certainly help make your mind up. That is very sad about your brother and I am pro-most-vaccines for the same reasons.

[Morganthe]

I prefer spraying the repellent on dd's clothes instead of her body. It works just as well. If we're walking in the woods or in broad sunlight, I prefer her to wear loose long sleeves & pants for extra protection against weather & plantlife anyway. I'll use a lighter spray, like skin so soft, that doesn't include DEET for her face & neck & any other bare skin areas.

I got this idea years ago when I was active duty and out in the field. The concentration level of DEET at the time was not approved for skin, but we'd spray it directly on our BDU's, then let them dry a couple of days before wearing them. Since I wore t-shirts & other lightweight stuff underneath, I considered it more like an outer shell. It worked great.

I remember being so exhausted I fell asleep on top of my pack after taking my boots off to empty the sand out. I woke up with my ankles on fire. First experience with Chiggers & biting ants :rolleyes: But they didn't go under my pant legs, they were just eating into my sock area. Oh well, I sprayed some reg. bug spray, rubbed on an anti-itching stick and went back to sleep :p To be young again ;) I was ready to go after 3 hours of solid rest. Military's a great place to be if you're high energy and have insomnia. :love:

[lovinwaves]

(heck, all my brothers are ADHD...not sure if it's bad, since one of them had the energy to invent that little credit card swiping device on every store counter today, lol), it would arguably have been better than a life of profound retardation and institutionalization due to completely preventable illnesses.

:)

OMG!! Did he really???????? :thumbsup: :cool: My Dh works for the largest financial(and credit card) institution in the world so he would love to know this!

[BrookeSLP]

We use DEET everyday in the summer. Several brands have DEET levels at 5% or 7%.

[joolsplus3]

OMG!! Did he really???????? :thumbsup: :cool: My Dh works for the largest financial(and credit card) institution in the world so he would love to know this!

Yeah, he worked for Verifone back when they first started up...was mad they paid him in stock and sold out WAY too soon...d'oh!

[joolsplus3]

I prefer spraying the repellent on dd's clothes instead of her body.
Totally...you know they sell 100% DEET at Walmart? I mean, I'm not scared of the stuff (when used as directed), but wow, that seems... extreme...I guess that one drop on your shoe should work for a week :D

LOL about insomniac/energetic people in the military... my dh was happily in the navy for 27 years, and he still has so much energy and never sleeps that you'd think he's on speed most of the time :whistle:

[UlrikeDG]

I did a bunch of research on DEET and natural alternatives last week. I don't have time to format the info into a reply just now, but I'll do it later today if my internet doesn't go down again.

My parents mostly sprayed just my clothes (unless we were going into tick-infested woods), and that's what I've done with my kids when using DEET as well.

[sirrahn]

We did use DEET when we were on our sailing trip last year (10 months to the Bahamas). But that's because we would be getting close to the tropics where malaria is more prevalent. As it turns out, two weeks after leaving Georgetown, Bahamas, and arriving in Nassau, we heard about the malaria outbreak on Georgetown - the infected folks were there when we were there... :eek:

Having said that, we had a friend visit us in the Bahamas with her family/kids and they refused to use the DEET stuff. She said years ago she was living in South America and had DEET in her backpack. It leaked and ate a hole in the backpack. We brushed off her comments and kept using it. Shortly after they left, we were clearing some of our mess off the deck of our boat and I noticed that something had eaten the finish off the fiberglass deck. Then I noticed the DEET bugspray had leaked in our ziploc bag, had eaten a hole in the bag, and then in the tough coating on the fiberglass... We threw it out after that! (ETA: but we were returning to the States by then...)

Scary stuff.

I would guess that the eating through plastics is more due to the solvents (or whatever it is in there that makes the liquid evaporate quickly) in the spray than the DEET itself.

[nisi]

I would guess that the eating through plastics is more due to the solvents (or whatever it is in there that makes the liquid evaporate quickly) in the spray than the DEET itself.

Ditto. I've had similar experiences with sunscreen eating the finish off things. No DEET there.

Personally, I'm ok with using DEET sparingly. I'm not convinced it's totally safe, but I KNOW West Nile isn't. I think that if you take a few precautions, such as using the smallest concentration appropriate for your needs, applying to clothing rather than skin whenever possible, and washing exposed skin as soon as you're back indoors, then the risk of using DEET is less than the risk of West Nile. It's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

[broxbourneDELETE]

Years ago I think I browsed through the following paper on DEET showing that it is excreted in the the urine after skin application.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3489032

I would use DEET on clothing but not directly on the skin. I would not spray other so-natured natural insect repellants directly on my skin either. The original poster's article had a good point saying that DEET has been well-tested and the same is not true for a whole bunch of "natural" products.

DEET has a good chance of dissolving nail polish, and anything made of nylon too.

[UlrikeDG]

Does anything beat DEET? (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15298309&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum)"In comparison trials, DEET is more effective than any other insect repellent... Due to potential absorption through the skin, prudence would dictate that the lowest effective concentration for the time period of exposure be used. Because research has shown that solvents with less skin permeation may be used as an alternative to the ethanol used in some commercial DEET preparations, manufacturers could develop products that are less likely to be absorbed."

DEET-based insect repellents: safety implications for children and pregnant and lactating women (http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/169/3/209)"DEET-based insect repellents are relatively safe when used as recommended. The suggestion that young children are more prone than adults to the neurotoxic effects of DEET is not supported by critical evaluation of existing evidence."

(The entire study is worth reading! Note that "recommended use" for young children is no more than once a day at concentrations of no more than 10%, which is effective for only about 2-3 hours. Also, check the follow up letter: Missing information on DEET (http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/170/1/14-a) and response (http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/170/1/14-b). -U.)

Repelling properties of some plant materials on the tick Ixodes ricinus L. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16360943&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum)"The most pronounced effects were observed for the oils of citronella,cloves and lily of the valley. They possessed repelling activities of the same magnitude as the reference repellent DEET(N,N-diethyl-m-toluamide)."

Evaluation of Extracts and Oils of Mosquito (Diptera: Culicidae) Repellent Plants from Sweden and Guinea-Bissau (http://www.bioone.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1603%2F0022-2585(2006)043%5B0113%3AEOEAOO%5D2.0.CO%3B2)"In laboratory tests, ethyl acetate extracts of Hyptis suaveolens Poit. from Guinea-Bissau and Rhododendon tomentosum (Stokes) H. Harmaja (formerly Ledum palustre L.) and Myrica gale L. significantly reduced probing activity of Aedes aegypti (L.). In the field in southern Sweden, extracts of leaves of R. tomentosum, M. gale, and Achillea millefolium L. significantly reduced biting by Aedes mosquitoes."

Repellent effect of plant essential oils against Aedes albopictus. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16599157)"Six essential oils: asteraceae oil, rutaceae oil, mentha piperta oil, carvacryl oil, citronella oil, and eucalyptus oil were tested for evaluation of their repellent effects against Aedes albopictus mosquitoes under laboratory conditions. Only citronella oil and eucalyptus oil were tested with human beings. There was considerable protection for mice. Carvacryl oil (7%) provided 100% protection for mice after 7 h. Eucalyptus oil (15%) gave protection to humans for least 3 h; the protection time was prolonged to 5 h after adding 5% vanillin. The mixture could be developed into a practical product after the field evaluation."

Adult repellency and larvicidal activity of five plant essential oils against mosquitoes. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=17067055)"The larvicidal activity and repellency of 5 plant essential oils--thyme oil, catnip oil, amyris oil, eucalyptus oil, and cinnamon oil--were tested against 3 mosquito species: Aedes albopictus, Ae. aegypti, and Culex pipiens pallens... The topical repellency of these selected essential oils and deet against laboratory-reared female blood-starved Ae. albopictus was examined. Catnip oil seemed to be the most effective and provided 6-h protection at both concentrations tested (23 and 468 microg/ cm2). Thyme oil had the highest effectiveness in repelling this species, but the repellency duration was only 2 h."

Repellency of essential oils to mosquitoes (Diptera: Culicidae). (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10534958)"The repellency of different concentrations (5, 10, 25, 50, 75, and 100%) and combinations of 5 essential oils (Bourbon geranium, cedarwood, clove, peppermint, and thyme) to Aedes aegypti (L.) and Anopheles albimanus Wiedemann when applied to human skin was determined in laboratory tests. Cedarwood oil failed to repel mosquitoes and only high concentrations of peppermint oil repelled Ae. aegypti. None of the oils tested prevented mosquito bite when used at the 5 or 10% concentration. Thyme and clove oils were the most effective mosquito repellents and provided 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 h of protection, depending on oil concentration. Clove oil (50%) combined with geranium oil (50%) or with thyme oil (50%) prevented biting by An. albimanus for 1 1/4 to 2 1/2 h. The potential for using essential oils as topical mosquito repellents may be limited by user acceptability; clove, thyme, and peppermint oils can be irritating to the skin, whereas both human subjects in this study judged the odor of clove and thyme oils unacceptable at concentrations > or = 25%."

Extract of the seeds of the plant Vitex agnus castus proven to be highly efficacious as a repellent against ticks, fleas, mosquitoes and biting flies. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=pubmed&term=mosquito+extract+repel&tool=fuzzy&ot=mosquito+extract+repell)"About 70 plant extracts were tested for their ability to repel the attacks of blood-sucking arthropods. It was found that a CO2 extract of the seeds of the Mediterranean plant Vitex agnus castus (monk's pepper) can be used as a spray to keep away especially Ixodes ricinus and Rhipicephalus sanguineus ticks from animals and humans for at least 6 h. In addition mosquitoes, biting flies and fleas are also repelled for about 6 h."

Evaluation of the efficacy of 3% citronella candles and 5% citronella incense for protection against field populations of Aedes mosquitoes. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=8827606)"We assessed the efficacy of 3% citronella candles and 5% citronella incense in protecting subjects from bites of Aedes spp. under field conditions... Although significantly fewer bites were received by subjects at positions with citronella candles and incense than at nontreated locations, the overall reduction in bites provided by the citronella candles and incense was only 42.3 and 24.2%, respectively."

(This is actually better than I thought they performed. -U.)

Repellency of volatile oils from plants against three mosquito vectors. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=11469188)"Volatile oils extracted by steam distillation from four plant species (turmeric (Curcuma longa), kaffir lime (Citrus hystrix), citronella grass (Cymbopogon winterianus) and hairy basil (Ocimum americanum)), were evaluated in mosquito cages and in a large room for their repellency effects against three mosquito vectors, Aedes aegypti, Anopheles dirus and Culex quinquefasciatus. The oils from turmeric, citronella grass and hairy basil, especially with the addition of 5% vanillin, repelled the three species under cage conditions for up to eight hours. The oil from kaffir lime alone, as well as with 5% vanillin added, was effective for up to three hours. With regard to the standard repellent, deet alone provided protection for at least eight hours against Ae. aegypti and Cx. quinquefasciatus, but for six hours against An. dirus. However, deet with the addition of 5% vanillin gave protection against the three mosquito species for at least eight hours. The results of large room evaluations confirmed the responses for each repellent treatment obtained under cage conditions."

I found absolutely no evidence to back up Susun Weed's claim (http://botanical.com/site/column_susun/susun_weedwalk.html) that "A United States Army study showed yarrow tincture to be more effective than DEET at repelling ticks, mosquitoes, and sand flies." If such a study was published, I can't find it anywhere. Further, one study from Sweden (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=1768915&query_hl=39&itool=pubmed_docsum) found that mosquitoes fed on nectar from Yarrow flowers overnight, so I won't be planting yarrow in my yard.

Also, a friend of mine is a marine biologist and warns, "A caution about clove oil. It can cause cancer. It is an anesthetic for fish, but it can't be used in fish intended for human consumption because of the carcinogenic qualities of the oil." I did not research the contraindications or side effects of any of the other herbs or oils mentioned above.

Glossary:Ixodes ricinus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixodes_ricinus) - Sheep tick or castor bean tick.
Aedes aegypti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aedes_aegypti) - Yellow fever mosquito.
Hyptis suaveolens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamiaceae) - from the mint family.
Rhododendron tomentosum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhododendron_tomentosum) - Marsh Labrador Tea, Northern Labrador Tea, or Wild Rosemary.
Myrica gale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myrica_gale) - Bog-myrtle or Sweet Gale.
Achillea millefolium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achillea_millefolium) - Yarrow, Common Yarrow, Gordaldo, Nosebleed plant, Old Man's Pepper, Sanguinary, Soldier's Woundwort, Thousand-leaf, or Thousand-seal.
Aedes albopictus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aedes_albopictus) - Asian tiger mosquito or forest day mosquito.

[Morganthe]

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
@ Ulrike
:thumbsup:

I am so :dizzy: after reading all that!
Thanks so much. I am in such awe :bow:

[Patriot201]

We did use DEET when we were on our sailing trip last year (10 months to the Bahamas). But that's because we would be getting close to the tropics where malaria is more prevalent. As it turns out, two weeks after leaving Georgetown, Bahamas, and arriving in Nassau, we heard about the malaria outbreak on Georgetown - the infected folks were there when we were there... :eek:

Having said that, we had a friend visit us in the Bahamas with her family/kids and they refused to use the DEET stuff. She said years ago she was living in South America and had DEET in her backpack. It leaked and ate a hole in the backpack. We brushed off her comments and kept using it. Shortly after they left, we were clearing some of our mess off the deck of our boat and I noticed that something had eaten the finish off the fiberglass deck. Then I noticed the DEET bugspray had leaked in our ziploc bag, had eaten a hole in the bag, and then in the tough coating on the fiberglass... We threw it out after that! (ETA: but we were returning to the States by then...)

Scary stuff.

YIKES!!!!!!! I use DEET on myself when I am on the Chesapeake (I get bitten mercilessly and react pretty strongly to the bites) but I wouldn't use it on a child.

That is terrible that the fiberglass finish was eaten off your boat!!! $$$$$$$$$$$ PLUS SCARY!!!!!

[Patriot201]

one of them had the energy to invent that little credit card swiping device on every store counter today,
:)


WOW!!! That's a cool claim to fame!!!

[Patriot201]

Totally...you know they sell 100% DEET at Walmart? I mean, I'm not scared of the stuff (when used as directed), but wow, that seems... extreme...I guess that one drop on your shoe should work for a week :D


Yup. I've got some on the boat. I think mine is called "Cutter Max" or something. I use it when I know I will be around deer ticks and large numbers of mosquitos. Usually, however, I just use the "regular" stuff.

[Patriot201]

Does anything beat DEET? (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15298309&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum)


Wow, Ulrike!!! I agree with the PP-- :bow: :bow: :bow:

[solmama]

I think there is a place for everything, but DEET doesn't belong on my kids. I keep them in at dusk and we wear a non-DEET repellent when we are outside. Our gov't also approved of DDT, aldrin, dieldrin...and they killed off entire eco-systems with one application. Approval does not make a chemical okay.

[skaterbabscpst]

Approval does not make a chemical okay.

:yeahthat:

[southpawboston]

I think there is a place for everything, but DEET doesn't belong on my kids. I keep them in at dusk and we wear a non-DEET repellent when we are outside. Our gov't also approved of DDT, aldrin, dieldrin...and they killed off entire eco-systems with one application. Approval does not make a chemical okay.

right on. i work for a drug company and i have to believe in my work, but i don't have to--nor do i--believe in everything the FDA approves. ;) in fact, i'll go further and say that i downright distrust the FDA. :(

we use a natural repellant based on citrus oil (can't remember the name) that seems to work great for mosquitos and gnats, which seem to be the two things that "bug" us the most when we're in upstate NY and NH.

we've also made the switch to other natural (or safer if not totally natural) skin products... california baby consistently ranks among the the safest skin care products and we've been happy with them. i don't know if they make a bug repellant, but if they do, we'll probably try it this summer.

as for all the above posts about DEET dissolving finishes, eating holes, etc... that's not the DEET, that's the carrier/propellant. it has to be dissolved in a non-aqueous solvent so that it doesn't wash off/sweat off easily. many non-aqueous solvents have the potential to ruin finishes and dissolve plastics. that's why you have to be concerned about all the other chemicals in products... not just the active ingredients!!! :(

[Morganthe]

I keep them in at dusk and we wear a non-DEET repellent when we are outside.

I believe you're the third poster who has mentioned keeping kids in at dusk. Nothing wrong with that, if it really makes a difference. Not here. :( During last summer (it's looking to shape up that way again this year with all the rain), ANY TIME of day has LOTS of mosquitos trying to eat us. I killed 2 today that squeezed into the house and landed on my arm trying to bite me. I believe the first was at 9am. 2nd was around 3. No windows are even open. I went outside and I was swarmed by them when I took the trash out at 10 :(

Too bad they didn't know they were only supposed to appear around dusk :p

[UlrikeDG]

I think the "regular" stuff is quite effective at 30% concentrations.

[UlrikeDG]

My daughter went out to play at noon today and came in with two new mosquito bites, both of which looked rather nasty. Mosquito activity is worst at dusk, but it is not limited to dusk. I started doing all this research because my daughter had such a severe reaction to two bites a week ago. Her arm swelled from the elbow down and the swelling took over 4 days to go away. Benedryl didn't touch it!

I don't like the idea of using DEET. I'd love to find a natural, safe alternative. I'm not watching for black helicopters above my house. I don't think there's some gigantic government conspiracy to convince us all to buy DEET-containing products. Does the benefit outweigh the risk? Is there another option which will provide good protection with less risk? If there is, I want to find it! If there's not, I want to know what I can do the reduce the risk(s) DEET poses to me and my children.

I don't buy the "the government recommends it, therefore it must be bad" argument any more than I buy the "the government recommends it, therefore it must be good" argument! I'm digging, trying to find the answers. I hope they are clear! If they aren't, I'll make the best decision I can with the information I have. It may be a different decision than the one you make, even with the exact same information, but it will be based on facts, not paranoia.

[twokidstwodogs]

There was a study a while back that showed soybean oil to be quite effective at repelling mosquitoes. If I remember correctly, nothing is as effective as DEET, but the soybean oil came close to matching the lowest concentrations of DEET. We use Bite Blocker, which has soybean oil as the active ingredient, and have found that it works pretty well.

I don't think there's a one-size fits all answer. It just depends on the risks. My kids eat a diet that is about 75% organic, and we use no lawn chemicals or toxic household products. But if I lived in an area that had a lot of West Nile, I'd put DEET on my kids in a heartbeat. (But first, I'd make sure I had no standing water in my yard, and encourage my neighbors to do the same.) I use Frontline Topspot on my dogs during the summer months to repel ticks, although I have serious concerns about its safety. I do it because we live in an area with a high rate of Lyme disease, and that scares me more.

[southpawboston]

I don't think there's a one-size fits all answer. It just depends on the risks.

it also depends on the person. my dad and i used to prune trees in our woods. the mosquitos used to go right past my dad on their way to me :rolleyes: . he never even needed repellent. some repellents may synergize with one person's skin secretions but not another person's, thus working better on some people and worse on others.


I use Frontline Topspot on my dogs during the summer months to repel ticks, although I have serious concerns about its safety. I do it because we live in an area with a high rate of Lyme disease, and that scares me more.

do dogs carry the deer tick? or only dog ticks (the larger ones)? i don't have a dog, so i don't know about that, but i do know that lyme disease can only be transmitted through the deer tick.

[joolsplus3]

do dogs carry the deer tick? or only dog ticks (the larger ones)? i don't have a dog, so i don't know about that, but i do know that lyme disease can only be transmitted through the deer tick.

Looks like those little buggers will bite anything with blood, unfortunately... http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/lyme.html

[mommycat]

http://www.torontohiking.com/Tutorials/deet/deet.html

Why Use Deet?
Deet is recommended because it works. One study in Alaska revealed that DEET on the skin reduced the number of mosquito bites from a maximum of 3360 bites per hour to just 1 per hour!

Why is it the only recommended repellent?
In the summer of 2002, a study in The Journal of The American Medical Association compared DEET to other repellents. Deet widely outperformed them all.
DEET protected for about five hours
Soybean oil relents worked for only about two hours
Citronella was completely ineffective and may even have attracted mosquitoes
Eucalyptus oil-based repellents are under study but seem promising.
UPDATE: 03Jun05
The July 2005 issue of Consumer Reports finds that repellants containing 7 percent picardin as as effective as 10 percent deet. One product now on the marketplace is called Cutter Advanced. If you don’t like deet’s smell or feel on the skin, you might want to try products with 7 percent picardin.

Are there problems using DEET?
It can wreck your sunglasses and the crystal of your watch making them both cloudy as it dissolves part of the plastic. It is a potent plasticizer. So what does it do to my skin?
It does move easily though the skin and irritates mucous membranes like your eyes and lips. There have been some cases reported of serious reactions to DEET. Still these reactions add up to fewer than 50 cases over the 40 years DEET has been in widespread use.

How strong should the DEET be?
Adults should not use anything over a 30% solution. Raising the concentrations higher makes little difference in the protection. Children should be using 10% DEET solutions.

How does DEET work?
DEET works by corrupting receptors on the mosquito’s antennae. A blood seeking mosquito hones in on you by detecting three things: 1) your body heat, 2) the carbon dioxide you exhale, and 3) a variety of chemicals your body excretes on your skin, the most important of which is lactic acid. Some receptors on a female mosquito’s antennae are tuned to this lactic acid and nothing else. DEET turns off those receptors, so the nerves connected to them simply don’t fire. The shutdown of the lactic acid receptors by DEET blinds the female mosquito to our presence regardless of the carbon dioxide and the moist heat from our body.


My motto is: If too much is toxic- than a little bit is not safe, either. I think it is a neurotoxin. Sorry, that's not gonna go on my kid!

A bit off-topic, but pretty much anything is toxic at high enough concentrations. A lot of toxins are used by a lot of people daily, but they are deemed safe in low enough doses. Take winterfresh flavouring - http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2002-01/1010180128.Ns.r.html
The mint flavor one is commonly refereeing to is a wintergreen mint. There
are a number of chemicals associated with the mint flavor. One in
particularly is methyl salicylate and methanol.
The methyl salicylate is even know to give off sparks of light when you
bites down on a candy containing it.
If your interested in what the compounds do
that you put in your mouth one should check out the chemical data sheets
for such compounds and their toxic effects. Below I copied the data sheet
for methyl salicylate.
METHYL SALICYLATE
MSDS Number: M7257 --- Effective Date: 07/13/00

1. Product Identification
Synonyms: O-Hydroxybenzoic acid, methyl ester; synthetic wintergreen oil;
Betula oil; salicylic acid, methyl ester

3. Hazards Identification
Emergency Overview
--------------------------
WARNING! HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED, INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. CAUSES
IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. AFFECTS THE KIDNEYS AND
CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.


A

[UlrikeDG]

One thing I've noticed about many of the arguments about the superior effectiveness of DEET is that it "lasts longer", not that it does a better job of keeping the mosquitoes away. The fact that DEET can last 5-12 hours, depending on concentration, is interesting, but not all that relevant for the family who is going out in their backyard for 1-3 hours in the evening before bed. For many of us, a repellent that "only" lasts 2 hours is more than adequate for daily use.

For other families, a safer formula that has to be reapplied more often is worth the trade off, even during periods of extended mosquito exposure.

[Kellyr2]

California Baby does have a bug spray, and so does Kerry's Herbals. I use natural stuff, there is no DEET in my house.
My ds goes on a camping trip with my dad every year, to the Okefenokee Swamp in S GA. Last year, I sent some of his natural bug spray and anti-itch stuff. This year, right before he left, my dad jokingly said, "yeah, the bug spray he used last year worked really well..." As the smile started to spread across my face he finished up with, "yep, DEET works REALLY well!" and then laughed. I was not so amused...

[skaterbabscpst]

I agree. The stuff I use must be applied more often, but it works VERY well, and I'm a mosquito magnet. Cam will be sitting next to me, I'll be covered in bites everywhere, he'll have....two. grrrr

[southpawboston]

California Baby does have a bug spray

that's great to know... so far we've used CB sunblock stick, sunblock lotion, baby wash, and baby lotion (and love them all!), so that will be the next item in our natural skinp products toolbox :thumbsup:

[southpawboston]

A bit off-topic, but pretty much anything is toxic at high enough concentrations. A lot of toxins are used by a lot of people daily, but they are deemed safe in low enough doses. Take winterfresh flavouring -A

yes, this is true with almost anything, natural or not. many many chemicals are natural and derived from plant oils. because of the sesile (non-motile) nature of plants, they have had to evolve defense mechanisms other than motility. hence, natural chemicals that repel or even kill other organisms. it's a fascinating science, molecular evolution. :)

[twokidstwodogs]

do dogs carry the deer tick? or only dog ticks (the larger ones)? i don't have a dog, so i don't know about that, but i do know that lyme disease can only be transmitted through the deer tick.

Yes, and Lyme disease is not uncommon in dogs, though the severity varies. One of my dogs has actually tested positive for it, though we don't know if it's a relic of the one time she got the dog Lyme vaccine, or from actual disease.

When I do find ticks on my dogs, they are mostly dog ticks, but I have seen deer ticks on them, and I myself had a deer tick bite that produced a circular rash. So I'm a little Lyme leery.