New seat - brainstorming

[tiggercat]

Megan is just under 2 yrs old and hovering around 29lbs. We have 2 vehicles, a 2003 Toyota Camry in which she rides frequently, and a 1994 Toyota Corolla in which she rides a few times a month (sometimes one of us will drop her at daycare and the other pics her up, so we do need seats in both vehicles). Up until now, she has been riding rearfacing in an MA in the Camry and RF a Cosco Scenera in the Corolla.

I've just turned her forward facing this week since my MIL and FIL will be looking after the kids for the next 2 weeks while we are away and she is just about at the weight limit. The MA installs like a dream FF in both cars, but the Scenera appears to be incompatible in the Corolla FF. The long buckle stalks interfere with the belt path even when twisted down 3 full turns, but are not quite long enough to go completely in the belt path when untwisted. This is true in both outboard and middle positions.

So, we need a new seat for the Corolla and I'm at a loss for what to get. I can't justify $300 for another MA. I don't think the Radian would install well with the long buckle stalks, and I am wary about it after some conversations I've had with my instructor, the recent recall, and the company itself. A Cosco Apex might be an option, but I really dislike cosco's straps, and the Corolla does not have adjustable headrests so it might not last us. I know from experience that the Evenflo Express is incompatible in all rear seating locations, and the Graco Cargo only works in the middle and the buckle is right in the middle of the child's back.

Am I missing any other viable options available in Canada?

[snowbird25ca]

Would an Evenflo Bolero work?

How flexible and how long are your buckle stalks and are they forward of the seat bite? Sunshine Kids allows the buckle stalks to be inside the belt path on the Radian and I've read that long buckle stalks that aren't forward of the seat bite can be great for installing the radian. I really think it's worth a try since you'd get the higher harness weight out of it.

Out of curiousity, what did your instructor say about the Radian?

I honestly have no concerns about the recall since it was handled so smoothly and quickly and there haven't been any injuries - even TC has said that the benefits of using the current safestop outweigh any potential risk of the small increased head excursion. And the increased head excursion only happened in 3yr old AMD's (Crash test dummmy,) and none of the other age/weight AMD's, so a child of a different size and weight would have absolutely zero risk.

Considering that companies like Evenflo and Cosco are often so hesitant to do voluntary recalls and wait until numerous kids are injured and they're actually pushed into a recall by the government, I find sunshine kids doing this to be a really encouraging sign of a company who cares about safety for kids.

Granted I disagree with the mighty tite & it somewhat bugs me that they market an aftermarket product... but I have heard techs say that in limited cases and if used properly (ie not over-tightened,) it can serve a useful purpose in rare instances. And other car seat manufacturers market after market products too...

Sorry I got off on a bit of a tangent. :o



One other thing - on the days that your dh is picking up your dd, do you know ahead of time? Could you use the scenera in your car on those days and put the marathon in his car? The marathon is pretty easy to move between cars, so if you knew ahead of time, you could just put the scenera in your car and move the MA to dh's car for that day and just leave the scenera in the garage the rest of the time.

[snowbird25ca]

Oh, and you could always buy a radian to use in your car - since it has LATCH, it'd be a pretty good bet that you'd get a good install. And then you could have the MA in dh's car. The radian is a nice seat and she'd be comfy in it too, so would do fine as a primary seat provided you could get a good install and it fit your dd well.

[Namegirl]

Just wanted to say HI! I know you--I'm from the Delphi NFP board... :-)

[tiggercat]

[/COLOR]I'll reply in the quote. Ok, that didn't work so well.
Would an Evenflo Bolero work?

I haven't tried a bolero, isn't it very similar to the Evenflo express belt path?

How flexible and how long are your buckle stalks and are they forward of the seat bite?

They are pretty flexible, but twisting them doesn't seem to shorten them very much. I could measure.

Out of curiousity, what did your instructor say about the Radian?

She's not allowed to say too much about individual seats, but she did tell me that she had some concerns about it and that it was not doing well in crash tests at higher weights. She also told me about the recall ahead of time and urged me to wait until the fixes were out.

Considering that companies like Evenflo and Cosco are often so hesitant to do voluntary recalls and wait until numerous kids are injured and they're actually pushed into a recall by the government, I find sunshine kids doing this to be a really encouraging sign of a company who cares about safety for kids.

I agree about the handling of the recall, it was quick and smooth. But, they continue to sell that junk that I have to remove from vehicle after vehicle at clinics, and the mighty tite is a big issue for me. That should absolutely not be on the market. How can I trust a company that sells something so unsafe with my child's safety? At least with Graco I know they test their products. I have written to Cosco several times, and dislike that they sell aftermarket products as well.

One other thing - on the days that your dh is picking up your dd, do you know ahead of time?

I think we will know most of the time, but I don't want to get caught without a seat. And it would be a pain for me to have to move it several times a week sometimes. And I really, really dislike the Scenera. I don't want it in my car ;-)

[tiggercat]

Oh, and you could always buy a radian to use in your car - since it has LATCH, it'd be a pretty good bet that you'd get a good install. And then you could have the MA in dh's car. The radian is a nice seat and she'd be comfy in it too, so would do fine as a primary seat provided you could get a good install and it fit your dd well.

But I love my cowmoo MA. I don't want to give it to him. LOL

[tiggercat]

Just wanted to say HI! I know you--I'm from the Delphi NFP board... :-)

I recognize you as well ;-) I'm more of a lurker on this board.

[snowbird25ca]

But I love my cowmoo MA. I don't want to give it to him. LOL

LOL, I love my cowmoo too.

I'm not sure about the belt path on the Bolero vs the Express. I've looked at the Bolero a lot, but I'm not familiar with the Express.

She's not allowed to say too much about individual seats, but she did tell me that she had some concerns about it and that it was not doing well in crash tests at higher weights. She also told me about the recall ahead of time and urged me to wait until the fixes were out.

This strikes me as a bit funny because it really seems to contradict what transport canada's release said about continuing to use the safestop until the new ones arrived. They're shipping in the next few weeks anyways though, so that wouldn't be a long term issue...

Transport Canada's release also said that the only dummy that the test results were outside of the limits were with the 3yr old one and it sounded like they did dynamic testing with all the AMD's that fit within the limits of the seat. They also mentioned that the amount the head excursion was over, was minimal enough that in the majority of crashes it posed no increased safety risk.


I agree about the handling of the recall, it was quick and smooth. But, they continue to sell that junk that I have to remove from vehicle after vehicle at clinics, and the mighty tite is a big issue for me. That should absolutely not be on the market. How can I trust a company that sells something so unsafe with my child's safety? At least with Graco I know they test their products. I have written to Cosco several times, and dislike that they sell aftermarket products as well.

Just to play devil's advocate. ;) Sunshine Kids crash tests their after market products too - the thing is, that there is no standardized testing for after market products. Although I do know that Graco's shoulder pads are crash tested with the snugride and the snugride still met standards. They're not supposed to be used with the SS1 though according to their site.

I posed the question asking about SKJP and after market products, and reliability of the Radian as a result, and the general concensus was that while they didn't believe in the after market products, the seat was still safe and they wouldn't boycott the company because of it. And surprisingly enough, not every single tech said to avoid the mighty-tite at all costs. Which kind of surprised me. I think the thread has been archived though because I don't think it's showing in my list of posts... maybe doing a search might turn something up?

Anyways, obviously it's comfort factor and I understand the prinicple of not being sure if you can trust a company who markets aftermarket products. I wouldn't base the decision on what your instructor said alone though, just because it doesn't mesh 100% with what transport canada's bulletin said. And I'd think that they'd have been clear about it if they had concerns beyond the 3yo AMD results. Especially since it was found when they were doing compliance testing. :twocents:

(And hey, who knows if the radian would even fit in your car...lol, I really liked it for the brief time we had it though... we just decided to get the SS1 to be able to have ds in a carrier longer so returned the radian - we may buy it again once he outgrows the SS1, but it'll depend on if some new seats show up in the meantime.) :whistle:

[tiggercat]

My instructor is actually a defect investigator for TC. I take what she says with a grain of salt, since she is not a fan of Britax at.all. but she definitely encouraged me to think about other alternatives to the Radian. I'm not saying I won't ever use one, just that I'm a bit wary and would like them to be out a while longer before feeling comfortable with them.

Do we officially have a dummy bigger than the 3 yr old? I thought that was part of the problem with developing certification tests to the higher weight limits?

I just can't believe that ratcheting up slack in the belt around a piece of plastic is really a good idea in any circumstances. If it breaks or comes loose you have excess webbing coming loose. I also believe that sometimes shoving a square peg in a round hole by forcing it tight with artifical means is not a good idea.

The Radian does fit well in the Camry FF with UAS outboard and the seatbelt RFing in the center. That's all I've had time to try out.

[snowbird25ca]

My instructor is actually a defect investigator for TC. I take what she says with a grain of salt, since she is not a fan of Britax at.all. but she definitely encouraged me to think about other alternatives to the Radian. I'm not saying I won't ever use one, just that I'm a bit wary and would like them to be out a while longer before feeling comfortable with them.

Do we officially have a dummy bigger than the 3 yr old? I thought that was part of the problem with developing certification tests to the higher weight limits?

I just can't believe that ratcheting up slack in the belt around a piece of plastic is really a good idea in any circumstances. If it breaks or comes loose you have excess webbing coming loose. I also believe that sometimes shoving a square peg in a round hole by forcing it tight with artifical means is not a good idea.

The Radian does fit well in the Camry FF with UAS outboard and the seatbelt RFing in the center. That's all I've had time to try out.

Hmmm, I'm not sure about the specs of the 3yr old dummy. I'd have figured we had a higher weighted one since most 3yr olds don't weight 40lbs and seats are tested to 40lbs. :confused:

I agree that the ratcheting up slack in the belt doesn't seem like a good idea. I certainly don't advocate the mighty-tite and would tell folks to not use it. I have seen techs say they're ok in limited circumstances though and if used with caution. :confused:

That's interesting what your instructor was saying about being a defect investigator. And that she's not a fan of britax seats either. I guess when it comes down to it though, it's certified for passing CMVSS & if there were other problems found, there'd be a recall involved in that too I'd think...

Not sure if you've seen it or not, but here's the link to transport canada's safety notice on the radian & the part that mentions the specifics of the problem:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/childsafety/notices/tp14566P/2007p02/menu.htm

Under routine dynamic sled tests conducted as part of Transport Canada’s compliance-testing program, it was found that, in some tests using a forward-facing three-year-old child anthropomorphic test device (ATD), the SafeStop load-limiting device allowed a portion of the head of the ATD to slightly exceed the 720-mm forward excursion limit specified in Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (CMVSS) 213 – Child Restraint Systems. In all other configurations using the three-year-old child ATD or any other ATD, these restraint system models otherwise met all applicable dynamic testing requirements of both CMVSS 213 and 213.1 – Infant Restraint Systems.