Can you believe this? Those TN teachers are horrid-crazy

[broxbourneDELETE]

There has got to be something criminal in what they've done:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070513/ap_on_re_us/faked_attack

[chaoticoctopus]

:eek: OMG, I can't believe they would think that was OK!!! My kids recently had a drill, which normally would have been unannounced, but in light of the VATech tragedy they called every family in the school to let the kids know it was coming up, that it was only a drill. Then the day of the drill, it was basically a fake lockdown where the scenario was that a stranger was on campus without clearance. Nobody threatening them with a non-existent GUN!! :mad: :thumbsdown:

[Connor's Mom]

This also out this morning. Substitute teacher showed "Broke Back Mountain" to 8 year olds.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,271935,00.html

Why would anyone think that this is OK or a good deal in either situation.

[amy919]

Both of those things are just plain crazy. I would be furious if that was my child. What in the world were they thinking?!?

Amy

[broken4u05]

I heard about the first not the 2nd. wow to both though. We have had drills before. I think we were told before hand about some and not others. But they would have code red drills and even have someone come around to doors and nock on them and set off alarms and everything. We have had some real codes though too. someone did bring a gun to school didnt do anything but we had to stay in your rooms till the cops came and than notes to parents given out.. But this is high school. I do not think they would do the drills like that in middle school. and than this is just wrong to do at any age. Like the person on the radio this morning if i was a parent to one of the kids i would be getting everyone involed fired.. just wrong

[flipper68]

Contrary to popular opinion, elementary schools HAVE to do code red drills. We also have fire drills and tornado drills. Several of the school shootings did occur at elementary school. Then there are custody disputes, parents with mental illness, and weirdos in the neighborhood. I haven't seen/read about the "fake attack," but at my school (K-5) we practiced 'code red' 2-3 times a year and it should have been more (so the STAFF knew what/how to do things). We also had a real 'code red' last spring when an inmate escaped the local correctional facility. Another thing to consider is overall school design - with the circular/open/"pod" design that was/is popular, it is almost impossible to insure some areas of the building are secure because once you round a corner, there are 3-4 options to move from there. Same with where the school office is located compared to the main doors - can the office see the doors? We also had the issue of students in portable classrooms that needed access to the main building - how do you keep the outer doors locked/secure when there is a constant stream of students moving in/out? How do you maintain the idea/perception/policy of parents/visitors are welcome and at the same time keep the building secure? In developing code red procedure, there are so many things to consider: Beginning with what is considered a 'code red'? How do you account for all of the students and staff? Are there kids in the bathrooms or other public spaces? Are there students outside for recess or PE? ow do you communicate with staff w/o alarming the students? How do you notify parents? [We ended up having all students dismissed that day into the hands of an adult. Amazingly, with 750 students, there were less than 2 dozen students waiting for adults 30 minutes after dismissal.] What about parents waiting outside for children at dismissal - are they in danger? IMO - more students were stressed by fire/tornado drills because of the loud signals than by a code red drill. But again, I haven't seen details about the drill in question.

[Knittingfor4]

Well, that's public schools for ya. Crazy! I wouldn't send a dog to public school :thumbsdown: There'll be lawsuits for sure, but I'm not sure the movie one will go anywhere in this backward society. Some idiot judge will probably say it was good for the kids :confused:

[papooses]

I can understand the need for these code red drills, but I can also see them being rather traumatic for the kids -- IMO, the adults should have one version, the kids a toned down one.... I'm also remembering kids being frightened during basic fire drills & someone got trampled in my Middle School, had to go to the hospital :( GUNS? wow, just wow. I'd actually think that "normalizes" the presence of guns rather than detering them.

& Broke Back Mountain -- wow, I haven't seen it yet, but the adults I know who saw it before hearing the storyline were shocked (not in a bad way, necessarily, just surprised because they didn't expect it). I can't get that link to work, but goodness, aren't there supposed to be signed waivers for anything shown at elementary schools containing any form of sexual content?

[amy919]

My boss' son's school goes to a very expensive private school. They sent home a note a few months ago advising the parents that they would having a similar kind of drill. The parents freaked out and they ended up cancelling it. Obviously, these parents were not informed ahead of time. What this particular school ended up doing was performing a drill for the staff only when the kids were off for an in-service day. That made much more sense to me. As much as I think it's important that the kids be aware of these types of situations, I want to make sure the people I'm trusting to care for them know what to do.

Amy

[broken4u05]

Ok there are drills where over the speakers they say this is a code red than a code only the school knows and than there is this:

During the last night of the trip, staff members convinced the 69 students that there was a gunman on the loose. They were told to lie on the floor or hide underneath tables and stay quiet. A teacher, disguised in a hooded sweat shirt, even pulled on locked door.

Never in my school when we had drills did they tell us that there was someone in the school or anything.. After the code is done they say the code again and after 5 mins they say what happened.. If we passed or failed or if it was for real.

They did not just say hey this is a code red they scared the kids out of their minds.

[Morganthe]

I can easily understand the need for 'Code Red' drills. My mother & I went through similar types of drills for Nuclear attacks. Yeah, pretty much useless to hide under desks, but it helped make everyone feel better :rolleyes: We also did Earthquake drills too.

What I would like to know is WHAT IDIOT decided this would be ok on a FIELD TRIP to a State Park? :eek: It's not even on school property. I remember being on one of the last week long trips to camp in 6th grade to the Cascades before they dropped the program due to budget & liability issues.
At 12 years old, adults telling me that something was not a drill, happening at night, and being scared out of my wits would have definitely affected me. Forget going to sleep that night, or any other nights. Then to find the adults in authority LIED?? Shame on them!

And Broke Back Mountain to 8 year olds? :eek: Has someone completely lost their wits or what? I've seen the film. While I appreciated a lot about it, I cannot recomend it to young people or even my elderly parents.
It is a Hard "R" rated movie with a bit of nudity, suggestive sexual activity enough to know what's going on, and a subject matter that is very emotionally complex. I wouldn't have shown it to seniors in high school unlike Schindler's List. There's absolutely no context where it could be viewed in public school.

Perhaps the film could be shown in college for certain subjects. I'm not sure what, but probably something with social history, filmography, or even social development. Same thing with that "Drill" too. Just like the proverbial incident in a Criminal Justice or Sociology class where a suspect races in, causes some sort of chaos threatening someone and then departing suddenly. Now THAT teaches students how unreliable witnesses can be to details, minor or major details of a crime scene.

Neither are experiences that children need to be subject to. I'm so sorry for both sets of kids :(

[broken4u05]

yeah i love the movie brokeback.. But i would never let kids watch it..

[Loves2sing]

Okay first of all, what good would come out of showing Brokeback mountain? If she was showing it to promote tolerance to homosexuals, then she's a moron. There are way better ways to promote tolerance without showing a group of kids a very sexual movie. I would be outraged, and my dd would be finding a new school. And her comment of what happens in Ms. whatever's class stays in her class? What an idiot. If you feel the need to say something like that because you are scared the kids will tell their parents, then you know you are doing something wrong. Any thing ANY adult does around ANY kid should be clean enough, that said kid could tell any other adult about it with out the other adults getting upset. Kwim?

And the drill? I don't see how that drill taught those kids anything but a fear of their teachers and fellow classmates. The teachers should be invovled in training for that, but it is not up to them to decide that they have the right to put my child through that mental turmoil. Those poor kids. What a bunch of jerks. Did they truly think that they were teaching these kids a valuable lesson, or did they think it would be funny? I would like to hear the teacher's reasoning. Bad judgment on their part for sure!

[broxbourneDELETE]

And her comment of what happens in Ms. whatever's class stays in her class? What an idiot. If you feel the need to say something like that because you are scared the kids will tell their parents, then you know you are doing something wrong. Any thing ANY adult does around ANY kid should be clean enough, that said kid could tell any other adult about it with out the other adults getting upset. Kwim?


Ms. Buford.
Ms. Buford.

Remember her name in case a new sub shows up in your school.

Telling a child to keep a secret is wrong and creepy. I routinely tell my son that he is never, ever to keep any secrets from mommy and daddy. I use examples like, "If Miss Joanna from pre-school told you not to tell mommy something, come home and tell mommy anyway. If our neighbor Mr. Smith tells you not to tell mommy something, come home and tell mommy anyway. If Aunt Karen tell you not to tell mommy something, come home and tell mommy anyway. No secrets from mommy, not from Aunt Karen, or Miss Joanna or anybody." I do not really suspect these people of anything. I threw in the name of an aunt to illustrate that if he would tell me a secret from someone as dear as an aunt, then he would sure tell me a secret from anyone else. I guess I will never have a surprise party but I can live with that

[Loves2sing]

If my teaching my child NOT to keep secrets from me keeps me from having any surprises, then so be it. If Dh wants to surprise me, don't tell Jenna then. I completley agree that our kids should not be taught to have secrets from us, that is how sexual abuse keeps going on for years. My parents taught me to tell them everything, and my big mouth saved me from the on going horrors my sister went through at the hands of our much older cousin. If he had not overheard me spilling "our little secret", I don't know what he would have done to me, well, actually I do, cause he did it to my sister. But I thank God all the time that I listened to my parents about that. My sister didn't want to get our cousin into trouble, so she kept quiet. Now as an adult, I know that she regrets her childish mistakes, and will forever.

[Knittingfor4]

That secret thing is sad. My ds teacher told the kids to keep the M-day drawings a secret and he did, then after he gave it me he told us that he had to keep it a secret. I didn't think anything of it. But things are soo messed up today. I heard a call on Dr. Laura last week about a grandma who was in a bathroom sneaking a granola bar and her granddaughter, about 3, came in and begged for some. Grandma gave her a piece and told her not to tell the other KIDS because there wasn't enough. The mother grabbed the girl as soon as she came out of the bathroom and grilled her. The girl was crying and said grandma told her not to tell. Now they won't speak to Grandma and she can't see the girl :thumbsdown: Crazy!

[papooses]

There's a book about Telling vs. Tattling / Secrets vs. Surprises -- I'll have to find mine to remember exactly, but it's framed with questions to get kids to think....

[Loves2sing]

I think just to make it easier for the kids, no secrets should be allowed. When you give them gray areas, it just confuses them. I would rather play it safe.

[Shelsy]

NOt that it makes much difference, but the movie was shown to 8th graders (not 8 year olds). Still, that Ms. Buferd has some nerve.

The drill story is really disturbing to me. Imagine the emotional scars, and for the supposedly good reason of preparing them In Case Something Bad Happens. The logic!

[papooses]

I think just to make it easier for the kids, no secrets should be allowed. When you give them gray areas, it just confuses them. I would rather play it safe.I hear you -- except knowing the difference helps kids not take the blame upon themselves when someone does something bad to them....

I was molested between the ages of 4-6 years old. My parents were big on no secrets, always tell them if someone ever tried to touch my "privates", etc. Perpetrators are so d@mned sneaky, though. I tried to tell, but like many kids all I could figure out how to say was "he's yucky" (& I was in a "gifted" school). About 1/6 boys & 1/4 girls are sexually abused in some way & over 90% of the perps are trusted family members or friends. I get it. Believe me, do I get it. I know how even those few episodes during that relatively brief timeframe can mess a person's sexuality & sense of self up for a long long time.

But, "no secrets at all" is a potentially dangerous method that does not teach kids to think about which situations are harmful & how to most effectively cope with it. It can cause kids to let fear fester because they feel like they're expected to set things to right. Telling is an important part of protection, don't get me wrong, but the MOST important thing is for kids to understand that it's the GROWN UPS' responsibility to set things right. Getting mom a gift is a surprise, not a secret. It's OK to tell mom you have a surprise gift, but it's also OK to wait to let her find out what it is. Pretending there aren't any gray areas is what actually leads to more confusion. If a child feels like something just isn't right, then they should simply feel SAFE ENOUGH to tell over & over again. Not only with mommy, but every other adult in the child's life, too. Repeatedly. Mommy can't be the only one a child can trust to tell such fears. What does tell mean, exactly? Should a kid who develops the coping mechanism of tuning the incident out, leaving reality for a dream state, be expected to verbalize the details? Is that honestly a reasonable expectation? Women survivors of rape often can't do this, let alone children with such minimal vocabulary. There are gray areas of safety & gray areas of abuse. It's not all black & white. It just isn't.

The books I'm talking about are standard issue for kids in the foster system & at advocacy centers for women & children seeking help for abusive situations, written by professionals who dedicate their lives to helping heal & prevent child abuses.

[papooses]

Bad logic, indeed.

8th grade -- well, better than 8 years old ... but still :confused: :thumbsdown:

[BrookeSLP]

Gives me more fuel as to why my kids will be homeschooled.

[BABYGIRLLYNDSEY]

It's a shame that bad decisions in some public schools make people think that all public schools are bad. My husband is a 6th grade teacher in a public school that has about 500 students. That is K through 6th grade. All of our children (except Karley, she's only 22 mo) have attended or are currently attending this school. It is a wonderful school in a small town with caring dedicated teachers. We also have a small private school in our town. It is nice but lacks many things in academics/sports/social that our public school has. They just don't have the funding that the public school has. Just don't want people to think that all public schools are crappy because they aren't. :thumbsup:

[BrookeSLP]

It's a shame that bad decisions in some public schools make people think that all public schools are bad. My husband is a 6th grade teacher in a public school that has about 500 students. That is K through 6th grade. All of our children (except Karley, she's only 22 mo) have attended or are currently attending this school. It is a wonderful school in a small town with caring dedicated teachers. We also have a small private school in our town. It is nice but lacks many things in academics/sports/social that our public school has. They just don't have the funding that the public school has. Just don't want people to think that all public schools are crappy because they aren't. :thumbsup:

I do agree with you that not all public schools are bad. I've worked in 12 different schools in several different systems as a speech pathologist and seen many very good teachers. My biggest beef with public and private school is the amount of time they waste. I can teach my child in about 1.5 hours the same thing (or more) than a 'regular' school can in a 7 hour day. That leaves us so much more time to do the fun stuff!

[broken4u05]

I love public schools and will send my kids to them. Some of the best times of my life. I did so many things.. I was in a very big school to. I think my graduating class was almost 1,000.. I think Our class was one of the biggest ever though.

[Patriot201]

Well, that's public schools for ya. Crazy! I wouldn't send a dog to public school :thumbsdown:

I teach at a public school and my school is an outstanding school. Our teachers are truly top-notch, our administration is excellent, and our students are the very best. I am PROUD to say I teach public school.

[Patriot201]

It's a shame that bad decisions in some public schools make people think that all public schools are bad..... Just don't want people to think that all public schools are crappy because they aren't. :thumbsup:

:yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat:

[Morganthe]

Proportionately, there are just as many stupid teachers and policies in private schools as there are in public. It's kept much quieter and if there is an issue, lawsuits are either settled or dismissed.

While I disagree with the showing of the film, I think that the lawsuit for $500,000 is RIDICULOUS! Alrighty, the 8th grade girl needs counseling, but really... that can buy years of treatment. Not something that particular movie warrants.
When Natural Born Killers came out years ago, dh & I shared the theater with multiple families with lots of children younger than 9 in the audience. NOW those kids NEED therapy after that film.:eek: While BBM is definitely for adults, it's a very quiet film with lots of gorgeous scenery, angst, and deep emotional themes. A GOOD psychologist can work out these adult issues within a couple of sessions. It's really nothing that's worth $500,000!!!

All the grandparents are out to do is 'teach' the school district a lesson & make a buck :mad: :mad: Taxpayers will bear the brunt of this. If I lived there locally or in the State, I'd be hopping mad! :mad:

[mamato2]

According to an article dh read in NYT this am the whole 'drill' thing was a PRANK, for FUN!!!! Heads should roll for this :mad: .
C.

[papooses]

It's a shame that bad decisions in some public schools make people think that all public schools are bad.

Just don't want people to think that all public schools are crappy because they aren't. :thumbsup:

Right on. It really comes down to the fit of the individual child with the teacher and/or policies. This goes for public, private, charter, home, etc. Some kids are better off in public school than at home, but my kid will be better off at home. She was worse off at the private school than the public school. Each kid, each parent, each teacher, each school is different :blah blah blah: ;)

[TheRealMacGyver]

When Natural Born Killers came out years ago, dh & I shared the theater with multiple families with lots of children younger than 9 in the audience.

I think that was the only movie that I stopped watching about a half hour into it. Completely senseless, horrific killing. That was about all the movie was, at least what I saw of it. Waste of film. The other bad movie was Lost in Translation-um, yeh, lost in something that's for sure!

Anyhow, let me re-focus here. As a teacher it pains me everytime this sort of story hits the news, because it always triggers people to give the "ah-hah see, this is what is going on in public schools". Please remember that these sorts of things are isolated instances that do not happen everyday in every school. I think it is also worth mentioning that teachers, and everyone else that works in schools, are mostly really good people that are doing a job that many people wouldn't do for twice the pay. Many times people like to comment that is must be fun teaching, and while it can be fun at times, there are days that I've worked harder than I did in corporate America, where I made 2-3 times more money. I always ask people that have comments like this, "when is the last time you locked yourself in a room with 22 ten year olds?" That usually puts it into perspective. :D

Human beings can and do make poor decisions, but if you serve the public, those poor decisions could be the end of your career. Lately it seems people are fast to pounce on those that make mistakes. There is no doubt that both of these cases involved poor judgement, but just what consequences do they warrant? My :twocents:

[papooses]

I actually like that movie.... A therapeutic release when I'm feeling really pissed off -- watching a movie is better than taking my anger out on others :cool: But never in a million years would I let a CHILD watch it :eek: *duh* @@

From what I hear, I'd have no problem letting a kid watch Brokeback Mountain with the sexual scenes edited out.

Law suites are just outrageous in our culture :twocents:

[Morganthe]

Anyhow, let me re-focus here. As a teacher it pains me everytime this sort of story hits the news, because it always triggers people to give the "ah-hah see, this is what is going on in public schools". Please remember that these sorts of things are isolated instances that do not happen everyday in every school. I think it is also worth mentioning that teachers, and everyone else that works in schools, are mostly really good people that are doing a job that many people wouldn't do for twice the pay. Many times people like to comment that is must be fun teaching, and while it can be fun at times, there are days that I've worked harder than I did in corporate America, where I made 2-3 times more money. I always ask people that have comments like this, "when is the last time you locked yourself in a room with 22 ten year olds?" That usually puts it into perspective. :D

Human beings can and do make poor decisions, but if you serve the public, those poor decisions could be the end of your career. Lately it seems people are fast to pounce on those that make mistakes. There is no doubt that both of these cases involved poor judgement, but just what consequences do they warrant? My :twocents:

I worked as a substitute teacher for one year in NM at $42 a day with an associate's degree. When I completed my bachelor's, I got a whopping $2 a day pay raise. Those rare days that I worked in the Elementary school on base & middle school downtown, IT WAS NOT WORTH IT! I enjoyed high school namely because there was some down time to just have a breather. Elementary teachers completely have my admiration. My dad taught combined grades for 28 years and I don't know how he did it. He had such a short temper at home :confused: ;)

Working as a sub at DODDS had much better pay & working conditions. I did it for about 4 years. But I don't think I"d go back by choice. A substitute teacher is such a grey area. No one ever appreciates one -- students, full time teachers, administration... even the public. I was told by the USO director when I left that minimum wage position for subbing again, "Oh, you're just going to be an overpaid babysitter, right?".
And that last year was rough due to administration issues. If I hadn't had a high risk pregnancy, I would not have returned anyway. Oh well, just memories now :)

I respect teachers. It's a chaotic occupation. And one that I could never do full time without losing what's left of my mind! It's on par with motherhood, but with no rights and multiple kids of all the same age range!

I read that article in NY Times too. IMO, whoever had the original idea of doing this 'prank' should be fired and let that be an end to it. Assistant principle or the teacher, don't know who decided this would be a great idea :rolleyes: No lawsuits and a LOT of trust building exercises between students & facility.
But that's just my humble opinion, as usual ;)

[broxbourneDELETE]

There is no doubt that both of these cases involved poor judgement, but just what consequences do they warrant? My :twocents:

As I mentioned in the OP, I believe the fake attack was a criminal offense. False imprisonment for one. Imagine if one of those children managed ot call the Park Ranger who came in guns drawn. They created a very dangerous situation.

The other reason I wrote to talk about the topic of secret-keeping:

But, "no secrets at all" is a potentially dangerous method that does not teach kids to think about which situations are harmful & how to most effectively cope with it. It can cause kids to let fear fester because they feel like they're expected to set things to right.

I was very sad to read about your childhood experiences. I thought about the above all night since it was the last thing I read b/f going to sleep.

Two things I want to say about our simple rules:

1) "Stranger Safety" is a good DVD to own and watch with your child. It was produced by the Baby Einstein lady and John Walsh (America's Most Wanted).

The word "stranger" does not appear in the video but a funny/friendly superhero called Safe Side Superchick is all over it. It divides people into 3 groups: People You Know, People You Kinda Know, and Don't-Knows and poses many real scenarios which could occur involving any of these. It is not scary at all.

You have to see it to understand the value of the likely scenarios it presents. In doing so, it educates both the parent and child. The reason I bring it up is that in many of these scenarios, the child definitely bears the burden of responsibility for identifying and getting out of an immediately dangerous situation *before anything happens*, or avoiding a potentially threatening one.

This is not to say that you can just drop your child off in the food court ay the mall and go shopping and believe his/her video watching will make things safe enough. It is to say that there will be moments when even the most devoted and sensitive parent/caregiver can be distracted, or times when the child is at school or momentarily separated from the parent and needs to make a quick decision on what is the safest thing to do.

This video aims to teach that child to act in that moment to get away from something unknown. Please note that I did not say "teaches the child to get away from something that feels wrong" There is very little feeling-out of situations. For example, a most helpful thing in it was for us to identify 3 other "Safe Side Adults" that he is allowed to go with if for any reason mommy or daddy aren't there. There are no exceptions to this rule. Unless they are defined as a safe side adult, a soccer coach or even a neighbor should not try to get you to go with him because "your mom called and said there is an emergency." The child is not to try to rationalize the Kinda-Knows argument and to come to terms and then decide. The child is to immediately and automatically leave that situation without much ado, or, if need be, start yelling for help.

2) A long time ago I read a book written by a veteran police captain or vice sqaud chief on child molesters and children. The one thing that stuck out to me was a statement he made in the beginning, something along the lines of: "If I walk into a classroom, I can spot the child or children who is the easiest candidate for sexual abuse. It is the child who looks vacant or out of sorts, and the one that can be most easily separated from the crowd. If I can spot this, then so can someone else."

What I extracted from all this is that 1) ease of separation from a safe adult is where it all starts and 2)my sons will always have a plan, even if it is a simple plan. Our simple plans make for simple rules.

I'm sorry to have gone on and on about this; this subject matter is vital to me and I know that those stats provided are true. (Every month or so, I look at the photo database of sexual offenders in our area to see if anything has changed. 99.9% of them are men. Since I do not meet alot of men as a SAHM, when I do and get a strange feeling around any man, I heed that feeling. Most recently, I recognized one of them working at Whole Foods pushing some baked goods around on a cart, and just immediately left) I will look at some of those references provided by papooses too.

[Loves2sing]

Papooses:

I get what you are saying completley, and I never really thought of it in that way. You made some really good points. I just want to clarify that I wasn't trying to put down what you were saying before, I was just putting in my :twocents: . But after reading your responce, I am totally interested in the book you were refering to. Do you have the title and author? I would love to look into it. This is something I have been stressing about every since the Ultrasound tech said, "it's a girl!" I pray that Jenna will never be in the situation, but I want to be prepared. KWIM? Same as with carseats, I never want an accident, but if I have one, I want Jenna safe.

As for public schools. The designated public school in my area would be busing Jenna to an area of the city that I don't ever want her in. If we could send her to the public school I went to, and where my nieces go I would in a heartbeat. But we don't live anywhere close to there anymore. That is a major reason we are moving to the small town where dh grew up. They have a fantastic public school system, where many of the same teachers that taught dh still teach, and there are a few of dh's friends who teach there as well. It completley depends on the school. Keeping in mind though, that the Brokeback thing was with a substitute.

[papooses]

1) "Stranger Safety" is a good DVD to own and watch with your child. It was produced by the Baby Einstein lady and John Walsh (America's Most Wanted).

The word "stranger" does not appear in the video but a funny/friendly superhero called Safe Side Superchick is all over it. It divides people into 3 groups: People You Know, People You Kinda Know, and Don't-Knows That does sound pretty good ... it's important that kids understand not ALL strangers are a potential threat: some are safety resources. If you become separated at the mall, kiddo should know to go to a cashier to call mom over the speaker system, etc. Here are a couple of the books I mentioned >

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SJ8DCap1L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/Safe-Child-Book-Commonsense-Protecting/dp/0684814234/ref=sr_1_1/002-0644621-0392852?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179248748&sr=1-1) http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ERZJA2GFL._AA240_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/Telling-Isnt-Tattling-Kathryn-Hammerseng/dp/1884734065/ref=sr_1_2/002-0644621-0392852?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179248866&sr=1-2)
The 1st is more detailed & teaches parents how to creat their own questions to get kids thinking about how to stay safe, what to look for, where to go, who to go to, etc. The other is really basic, meatn for kids but without any color so I let Leila color the pictures in herself & I think of it as a stepping stone to learning how to adapt the conversational questions with more realistic situations for kids. There are a few more basic ones kinda like this, standard free stuff for organizations to give families, but I'm nor sure where ours are since I've only "relied" on the Safe Child Book.

[Loves2sing]

Thank you so much Papooses! I honestly feel like I have had my eyes opened. I never even thought of the whole self blaming issue, until you brought it up. I really wonder what my sister has gone through on her side of it all now. I pray that you have healed, as much as possible, from your expiriences, and that you would never have to face this issue again. Thanks for using your horrid expirience to help the rest of us! God Bless!:thanx!:

[papooses]

Aw, I certainly didn't mean for you to feel bad about anything! Especially not what I've experienced -- I do tend to get pushy/defensive on this so I hope I didn't come off that way....

I'm glad to help in any way I can, but please know I fully believe that you're the only one who knows how to put any safety information to use for your own family ;)

[Loves2sing]

I don't fell bad, in a guilty way anyway. I just feel more compassion for my sister, and for you that there was another whole underlying issue on top of the abuse. You guys are heros that you have survived and moved on!

[UlrikeDG]

Someone mentioned this above...

School district says fake gun attack was a prank (http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05/16/faked.attack.ap/index.html)
POSTED: 10:09 p.m. EDT, May 16, 2007

A teacher and assistant principal who frightened sixth-grade students on a class trip by telling them a gunman was on the loose were staging a prank, a spokeswoman for the schools said.

The school district's statement reversed earlier statements by the assistant principal that it was planned as a learning experience.

Teacher Quentin Mastin came up with the prank, said Murfreesboro City School District spokeswoman Cheryl Harris. It was his turn to tell a scary story to 69 sixth-graders from Scales Elementary School who were on a weeklong trip at Fall Creek Falls State Park.

He decided to pretend there was someone shooting a gun...

[TheRealMacGyver]

Wow! Yeh, I don't think it really maters as to whether it was a prank or a drill, it was just pretty stupid altogether. They crossed the line here.

Whenever we have drills, we always know about it ahead of time. Sometimes, usually just in the beginning of the year, I will tell the students ahead of time that we will be having a drill. If they don't know it's a drill, that is the first question they ask. In cases when I wasn't notified (it happens), I always say, "I wasn't told about a drill so we have to assume this is real, but don't worry just do everything the same way we always do". It's not meant to scare them, just an honest answer. Kids worry about stuff already without adults helping. To me it seems like they (staff) were doing it for their own kicks with total disregard for the kids.

[papooses]

I teach at a public school and my school is an outstanding school. Our teachers are truly top-notch, our administration is excellent, and our students are the very best. I am PROUD to say I teach public school.Although I'm homeschooling Leila for Kindergarten, I firmly believe that any school regardless of public/private/charter/etc. can be fantasmagorical (to quote one of Leila's favorites: Tigger, LOL) ;) or absolutely horrific.... I really do like the principal at Leila's school & they have great community involvement activities, etc. for the kids -- Leila just isn't ready to sit for the Kindergarten class yet thanks to new requirements which are out of the school district's hands. When she is ready for more academia, she'll enjoy school because she's a prosocial kid whom very few people don't enjoy being around & I recognize that it's still my job as her parent to be consistently involved with the teachers + my child. IMO, this event is not the norm, it's a really scarey example of how stupid a few individuals can be & what is the unfortunate norm is that too many parents expect the schools to raise their kids for them, but kids inherently expect their parents to do that job so when they don't THAT'S when most of the trouble happens, either because the parents don't perform the slightest bit of their parenting duties on the emotional level, etc. at home and/or because too many parents just don't put forth the effort to know what's going on in their child's life outside of home :twocents:

[scatterbunny]

It really comes down to the fit of the individual child with the teacher and/or policies. This goes for public, private, charter, home, etc. Some kids are better off in public school than at home, but my kid will be better off at home.

:thumbsup: I agree. I think some public schools are wonderful and a great fit for some kids; not for mine, though.

I also agree with Brooke--I can cover the same material covered in her half-day kindergarten class in under an hour. For us, it just works better. Hayley doesn't have the attention span to "hang out" while teacher helps the other kids so they can all move on as a class. She gets bored, spaces out and daydreams. Then she isn't prepared to move on when teacher is ready to move on, so she gets behind. Learning was becoming boring to her, something she dreaded because it meant sitting and waiting forever. It wasn't fun or exciting.

I want learning to always be something Hayley WANTS to do, looks forward to.

[Patriot201]

I firmly believe that any school regardless of public/private/charter/etc. can be fantasmagorical (to quote one of Leila's favorites: Tigger, LOL) ;) or absolutely horrific....

I think some public schools are wonderful and a great fit for some kids; not for mine, though.


I agree with both of you that some children do much better at home than in a public/private/other school. As you said, there are some wonderful schools and some terrible schools. I do believe that each family must make its own decisions about education and how to educate their children. For some families, home schooling is best. For other families, private school is best. For still other families, public school is best.

I am probably going to get myself in big trouble for saying this, but I do worry about older children being home-schooled by parents who do not have the skills to teach certain subjects. For example, a met a young lady several years ago who had been home-schooled by her mother. Her mother, a native English speaker, did not have command of the English language and thus was not able to appropriately teach her daughter appropriate grammar, usage, composition, or the other skills her daughter needed to advance to the level she wanted. The young lady was taking the SATs and getting ready to apply to college, yet had never been taught English language skills by a person who had command of the language. Perhaps this was an isolated case, but I do worry about children who experience similar situations.

However, I completely understand how the same thing can happen in a traditional school. It is entirely possible that a student could go through school having never had a teacher who has an adequate command of the English language. I find that tragic. It pains me to read sentences in which people use an apostrophe to make something plural, use the wrong homophones (too/to/two; their/there/they're), or make other such errors. I am saddened that they were never taught correct usage. I know this can definitely happen in traditional schools just as easily as it can happen in home schools.

While I think I would do well home-schooling a child through approximately eighth or ninth grade, I fear that I do not have the math and science knowledge/skills to teach subjects such as chemistry, physics, Algebra II, trig, calculus, etc. I would also need help teaching my child foreign languages. I would have to either send my child to school or would have to find another home-schooler who could teach those subjects to my child. :)

[Morganthe]

I am probably going to get myself in big trouble for saying this, but I do worry about older children being home-schooled by parents who do not have the skills to teach certain subjects. For example, a met a young lady several years ago who had been home-schooled by her mother. Her mother, a native English speaker, did not have command of the English language and thus was not able to appropriately teach her daughter appropriate grammar, usage, composition, or the other skills her daughter needed to advance to the level she wanted. The young lady was taking the SATs and getting ready to apply to college, yet had never been taught English language skills by a person who had command of the language. Perhaps this was an isolated case, but I do worry about children who experience similar situations.

No you're not mistaken, this happens a lot. I remember some news stories and articles discussing how a parent's weakness or dislike for a subject is passed along to the child whether or not the child has an actual issue with it.

I'm very conscious of my traditional dislike of math. As I got older as an adult, I discovered I'm very good at it. I just retain no memory of it after several hours. I remember some of the patterns and think of math as a puzzle. But as a child, I LOATHED math. Easy come, easy go. It would just not transfer into long term memory. Plus I would transpose numbers 6 & 9 for instance -- 12 & 21, etc.. Made for miserable experiences, but I baffled teachers because I picked it up so quickly. They just couldn't understand that after a while, I'd completely blank out.

If I homeschooled dd, I would be extremely careful not to pass along my attitudes with math. It's possible that I'd see about an outside tutor or even attend a special class. I definitely would not have dh handle it. He has a worse view of math than I do :rolleyes: Even now, when I'm doing bills or we're working with numbers, I stay very upbeat with dd even though I'm as bored as a gourd with them.

Everything else, we could deal with. Upper science would be problematic due to a lack of a lab, but who knows what would be available to homeschoolers by then :shrug-shoulders:

[Knittingfor4]

Well, there is a right way and a wrong way to homeschool. Homeschooling does not mean your child is never taught by another person or never goes to another place to learn something. And it certainly doesn't mean your child is un- or under- socialized as many in the media and public school system suggest.

However it would be hard to throw a homeschooled child back into school at such an old age to learn harder subjects. By the time a homeschool child is in higher maths, his peers are still a grade or two below. So he'd have to be with kids 2yrs older just to stay at his academic level. Most of the time anyway. Sometimes the gaps are not equal. A child may be 3 grades ahead in math but only one grade ahead in science and 1 grade behind in english. I don't take that as a parental failure, but more personality or gender issue. How would you put that child into a school? It would be tough.

It's too bad that some people don't take the job seriously. But I imagine it must be a small minority since the tests prove that homeschool kids are smarter than private school kids and private school kids are smarter than public school kids. Most parents are doing something right to have such good outcomes.

[Morganthe]

But I imagine it must be a small minority since the tests prove that homeschool kids are smarter than private school kids and private school kids are smarter than public school kids. Most parents are doing something right to have such good outcomes.

Hmmm, I really don't think it's a case of anyone being smarter than another just because they test higher in certain situations :shrug-shoulders: Certainly they've learned or recalled more, but book learning has never equated intelligence or adaptability.
jmho :)

[UlrikeDG]

However it would be hard to throw a homeschooled child back into school at such an old age to learn harder subjects. By the time a homeschool child is in higher maths, his peers are still a grade or two below.

I'm not sure how that's any different from an institutionally educated student who takes advanced courses. I was always at *least* one year ahead of my age-mates in math. At least, I was when they finally started letting me take appropriate classes (7th grade on up).

The other thing is, if you have a child who is ready for more "advanced" math (say pre-algebra on up), you could go the Community College route. It's a little more expensive, but the child may be able to take those credits to college with him/her.

[Patriot201]

I'm not sure how that's any different from an institutionally educated student who takes advanced courses. I was always at *least* one year ahead of my age-mates in math. At least, I was when they finally started letting me take appropriate classes (7th grade on up).

Me too. I was a combo private/public school kid (but the majority of my education was public school). I was always at least one grade level ahead in math (until late high school, which is when I began falling behind) and was several grade levels ahead in reading/language arts/English.

The other thing is, if you have a child who is ready for more "advanced" math (say pre-algebra on up), you could go the Community College route. It's a little more expensive, but the child may be able to take those credits to college with him/her.

That's true! I didn't think of that... :)

[Morganthe]

The other thing is, if you have a child who is ready for more "advanced" math (say pre-algebra on up), you could go the Community College route. It's a little more expensive, but the child may be able to take those credits to college with him/her.

I've heard of this happening. Sometimes the tuition is paid either by the school district or waived as a quid pro quo agreement between the CC & the school district. There's also online courses with video conferencing offered because the nearest school can't offer it for whatever reason -- not enough enrollments, no speciality teacher, no space... etc..

It's amazing how flexible education can be these days. The skies the limit. The only limits are imagination & rules. Definitely much different than when I was in primary & secondary school :p

[scatterbunny]

In my area, older homeschooled kids (14ish+) often take community college courses to cover certain subjects that the parent cannot teach appropriately. Also, the high school here is really great about accommodating homeschooling kids for just one or two classes a day (I know one girl who only came to school for Spanish and Choir, her mom homeschooled her for the other subjects).

I did worry at first that I wouldn't be able to teach Hayley certain things that I, myself, do not know. However, I realized it would be a learning experience for both of us! I am a fast learner, and generally a good teacher. I was in the TAG/PACE program in school, took the SAT in 7th grade at age 12 (yes, the SAT, not the PSAT) and scored "average" for a high school senior. I am confident in my ability to teach my daughter adequately--MORE than adequately. I'm also humble enough to admit when I can't do something, so if the need should arise, I'm not above sending my daughter to someone else to be taught a certain subject.

I firmly believe that SO MUCH can be taught through everyday living, but instead society has this rigid idea of what schooling should look like. Parents become insecure about the ability to teach children "properly", forgetting that children are a sponge, they will learn what is shown to them, even if they don't realize they are learning! Parents get so caught up in "proper" education that they forget how to make learning exciting, spontaneous and fun.

[papooses]

Leila's biological father was shuffled through public schools & is still illiterate -- but very good at hiding it ... someone somewhere along the line during his education should have discovered it even if he can figure out how to get around it outside of school! :(

Standardized tests are traditionally geared more towards the average middle/upper class white student. Other kids generally don't do so well on the tests although they're often just as smart.

Our local community college has a homeschooler's department for highschool aged kids + all the colleges/universities here have educational community activities for families with kids of all ages :)

[TheRealMacGyver]

Standardized tests are traditionally geared more towards the average middle/upper class white student. Other kids generally don't do so well on the tests although they're often just as smart.

That's a pretty bold statement there Tiffany. I think what you mean (correct me if I'm wrong) is that some traditional test questions contain culturally biased wording that may be a disadvantage to some students. I know that this issue has been addressed and mostly corrected. We covered a lot about this is my measurement course and as I recall it wasn't so much a black/white thing as it was a minority and ESL/ESOL issue. In other words minority students (black, white, or purple) may not know certain words related to middle/upper class associations. ESOL students are just learning the language, so they have a disadvantage with certain wording and phrases, especially sayings like "the refrigerator is running", which may be taken literally.

[Morganthe]

That's a pretty bold statement there Tiffany. I think what you mean (correct me if I'm wrong) is that some traditional test questions contain culturally biased wording that may be a disadvantage to some students. I know that this issue has been addressed and mostly corrected. .

It's not only 'wording' as in definitions, it's also references to people, activities, and historical incidents that can reflect Western European Bias. :shrug-shoulders: IQ tests are excellent examples that proliferate the web. Many of the questions equate historical knowledge with general intelligence. Standardized tests reflects the same attitudes. After all, they're not made up from a general consensus of what we US citizens view as vital to be an adult citizen. It's private corporations who develop these tests and there's very little evaluation after they've been incorporated. Who tests the testers? :p

I've seen a lot of test questions that are just ridiculous. Curling, John Locke, trivia questions about obscure American Presidents, and other obscure items that we intend for our youth to have to know. I wish we as a country could join together and decide what type of information our students should know to be successfully educated adults. Until then, it's contracted out to the lowest bidder by 50 different states. :rolleyes:

[UlrikeDG]

According to my college psych classes, IQ tests (and other tests, also) are *not* good at measuring overall intelligence. They are, however, quite accurate at predicting academic performance, which is why universities continue to rely on them as part of their admissions qualification requirements.