extended breastfeeding

[broken4u05]

I am all for extended breastfeeding but when is it too long? I think this is too long but what do you all think?
http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1175520547/Breast_Feeding_5_And_7_Year_Olds

[Mama2J]

Personally I think it depends on what both the mom and child are comfortable with. What seems long to me, may be fine to someone else. My 3 1/2 year old nursed until just a few months ago, and people thought we were extreme. But for us it was perfect. :)

[mominabigtruck]

Seeing that little girl bfing just really grossed me out. I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I don't see bfing as any different then a bottle and I would certainly look down my nose at someone giving a 7 yo a bottle. I don't even feel comfortable with my 4.5yo seeing me naked because he's starting to realize differences between girls and boys and I think having a child that old bfing could have some serious issues down the road.

[Momto1bigkiddo]

I wasn't able to watch the video clip, but for me personally, I wouldn't breastfeed a 7 year old, that's for sure! A five year old......no *I* would not....but I can understand someone doing so with a 5 year old.

I breastfed my son until he was 30 months old (2 1/2 years). I only quit because I thought he had a fever blister/cold sore and I was afraid of getting that on my nipple. lol sorry tmi, I know. But! It turned out NOT to be a fever blister at all! It was a burn from hot food, but I was 2 days into not breastfeeding him and I didn't want to start over since it was a battle I was winning (he was a must-nurse-to-sleep kid).

But, if it hadn't been for that burn on his lip that I stupidly had mistaken for a herpes :rolleyes: , then yeah, I would have BFed until 3 years old I'm sure and that sounds NORMAL to me.. I could only imagine doing longer if my child was sick, forgive me for saying this, but if my child was ill with lukemia or a serious disease of some kind I would breastfeed if they wanted it (or pump for an older child) so they could recieve the health benifits.

My husband was breastfed until he was 4 1/2 years old!!! He is the smartest person I know, healthy, and is 6'11'' tall! LOL (though, his father his 6'5'' and he had a great-grandfather who was over 7'' tall and was a lumberjack in Maine, true story. lol).

No one in my family ever breastfed (even grandparents), I was the first. :thumbsup:

Sorry if I am off topic a little, I am in a good mood and chatty today. :p

[momof2kiddos]

Seeing that little girl bfing just really grossed me out. I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I don't see bfing as any different then a bottle and I would certainly look down my nose at someone giving a 7 yo a bottle. I don't even feel comfortable with my 4.5yo seeing me naked because he's starting to realize differences between girls and boys and I think having a child that old bfing could have some serious issues down the road.

I couldn't of said it better myself.On kellymom.com there a few women BF there 5 year olds and it honestly makes my stomach turn.I am all for BF if that is what you want to do but I think after age 2 is just too long.But for ME and MYSELF only I would never bf past 1 year of age just like I wouldn't let me baby walk around with a bottle passed 1 year of age.But of course this is coming from a FF mom.It is just easier for me to FF then breast feed,I am full time college student,and I take 5 classes a semster so my nose is too busy in books to take time to pump...That's why my Dh has to hands two help out with feedings,lol.

ETA: I hope I don't offend anyone,like I said this is Just My Opinion,and what I feel comfortble with,but then again no one in my family BF either so FF is all I know.

[Splash]

I don't think five years is too long at all. Seven years... depends on kid, mom, and circumstances. I would certainly rather see a breast fed grade schooler than a formula fed infant, though.
I am sure plenty of people think it's wrong and disgusting of me to nurse Charlie, and I don't care a lick. My son knows what he needs and wants, and I am going to give it to him. He'll stop when he's ready to stop. If that is when he is two, or three, or six, so be it. I imagine that I will limit it at some point, say only at bed time or when sick. Even now I don't nurse him in public as often, mostly because he doesn't want it. However, if he did, I would think nothing of it. He's a baby, that's what babies do.
We forget that parent forced weaning is a pretty western concept, and toddlers and grade schoolers nursing is not abnormal in many parts of the world. Just because people here equate breasts with sex doesn't mean that that's the norm.

[Gypsy]

OMG you mean you keep your kid rear facing past a year?!?!?!? You are so sick that you are depriving your child of being forward facing. Some things are just done too long, and that's one of them.


Riiiight.

My dd nursed until she was 4.5 years old. The WHO, AAFP, and MANY OTHER organizations recommend nursing for a *minimum* of two years.

Just as it's recommended to keep kids rear facing for a minimum of 1 year and 20 pounds -- MORE IS BETTER!

The health benefits of breastfeeding for MOTHER AND CHILD continue as long as the child is receiving breastmilk. The longer a woman lactates the less chance she has of developing breast and certain reproductive cancers.

My ds is 26 months and still nursing (and still rear facing OMG!) and he will be allowed to nurse until he weans himself, just as my dd was.

Breastfeeding and bottle feeding aren't even on the same planet. Breastfeeding is not only for nourishment, it's for immunities, as the human immune system isn't fully developed until 5-7 years. It's also for comfort. There is no such thing as the terrible twos in my home. My nursing toddlers are wonderful, smart & creative little creatures with very few temper tantrums. They are the Terrific Two's!!!

I think you need to get over whatever it is that makes you think it's gross, and keep your comments to yourself. You are not only rude, but offensive.

If you don't like it, then don't look!

[Minniemouse]

Bethany nursed until she was just over 3.5yo. Weaning was a slow process but by the age of 2 or so she was just nursing when laying down to go to sleep and whenever she was seriously ill.

I have to say nursing a pukey/poopy kid is MUCH easier than trying to get them to keep down pedialyte!

I plan on nursing Ben (16mo) until one of us wants to stop.

Would I nurse a 7yo, probably not... but it isn't my place to question if another mom and child want to.

[MySillyKids]

Here's the Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHRyRCHuQ7g

I was going to post this last week, but never got around to it! HaHa.

[lovinwaves]

I think the mother is the parent, and it is her choice.

She is doing a very natural thing with her children.

The one thing that stood out to me was the Father. It put a smile on my face to see how supportive he was to his wife for her desire to extend breastfeed. :)

[broken4u05]

When posting it i was not saying that is was wrong i more wanted to see how everyone felt about it. No i am not a mom yet so i do not know how i will feel when i do have a child and is nursing but right now i do not see myself doing it. Again i am not saying it is wrong i just wanted to see what everyone was thinking about it. O and i might FF my child some as well because i still want to go to school and i do not see myself being able to work go to school and pump all the time but again that might change when i have children as well.

[Gypsy]

When posting it i was not saying that is was wrong i more wanted to see how everyone felt about it. No i am not a mom yet so i do not know how i will feel when i do have a child and is nursing but right now i do not see myself doing it. Again i am not saying it is wrong i just wanted to see what everyone was thinking about it. O and i might FF my child some as well because i still want to go to school and i do not see myself being able to work go to school and pump all the time but again that might change when i have children as well.

http://www.promom.org/101/index.html

[Starlight]

I think the mother is the parent, and it is her choice.

She is doing a very natural thing with her children.

The one thing that stood out to me was the Father. It put a smile on my face to see how supportive he was to his wife for her desire to extend breastfeed. :)

:yeahthat: I will nurse my son for as long as we are both comfortable with it. If that is 7, than so be it. I will be glad that he is getting healthy antibodies and protection from diseases. Why does our country get so freaked out by breastfeeding?

[Gypsy]

Policy statements

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/start/prepare/bf-benefits.html#statements

[oxeye]

I think my personal comfort level (for me and my children) is around 3 or 4. My older daughter weaned a few days before her third birthday with a little coaxing from me. She'd ask to nurse and I'd tell I needed to do something else first. Usually by the time I finished she had forgotten she wanted to nurse. If she still wanted to nurse, I'd let her but that didn't happen very often. ;)

She's funny, though. She's been weaned for 6 months now but will still ask to nurse when she gets sad. I've offered and she's tried but she has completely forgotten how at this point. That made me a little sad.

My 20 month old is still nursing, but only first thing in the morning and last thing at night. I'm going to drop the morning sesson soon and orginally had a goal to wean her by two. I'm starting medical school in 4 months and figured that would be a good time to be done. But now that it is closer, I think we will keep that last nursing session for quite a bit longer. I can't see going longer than 3 years again, though.

As far as what other parents do? I don't care. I don't care if a mom bottlefeeds, weans after one month, one year, 5 years, etc. It's their body and their children and they need to do what is right for them. I've come a long way, though. I used to not understand at all why someone wouldn't even try to breastfeed and now I just don't care. ;) And some people will nurse a lot longer than I could ever do, and that doesn't bother me either.

[papooses]

Depends on the child, the parent(s), extended family & culture.... Each one influences whether the child feels healthy about it or shameful. SHAME is most evil feeling -- it hurts to the core like nothing else. I see absolutely no shame in a family doing what is healthiest for itself: if the child & mother are comfortable with it, then there need be no shaming. Not by the other parent, extended family or culture as a whole. If the mother cannot keep the child safely immune to the shame inherent in unsupportive environments, then continuing to nurse a child in a way that could be damaging because of others is not the ideal. However, the true ideal is to stop this shaming attitude! Breasts do not need to be so readily associated with sex as we have been trained. Child led weaning beyond 4 years does not have to cause any shame for the child or mother when society accepts that it is not associated with anything sexual. Furthermore, relating shame with sex on this level merely reinforces the intensity of sexual abuse stigma in general....

[Splash]

Why does our country get so freaked out by breastfeeding?

Titties. Boobs. Boobies. Knockers. Headlights. Gazongas. Tits.

How often does society refer to a breast as a breast? Breasts are for sex and sex only in this country. Also, formula is so easily available, pushed by doctors and hospitals, even paid for by the government. Women are urged not to breast feed, not even to try it. We're backwards.

I can guarantee you that if AJ's family knew I nursed Charlie, there would be a massive uproar. Except from Sharon who would think it was wonderful (who also BF her youngest until just after five and pumped for him even longer, amidst major family resistance).

[Momto1bigkiddo]

Now I feel bad for quitting at 2 1/2!! :o

[Mama2J]

When posting it i was not saying that is was wrong i more wanted to see how everyone felt about it.

I understand completely. I've found that breastfeeding is a very controversial subject for moms on both sides. I have strong opinions on it myself, however I also believe that it is a personal decision for each mom to do what is best for her child.

As you said, it is hard to know what you would do when the time comes. Both my husband and I were FF, and no one in my family BF, so formula and bottles was all I knew about growing up. My son might not have been BF if I hadn't read about the incredible health benefits of it. It was an obvious decision for ME, but it is not for everyone, and I try to respect that.

[Gypsy]

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2007/03/31/supply_and_deman
d/

Supply and demand

Evidence suggests more women are breast-feeding their children until they're
toddlers and older -- and they're not just earth-mother stereotypes

By Barbara F. Meltz, Globe Staff | March 31, 2007

On a recent Saturday evening, Ruth Tincoff and Bruce Inglehart of Wellesley
had a party for Gwen, their not-quite-5-year-old daughter. They served six
squealing girls squiggly pasta with red sauce and Gwen's favorite dessert --
vanilla cake with raspberry - and - lemon frosting. While the adults munched
on veggies and dip, the girls played dress-up.

Gwen's birthday is coming up in April, but this wasn't an early celebration.
This was Gwen's weaning party.

"Just before I cut the cake, I said, 'We are here to celebrate Gwen's
important decision.' Everybody already knew what it was, so that was pretty
much it," Tincoff says matter-of-factly.

Few children have weaning parties, let alone at such an advanced age. Even
though there is wide acceptance nowadays of nutritional and immunological
benefits of breast-feeding for infants, Americans, by and large, look
askance at mothers who nurse toddlers, preschoolers, or even kindergartners.
Anecdotal evidence suggests there are more of them than ever, however, and
they aren't just earth-mother types in Birkenstocks who homeschool their
children. Tincoff, for instance, works full time as a visiting assistant
professor at Wellesley College. She also had not expected to be nursing Gwen
until she was nearly 5.

"Gwen wasn't a big fan of eating," she says. At first, she stayed with it to
give Gwen the nutrition she needed. Then it became part of their
relationship and a way to comfort her daughter. "It helped Gwen to manage
her emotions. If she was cranky or had a tantrum, nursing helped restore
her," Tincoff says.

Figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and from Abbott
Labs' Ross Mothers Survey show a steady increase in the number of women who
initiate breast-feeding, from 57 percent in 1994 to 72 percent in 2005. Less
well-known is the gradual increase in the age at which breast-feeding stops.
In 1997, 26 percent of mothers were still nursing their babies at six
months; in 2005, 39 percent were. In 1997, 14.5 percent of mothers were
still breast-feeding at 12 months; by 2005, the number had climbed to 20
percent.

No one keeps count beyond 18 months, not even La Leche League International,
a lactation support system. Katherine Dettwyler , the nation's leading
breast-feeding researcher, says women who continue to nurse typically keep
quiet about it, sometimes even to family members, because the culture is so
biased against it.

"People say, 'Oh, he's going to think he's having sex with his mother!' "
she says. "Well, no. Only if you socialize him to think that way. This is a
biological process. Human beings are wired to naturally wean sometime after
2 1/2."

"Nursing an older child is no longer uncommon, but women know people today
tend to be judgmental and feel free to share their opinions," says Heather
Bingham of Arlington, a La Leche leader for nine years. Gail Levy, an
international board-certified lactation consultant with the Center for Early
Relationship Support at Jewish Family and Children's Services, says she sees
more women weaning after 12 months.

"We call these women 'closet nursers,' " says Dr. Ruth Lawrence , a
pediatrician who specializes in infant nutrition at the University of
Rochester. Lawrence, who chairs the American Academy of Pediatrics' section
on breast-feeding, helped write the academy's 2005 position statement that
reaffirms breast-feeding for at least a year and "beyond for as long as
mutually desired by mother and child." The World Health Organization's
recommendation, adopted in 1979, is for a minimum of two years.

Tincoff says she knows at least 10 women who are nursing preschoolers; all
the girls at Gwen's party had recently weaned or are still nursing. Amanda
Lappen of Jamaica Plain, who nurses her 19-month-old twins, says she knows
20 women who nurse children older than hers. Wendy Bosland of North
Attleborough, whose third child, Henry, stopped breast-feeding this winter
at 5 1/2, says she sees many more women now who nurse long term than 11
years ago when she nursed her first child.

Public health campaigns account for the increase in women who breast-feed,
says Lawrence. Those who stay with it, particularly beyond 18 months, tend
to be highly educated. "This is not a cult," she says. "It's about education
and learning that the benefits persist." Research shows that breast-feeding
provides continued protection against infection and allergies.

There is also the matter of the mother-child relationship. For a working
mother who is separated from her child all day, nursing in the morning and
at night is a loving way to reconnect, says Naomi Bar-Yam of the
Massachusetts Breastfeeding Coalition.

Bar-Yam points out that breast-feeding a 3-year-old is very different from
breast-feeding a 3-month-old. Nursing lasts only a few minutes instead of 20
or 30, and typically happens once or twice a day, not six or more times. An
advantage of nursing an older child is the ability to communicate. Mara Rest
of Wayland, who weaned her 5-year-old last August and still nurses her 2
1/2-year-old, likes that she can tell her son, "This isn't a good time. How
about when we get home?"

The ability to set boundaries on nursing is one characteristic of a healthy
nursing relationship, says Dr. Jane Morton, a pediatrician who is a clinical
professor at Stanford Medical School as well as a member of the AAP
breast-feeding section.

"There are no medical or psychological reasons not to nurse long term," she
says. "It's frowned on in the US because the breast has become so highly
sexualized." She says it's a myth to think that a child who nurses long term
will not develop autonomy.

There is not unanimous agreement on this. Some professionals support the
notion that breast-feeding beyond a certain point can create an unhealthy
dependency on the mother. But Texas psychologist Linda Sonna of the American
Psychological Association says there is growing recognition that it's best
to let the child determine when she's ready to wean. Many children "may not
be ready until 5, 6, or even later," says Sonna, who has written many
parenting books including "The Everything Toddler Book."

"There's no reason to think it is abnormal or pathological or sick," says
Nancy Holtzman , board-certified lactation consultant at Isis Maternity
parenting programs in Arlington, Brookline, and Needham.

Norma Jane Bumgarner, author of "Mothering your Nursing Toddler," says women
who experience hostility often are those who invite criticism. "Especially
with older children, a person has to think about what she wants to deal
with," she says.

Rest says she was very private about nursing because she sensed that even
her husband, Dan Balter, was a little squeamish. If that's true, Balter
says, he's over it now. Last week, when they were at a computer store, Rest
disappeared to a corner to discreetly nurse 2 1/2-year-old Joachim. Balter
didn't think twice about dragging the salesman over so they could ask her
opinion. "He didn't bat an eyelash, and neither did I," Balter says.

When long-term nursers wean, they usually do so gradually.

Last fall, Tincoff's bedtime nursing disappeared because she was teaching at
night, so Gwen and her father created a new bedtime ritual of bath and book.
Months later, when days might go by without the morning nursing, Tincoff
asked Gwen, "Do you want to be done with mama-milk? I'm OK with that if you
are." She was.

Contact Barbara Meltz at meltz@globe.com.

[broken4u05]

All of you on here have helped me for when i have kids not just with car seats but also other things. I never used to want to do cloth and some other things but i have changed. So i just wanted to see different opinions on it. I never wanted to nurse more than 6 months but after my goddaughter nursed till 13 or 14 months i thought than maybe i could to (if my child wanted to and everything too) I want to say thanks it helps hearing different opinions from people not in your family that judges you.

[LovinMyBabies]

OMG you mean you keep your kid rear facing past a year?!?!?!? You are so sick that you are depriving your child of being forward facing. Some things are just done too long, and that's one of them.


LMAO!!!! I had just about the same sentence go through my head when I read this!!!

I breastfeed my 2.5 year old AND my 5 month old. AND they are BOTH rear-facing. We do what's best for our children.

[LovinMyBabies]

O and i might FF my child some as well because i still want to go to school and i do not see myself being able to work go to school and pump all the time but again that might change when i have children as well.

It's do-able. I do it. I have three children, a job, and am in Nursing school full-time. And I BF two of my children currently. If you need support when you're ready, I'll gladly be available to help cheer you on. :)

[skaterbabscpst]

OMG you mean you keep your kid rear facing past a year?!?!?!? You are so sick that you are depriving your child of being forward facing. Some things are just done too long, and that's one of them.


Riiiight.

My dd nursed until she was 4.5 years old. The WHO, AAFP, and MANY OTHER organizations recommend nursing for a *minimum* of two years.

Just as it's recommended to keep kids rear facing for a minimum of 1 year and 20 pounds -- MORE IS BETTER!

The health benefits of breastfeeding for MOTHER AND CHILD continue as long as the child is receiving breastmilk. The longer a woman lactates the less chance she has of developing breast and certain reproductive cancers.

My ds is 26 months and still nursing (and still rear facing OMG!) and he will be allowed to nurse until he weans himself, just as my dd was.

Breastfeeding and bottle feeding aren't even on the same planet. Breastfeeding is not only for nourishment, it's for immunities, as the human immune system isn't fully developed until 5-7 years. It's also for comfort. There is no such thing as the terrible twos in my home. My nursing toddlers are wonderful, smart & creative little creatures with very few temper tantrums. They are the Terrific Two's!!!

I think you need to get over whatever it is that makes you think it's gross, and keep your comments to yourself. You are not only rude, but offensive.

If you don't like it, then don't look!


:yeahthat:
Cause my 3 1/2 yo still asks for "more" on a regular basis every morning.

[broken4u05]

It's do-able. I do it. I have three children, a job, and am in Nursing school full-time. And I BF two of my children currently. If you need support when you're ready, I'll gladly be available to help cheer you on. :)

Thanks so much for the support but i am not even pregnant yet and that is not going to happen for a while because i just broke up with my bf. So you will need to stay around here till that happens lol.

[ThreeBeans]

I think the ONLY opinion that matters is that of the mother and her child ;)

There is more than ample evidence to the fact that not only does EBF NOT harm a child in any way, it actually is better for the child than otherwise.

[broken4u05]

O and i do have my mom. She even has told me not to FF at all before 6 months but longer is better. She used to leave work at lunch to breastfeed me at daycare when i was a baby

[mominabigtruck]

I think that if your opinion is that bfing is better nuturionally then that's fine, but there's no reason that it can't be pumped and given in a cup. It is absolutely the same thing as giving an older child a bottle because its only done for comfort, not for nutrional value because they can eat and drink on their own. It's not any different then a child that old having to have a pacifier, and if your child is 7 and still needs a pacifier to control their emotions then there's something wrong.

I am not debating the fact that bfing may or may not be better, I'm just saying I think there's more appropriate ways to do it if you're choosing to do it with a child that old.

[broken4u05]

I hate bottles and pacifiers after a year. We stoped the boys with both of them (they stoped the pacifier on there own) right after 12 months Only used the bottle once sence then because of the stomach bug and jack not eating at all and not drinking anything. But again things could change when i have kids but the boys were easy to take off the bottle

[Splash]

Actually, pumping and bottle/cup feeding supplies many of the benefits, but not all.
A nursing mother can create antibodies specifically for whatever illness her child has. I don't know the whol science of it, but I have read it in enough well respected places to believe it, but germs from the child's saliva to the mother's breasts and into her blood stream enable her to quickly begin making more of what her child needs for that specific illness.

And it's not all about controlling emotions. Did you never need comfort after you were seven? At seven years old your mother (father, grandparent, whoever) never hugged you, kissed you boo boo, held your hand? Nothing? You were never comforted by a parent once you hit grade school, and you think comforting an older child is wrong? Because nursing is a huge comfort to a child, not just to avoid tantrums or make them behave better. It's the same as reading a child a bedtime story or tucking him in for the night or giving him a band aid for a bruise. It's a comfort gesture that some kids need longer than others.

[scatterbunny]

OMG you mean you keep your kid rear facing past a year?!?!?!? You are so sick that you are depriving your child of being forward facing. Some things are just done too long, and that's one of them.


Riiiight.

My dd nursed until she was 4.5 years old. The WHO, AAFP, and MANY OTHER organizations recommend nursing for a *minimum* of two years.

Just as it's recommended to keep kids rear facing for a minimum of 1 year and 20 pounds -- MORE IS BETTER!

The health benefits of breastfeeding for MOTHER AND CHILD continue as long as the child is receiving breastmilk. The longer a woman lactates the less chance she has of developing breast and certain reproductive cancers.

My ds is 26 months and still nursing (and still rear facing OMG!) and he will be allowed to nurse until he weans himself, just as my dd was.

Breastfeeding and bottle feeding aren't even on the same planet. Breastfeeding is not only for nourishment, it's for immunities, as the human immune system isn't fully developed until 5-7 years. It's also for comfort. There is no such thing as the terrible twos in my home. My nursing toddlers are wonderful, smart & creative little creatures with very few temper tantrums. They are the Terrific Two's!!!

I think you need to get over whatever it is that makes you think it's gross, and keep your comments to yourself. You are not only rude, but offensive.

If you don't like it, then don't look!

:thumbsup: I totally agree.

Too many people equate breasts with sex, bottom line. YES, they are a nice thing to have around for sex ( :p ), but that is not the FUNCTION of breasts. That is not why women have them.

[arly1983]

Jackson weaned himself at 8 months and I squalled like a baby (partly because my breasts were producing 12 oz of milk every three hours and engorgment hurt) I pumped for him for a long time..I really miss it because he was such an introverted baby and we really connected through the breastfeeding
With Camille, I breast feed for six weeks before we found out she *might* have galactosemia. I was STRONGLY advised to stop breastfeeding IMMEDIENTLY...Long story....but in the end I set up with a staph infection in my right breast and had to be dried up and then two weeks later we found out Camille did not have galactosemia. She has long since went through the breast milk I had in the freezer. I have been trying without any success to relactate and she will not nurse now for comfort. I feel like I have been robbed of something very special and hate that she is not getting the superior breast milk. I think i am all for breast feeding as long as the mother and child want.

BTW, come hell or high water #3 will be breastfed!

[scatterbunny]

I think that if your opinion is that bfing is better nuturionally then that's fine, but there's no reason that it can't be pumped and given in a cup. It is absolutely the same thing as giving an older child a bottle because its only done for comfort, not for nutrional value because they can eat and drink on their own. It's not any different then a child that old having to have a pacifier, and if your child is 7 and still needs a pacifier to control their emotions then there's something wrong.

I am not debating the fact that bfing may or may not be better, I'm just saying I think there's more appropriate ways to do it if you're choosing to do it with a child that old.

Letting a child BF at an older age does not harm the developing mouth in the same way a bottle does. Also, why should a BFing mom have to do EXTRA steps like wash and sterilize bottles, pump and freeze milk when the milk is already right there, warm in its INTENDED package?

[arly1983]

Letting a child BF at an older age does not harm the developing mouth in the same way a bottle does. Also, why should a BFing mom have to do EXTRA steps like wash and sterilize bottles, pump and freeze milk when the milk is already right there, warm in its INTENDED package?

EXACTLY, just do it the Natural way, you know, the best way is the natural way ( in just about everything)

[scatterbunny]

And I just want to say that I only BF for the first month. Hayley was a preemie and tongue-tied and it wasn't figured out until she was about 3.5 weeks old. She could not latch, even after help from an LC, who told me to "starve her" and she would figure it out. :rolleyes: Yeah, my 4 pounder could stand starving. Sure.

I pumped as long as I could but could never get more than 2-3 ounces at a time. It was depressing and a very low point in my life. I think I suffered from post-partum depression during this time. Mark had to change all the diapers. I was just so sad that the decision I had made for my baby's feeding and health wasn't working.

Anyway, back then I felt like my personal comfort level to continue the BF relationship would have been about age 2. As I got older and Hayley got older and I learned more and met more and more women who spoke to me about extended BF (just like extended RF), I realized the benefits (both health and emotional) that extended BF really offers.

As Hayley got to be 3, then 4, I realized I would be fine nursing at that age and stage, despite my previous reservations.

Now I wholeheartedly believe it is a personal choice only the mother and child can make, and it's different for every family.

[Starlight]

Letting a child BF at an older age does not harm the developing mouth in the same way a bottle does. Also, why should a BFing mom have to do EXTRA steps like wash and sterilize bottles, pump and freeze milk when the milk is already right there, warm in its INTENDED package?

:yeahthat:

[Morganthe]

Great thread. I admit watching that vid was WIERD. And I still bf my 3 1/2 year old daughter without any intention of permanently stopping anytime soon, so I guess that says something.
I guess it's one of those things that should be private after a certain age because the child can wait on it. I agree with the woman so much, except these breasts are MINE, not dd's. I don't believe dd will be requesting 'nursey' at age 5 or 6 anytime of the day, so I"m not worried about it. Not wearing a bra? Forget that! These double D's need all the support they can get :p

Thanks for posting that article, Gypsy. I never thought of having a party for when dd completely stops nursing. Pretty cool. :thumbsup:

My maternal grandfather & his sister were bf'd until around age 6 or 7. They were 6 years apart, so his mom probably completely stopped with him when she was pregnant with my great aunt. I'm sure it helped with their survival. My grandfather was born in western Oklahoma on the prairie 2 years before it became a state. Middle of nowhere. Then the family travelled by horse up to western Washington when he was a baby.
I'm just continuing a family tradition :D
My MiL never talks about it, but I'm sure she thinks I'm insane, but that's ok. I can handle it.

DD & I have had a rough 3 weeks together with all sort of commitments & worries. It was very relaxing to cuddle next to one another this morning and just not go anywhere. I read & she nursed while daydreaming for about an hour. It's been the most peaceful day in a long time with no upsets, fussing, fighting, or whining even though she has a runny nose (coming down with a cold or allergies?). I have things I could & should be doing, but we're both so worn out, I've just pushed things to tomorrow. It was just sweet to reconnect as mother & child without any pressure this am. :)

[Jeanum]

Nursing DD2 has been a breeze in comparison to the struggles that led me to exclusively pump for my oldest, and DD2 can continue to nurse as long as she wants. When to wean is up to her as far as I'm concerned. :) I would never go down the exclusively pumping road again when it's possible to nurse directly. It's so much added work to pump, clean bottles, clean the pump, keep track of the milk's storage and rotation, worry about power outages... It's a huge time commitment that you could spend in more quality ways interacting with the baby and other family members if there's no medical necessity for exclusively pumping instead of nursing. :twocents:

[Mama2J]

It's so much added work to pump, clean bottles, clean the pump, keep track of the milk's storage and rotation, worry about power outages... It's a huge time commitment that you could spend in more quality ways interacting with the baby and other family members if there's no medical necessity for exclusively pumping instead of nursing. :twocents:

I have to agree on the pumping. I found pumping and all the chores that go with it to be a hassle. Since I worked full time, I had to pump there, but I hardly ever pumped at home. It was just so much easier for me to nurse him whenever I could. And really easy during the night, when I barely had to wake up for night feedings.

[XmasEve]

Wow, thanks for posting that link, it was beautiful. That is one patient mom! And one super supportive dad! No wonder they have great kids, with or without breastfeeding.

I nursed dd1 until I got pregnant with dc2 before her 2nd birthday. The milk dried up and dd1 made the decision to stop. I would have liked her to continue, I thought she was too young to give up such a nurturing activity. But I realized asking a child to continue nursing was not the right thing to do. DD1 made the choice herself and that makes it the right choice.

dc2 recently turned 2 and my milk dried up again. But she loves the breast and wants to continue nursing. I have to admit the part in the video where the mom tells her daughter no monkeying around struck a chord. Some days I would really like to stop being an edible beanbag, especially since the milk is gone so you can argue there's no "benefit." But I'm waiting for dd2 to make the choice, just as her sister got to.








I'm going to be really honest for a minute here and say it grosses me out when my dh wants to put my breasts in his mouth. Caresses, loving touch, even light kissing, all good, very appreciated and enjoyed-- but only my babies get to suck on my breasts. Why does it gross people out so much to see a prepubescent child still nursing, but it's common knowledge that one part of modern day sexual intimacy is the male making full claim to the female's breasts? I think that's pretty backwards. Breastfeeding is not inherently sexual. It's what we've done to sex that makes breastfeeding seem sexual.

Just my :twocents: and I'm really hoping I don't get banned from this site as I'm learning a lot about car safety. :o

[Yoshi]

Depends on the child, the parent(s), extended family & culture.... Each one influences whether the child feels healthy about it or shameful. SHAME is most evil feeling -- it hurts to the core like nothing else. I see absolutely no shame in a family doing what is healthiest for itself: if the child & mother are comfortable with it, then there need be no shaming. Not by the other parent, extended family or culture as a whole. If the mother cannot keep the child safely immune to the shame inherent in unsupportive environments, then continuing to nurse a child in a way that could be damaging because of others is not the ideal. However, the true ideal is to stop this shaming attitude! Breasts do not need to be so readily associated with sex as we have been trained. Child led weaning beyond 4 years does not have to cause any shame for the child or mother when society accepts that it is not associated with anything sexual. Furthermore, relating shame with sex on this level merely reinforces the intensity of sexual abuse stigma in general....

Yes, I agree completely with you on this. There is nothing gross about it to me although it is not something I wouldn't have done myself. My DD weaned at 15 months (self-weaned :crying: ) I would have nursed comfortably to age 3 or 3.5, but then I think it probably would have been at night before bed as a comfort thing. We shouldn't get so darn hung up on what other people do. And getting rid of the bottles and pacifiers is because of tooth decay and tooth alignment issues- not because they are 1 yr old and magically do not need to suck anymore. That is the beauty of nursing- it fulfills all of their needs well into their second year instead of withholding comfort (taking away bottles,etc) After my DD weaned , she used a bottle at night before bed in the rocker with me. We just stopped this in November- she was 3.5 We both miss it.

[Splash]

edible beanbag


Thanks for my new title!
:ROTFLMAO:

[Gypsy]

Letting a child BF at an older age does not harm the developing mouth in the same way a bottle does. Also, why should a BFing mom have to do EXTRA steps like wash and sterilize bottles, pump and freeze milk when the milk is already right there, warm in its INTENDED package?

Exactly!!

I exclusively pumped and finger fed my ds his first 2 weeks of life because he was born rapidly and the plates in his head didn't shift properly and were pinching nerves that controlled his tongue. He was unable to nurse. After physical therapy and CranialSacral Therapy he started nursing.

Exclusive pumping is a pain in the rear!

I also pumped ds's entire first year to donate to a milk bank.

WHY someone would pump instead of nursing a willing child is beyond my level of comprehension. In addition to everything you mentioned Jenny, there are the germ/immunity transfers like someone else mentioned and no need to carry pump parts and everything every time you leave the house, or travel, or to find someplace with an outlet to pump when you are at the zoo for the day or whatever.

Weaning is a very progressive and gradual process.

When my dd was 2.5 she was only nursing before and after sleep times -- so 4x a day.

During my pregnancy with ds she spaced her nursings to a few times a week, often going as long as 2 weeks between nursings.

When ds was born, she started nursing every morning again, and I tandem nursed for 4 months. That last month that dd nursed she was skipping days and weeks again. When she did wean, we had a lovely weaning party for her, many of the kids in attendance were nursed well past their second birthday's and some were still nursing.

Breastfeeding is beautiful, it's biologically normal & healthy, and I am blessed that my dd nursed so well from the very beginning, that when ds was unable to nurse as a newborn I knew what needed to be done and I kept searching to find out how to fix his extremely rare problem.

Mothers need more information and support from day one with a baby, if baby can't nurse for whatever reason mom needs immediate information on how to protect her milk supply, and immediate information and resources for getting her child to nurse. Our country is failing mothers and babies and it's very sad.

Only someone who has never breastfed past infancy would think it's the same thing to pump and give it in a cup. Might as well hand a 3 month old a potty and toss the diapers because that's pretty much how different breast vs cup is for a nursing child.

[arly1983]

Actually, approved pacifiers can be used up to five years old. I know this because we still use our sons for "melt-downs" and I was extremely worried about any side effects... He has a medical problem and we are not going to take away his pappy until we have to or he no longer needs it.

[Splash]

Charlie was almost a pump baby. He couldn't comfortably nurse. All the LCs were shocked by his behavior. He was just SO uncomfortable (remember, he lacked skin coverage) and would NOT want to be touched. He laid on his belly completely perpendicular to her and that was how she fed him for months. She thought about giving up, because nursing caused him pain for a long time, but never did. They just found a way to make it work.
The first time I purposely nursed him was overnight in a hospital at about 5 months old. He would not settle and would NOT take a bottle. He wanted to nurse. Finally I asked the nurse for an NG tube and rigged my own little ghetto SNS. It worked, he took the whole bottle, and our nursing relationship began full force.

He's weaned himself from AJ, part his choice, part hers. She was done, and I don't blame her. She drastically altered her diet and lifestyle for 18 months in order to give him what he needed, and she was just over it. There was some hostility in the beginning (I admit, I did not support her in this) but Charlie distanaced himself and it was never a struggle. She occasionally still nurses him for naptime, though I doubt she has much milk anymore. But between the two of us, he always chooses my boobs. I guess he just likes mine more!

[arly1983]

Charlie was almost a pump baby. He couldn't comfortably nurse. All the LCs were shocked by his behavior. He was just SO uncomfortable (remember, he lacked skin coverage) and would NOT want to be touched. He laid on his belly completely perpendicular to her and that was how she fed him for months. She thought about giving up, because nursing caused him pain for a long time, but never did. They just found a way to make it work.
The first time I purposely nursed him was overnight in a hospital at about 5 months old. He would not settle and would NOT take a bottle. He wanted to nurse. Finally I asked the nurse for an NG tube and rigged my own little ghetto SNS. It worked, he took the whole bottle, and our nursing relationship began full force.

He's weaned himself from AJ, part his choice, part hers. She was done, and I don't blame her. She drastically altered her diet and lifestyle for 18 months in order to give him what he needed, and she was just over it. There was some hostility in the beginning (I admit, I did not support her in this) but Charlie distanaced himself and it was never a struggle. She occasionally still nurses him for naptime, though I doubt she has much milk anymore. But between the two of us, he always chooses my boobs. I guess he just likes mine more!


Oh, I wish Camille (Jackson prefers his pappy) would comfort nurse. It would make ME feel better.

[joolsplus3]

The thing is, to me, you see that same little baby at the same place nursing on your chest, and they grow a little every day, and you don't really notice they've gone from newborn to toddler to kid, because the change is so gradual. It's kind of weird seeing that huge 7 yo on her mom, but looking down at my own kids sweet little faces is so different and not creepy at all.

I'm the opposite of the PP who doesn't want her DH's 'attentions'... I don't mind my dh, but I can't stand it when Leah eats from one and tries to play with the other :D

I'll breastfeed probably till at least age 2-3... I'm totally selfish: I'm scared of breast cancer, and nursing is one of the better ways to prevent it. :whistle:

[papooses]

I'll breastfeed probably till at least age 2-3... I'm totally selfish: I'm scared of breast cancer, and nursing is one of the better ways to prevent it. :whistle:

That's no more selfish than buying a safe car -- you're helping to ensure your kids will have a mama for a long time.... :love:

[Susan in MI]

I don't know that I personally would nurse that long, but I have no problem if others want to. Mine nursed for 6 months, 7 months, and 14 months. Each time they stopped on their own, the oldest, had I known better, could have been enticed to keep it up. My middle, I tried really hard. I pumped like crazy, but I cannot pump well and I lost my milk. She had begun to associate nursing with pain due to her severe reflux, I think that is why she stopped. With my youngest, she had cut back to just twice a day nursing and I think my milk dried up, so she quit altogether.

If I ever have another, I'll nurse as long as he/she wants and I'm comfortable with it. At the moment, I find it hard to believe I'd be comfortable past age 5, but I can't know that for sure. I had no problem nursing my babies in public, but I think I wouldn't nurse one older than 2 or so in public.

[Mom To 3 Knuckleheads]

I am all for extended breastfeeding but when is it too long? I think this is too long but what do you all think?
http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1175520547/Breast_Feeding_5_And_7_Year_Olds

im all for extended BFing butttt at 7 i would put it in a cup.
i found some of the things a little disturbing, not her breastfeeding but the pictures and such. I wouldnt breastfeed a 7 yr old but if shes comfortable then hey go for it...personally i would start pumping at 5 if that was the plan...just my:twocents:

[Splash]

I don't mind breastfeeding a seven year old. I've been thinking about it all day.

I DO mind putting it on television and making it completely public and sharing it with the world.

It's not shameful, not at all. But it's private. I bathe with my son. He can bathe or shower with me for as long as he feels comfortable doing it. But I'm not going to televise it.

[ThreeBeans]

Exclusively pumping for a seven year old is far more weird than nursing one. :thumbsup:

[lovinwaves]

It's not shameful, not at all. But it's private. I bathe with my son. He can bathe or shower with me for as long as he feels comfortable doing it. But I'm not going to televise it.

I bath & shower with my kids. Not only does it save water, but it is also easier on the back :) They also do baths, and shower with daddy too!!

[scatterbunny]

Yes, it's private, but think of it this way: she's getting the message out there that it isn't shameful or wrong. That it can be normal. So many parents don't realize that extended BF is normal, just like they don't realize that extended RF is normal. Yes, one doesn't need to be in the public eye, but if it isn't, how will more people become aware?

[joolsplus3]

I don't mind breastfeeding a seven year old. I've been thinking about it all day.

I DO mind putting it on television and making it completely public and sharing it with the world.

It's not shameful, not at all. But it's private. I bathe with my son. He can bathe or shower with me for as long as he feels comfortable doing it. But I'm not going to televise it.


Yeah, good point... my kids love to hop in the bath with me, dad, or grandma, but it's not something we share with the world (till now, lol). Maybe it was fine that this ONE person fine with showing herself off just to get us all talking about it, though?

[Mom To 3 Knuckleheads]

I don't mind breastfeeding a seven year old. I've been thinking about it all day.

I DO mind putting it on television and making it completely public and sharing it with the world.

It's not shameful, not at all. But it's private. I bathe with my son. He can bathe or shower with me for as long as he feels comfortable doing it. But I'm not going to televise it.

i agree, i wouldbt televise it , i wouldnt be ashamed but no need to show the rest of the world either..im just a private person though

[becca011906]

Ok i can't read this whole thread, i'm way to emotinal and edgey and pushy about it!!!

I am an IBCLC (INTERNATIONAL BOARD CERTIFIED LACTATION COUSLUTANT)!!! I bf my first to 16 months (this is when i was only a 16 year old mama) i bf my second child to 8 months stoped b/c my dentist refused to cut my wisdom teeth out till i weaned, i cried for weeks... ( and now know better) my youngest was breastfed till 2 years and 3 months when she weaned herself, totall her self and i was heart broken that she was done nursing, oh well i did what she needed and i would have done what she needed till she no longer needed be that 3 years, 5 years, or 7 years...
I wanted to give a HUGE pat on the back to those the breastfeed, or breastfed, or tried, or wanted to, or will!!! Our country has so so so many health proplems and breastfeeding really can help stop many of them or decrease the chances by breastfeeding! :)

[broken4u05]

I will be bathing with my kids. I know i will. I am sure when they are little babies (not too little but small) i will take them in the shower with me

[arly1983]

I am 100% for extended breastfeeding

I cringed when I watched the video but I think it is like catching someone at an intimate moment, you feel embarressed. Me personally, I didn't breastfeed in public (without a breastfeeding shawl) but then I am a pretty modest person. For those who are comfortable doing it in public, good for you.

[lovinwaves]

I am an IBCLC (INTERNATIONAL BOARD CERTIFIED LACTATION COUSLUTANT)!!!

WOW, that is awesome. I looked into becoming one until I saw all the thousands of hours you had to be volunteering, plus a 4 year college degree, plus... I can't remember, but it takes ALOT to become a Lactation Consultant. That is great at such a young age you have already become one :D

[santecno]

To each their own. I agree with the others that said if you are comfortable with it then by all means go for it.

[Synchro246]

I don't think there's a specifc upper age limit where it suddenly is no longer OK for a healthy family to breastfeed. Of the very few people I know who BF to 5-7 years NONE do it for unhealthy reasons. ALL the children are very emotionally capable. I think it's unfounded to say that it will do "damage". It's just kinda silly to say that. Interdependence is HEALTHY.

Raise your hand if you have a husband with some kind of issue expressing himself emotionally. I know there are many cultural factors at work here that supress men's ability to express themselves, but maybe, just MAYBE if they were nursed in a natural and healthy way by a healthy mother they would be a little more likely to know that expression of emotions is healthy and OK.
Maybe I'm going out on a limb with that one because it's really so multifactorial (and I'm not saying women don't have issues--don't get me wrong).



Anyway. I grew up knowing I would BF. I planned on Child Led Weaning. When my son was about 14 months old I started noticing signs that my fertility was trying to return and at that same time I started feeling an aversion to nursing at times. I struggled with it. I thought CLW was the natural thing to do. I read up on how other primates wean (awesome book--Parenting for Primates). I figured out that it's really an intricate dance between the mother and her young.
I got some support and I gently night-weaned him. It was just right. I no longer felt like pushing him away when he nursed during the day. Now, I'm big and pregnant and my nipples are tender and I do sometimes tell him no or redirect him or cut a nursing session short. I still have no upper age limit, but I do not picture my son completely weaning himself--it's something we will do together.

(AND another point about healthy vs. damage: I imagine that my son is learning a lot about how to negotiate and respect boundries right now in our nursing dance.)

[amy919]

I guess the bottom line for me is YOUR child, YOUR choice. I made an informed decision not to breastfeed and I refuse to feel guilty about it. I have no problems with those that do breastfeed - at 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years or 20 years - YOUR child, YOUR choice. You don't tell me what to do with MY child and I'll show you the same respect. It doesn't gross me out, it doesn't make me uncomfortable. I'm indifferent. I listed to the whole Breast is Best campaign, I was berated and called a bad parent, basically accused of negligence because I CHOSE not to breastfeed. I simply wasn' comfortable with it. And I don't think either of my children suffered because of my decision.

As an aside hers, SPLASH - I personally applaud you! My aunt has 3 adopted children and breastfed every one of them. She got hell from all sides for doing it, so I understand where you are coming from when talking about AJ's side of the family pitching a fit. But guess wahst - YOUR child, YOUR choice.

Can you tell that's my new motto?

[Splash]

I don't mind her TALKING about it. Sure, go on television and talk about it. But it seemed a bit attention whoring to tape the actual nursing. And, tbh, a bit disrespectful to her child. I've don't lots of media stuff with, for, and about Charlie, and each time it bothers me. What I did I did because it had to be done and we were thrust into the role of unwilling activists. But, if not me, who? But each time I worried about how it would affect him one day that I did it. I think publicly nursing your seven year old... no, not publicly, ON TELEVISION, takes it too far. It's a mother/child moment, a bond that cannot be expressed or shared. It's private. To show it off cheapens it and negates the message. Sex is normal, too (NOT saying BF and sex have anything to do with each other), but I don't want to watch someone else doing it and I don't think it should be televised. Talk all you want on TV about sexual openness and new positions, but actually doing it is a private act that is meant to stay private.

[Loves2sing]

I wasn't able to breastfeed past 2 1/2 mos with my dd. I totally dried up as a result of the drugs I had to take for emergency surgery, which helped to dry me up, and I wasn't able to feed her while I was on them. I very much look forward to having my next child so that I can breastfeed again. There is something so special about the bonding experience that is impossible to get in any other way. I doubt very much that I will go as long as 5 or 7 years, but who I am to judge those who do?

[oxeye]

(AND another point about healthy vs. damage: I imagine that my son is learning a lot about how to negotiate and respect boundries right now in our nursing dance.)

I absolutely agree with this! And it will get even more interesting after the baby is born. My DD1 was only nursing every few days before her sister was born (mainly because it was so uncomfortable for me). After her sister was born and the milk was back full force, she wanted to nurse 24/7. So she learned even more - about sharing with her sister and waiting her turn (I could never nurse them at the same time) AND about understanding that she needed to listen to me and could only nurse certain times of the day. :D

[didymama]

didn't read all the posts-babe in arms-but i am currently tandem nursing am LOVE IT!!!!!!!! my older nursling is 20m and the younger is 4m. my dh is totally cool with it. i will nurse as long as my children feel that they need it. i will never be able to get these days back so i want them to last. my 4yo has also asked to nurse and i offer but it is more of a limits type thing for him-he was FF by necessity. if he is sick though i am known to give him breast milk though-trust me itt works otherwise i wouldn't do it.

as for the mom's that are equating exbf with issues in later childhood/adulthood. i really think that it is only an issue if you make it one and you can duely teach your children to veiw the female breast the same way they would view a nursing mama cat. they are for nursing babies, not for men to foldle etc (i say this having been an exotic dancer in a past life) we as a society need to raise our children not to sexualize everything. i don't even try to cover up anymore. if i can watch you eat your lunch what is the issue with my baby?

eta-we are a somewhat nudist family. just for POV

[Synchro246]

I absolutely agree with this! And it will get even more interesting after the baby is born. My DD1 was only nursing every few days before her sister was born (mainly because it was so uncomfortable for me). After her sister was born and the milk was back full force, she wanted to nurse 24/7. So she learned even more - about sharing with her sister and waiting her turn (I could never nurse them at the same time) AND about understanding that she needed to listen to me and could only nurse certain times of the day. :D

I don't know why (well it probably is because I'm pregnant) but I got teary eyed reading your post.:o

[arly1983]

sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.....and nursing baby is just a nursing baby

My own problem with public nursing, I don't want anyone to see my breasts I have stretch marks on every inch of them. I don't even like to see them. (in my past life I was extremely obese and now weigh 140 lbs, I am sure you can imagine)

[oxeye]

I don't know why (well it probably is because I'm pregnant) but I got teary eyed reading your post.:o
Awww. Seriously - tandem nursing is wonderful. It was hard the first week or so while the older one was learning the new limits, but it was completely worth it! We tandemed for 14 months. :)

[LovinMyBabies]

I love that I stuck it out during pregnancy to tandem. My two nursing babies are so close! My older son loves her so much because he can share with her.

[Niea]

I don't think I'd personally nurse at age 7, but then again I never thought I'd nurse past age 1 (and we're approaching 2 now). I don't have any problems with those that do want to. You can't make a child nurse so I see no problem with allowing a child who does want to, continue. But it's one of those things. . .you can't judge until you've been there.

This video has been posted at several other forums I visit and inevitably there are quite a few who are disgusted by it. It makes me sad and angry to hear how people can be so disgusted by a natural process and yet, at the same time, think formula is okay. I'd much rather see every mother nurse their 7 year old than give a bottles of formula.

[joolsplus3]

Only someone who has never breastfed past infancy would think it's the same thing to pump and give it in a cup. Might as well hand a 3 month old a potty and toss the diapers because that's pretty much how different breast vs cup is for a nursing child.>>

LOL, yeah, but read some Elimination Communication info and you'll see that babies would in fact rather pee in the potty than soil themselves. We have to work just as hard to train babies to pee in their pants as we do to get them to drink liquids that don't come from the boob ;)

But I get your point, anyway, I just couldn't let that go, even as only a part time EC'er :D

[BABYGIRLLYNDSEY]

I'm totally pro breastfeeding. I will always regret not being able to breastfeed my youngest for very long. I quit my job to be home with her and had totally planned on breastfeeding her for a long time. Due to some health issues I had I could not feed her but only a few months. I totally envy those moms that can. On the other hand, while I worked at the bank we actually had a couple who in the middle of the mortgage application process their 5 year old son was getting hungry. The father told her to feed him so she whipped out her very large breast and the child stood next to the chair and ate. Now, how hard do you think it is when you are supposed to be conducting the interview for the mortgage? :o I think she should have excused herself.

[joolsplus3]

I'm totally pro breastfeeding. I will always regret not being able to breastfeed my youngest for very long. I quit my job to be home with her and had totally planned on breastfeeding her for a long time. Due to some health issues I had I could not feed her but only a few months. I totally envy those moms that can. On the other hand, while I worked at the bank we actually had a couple who in the middle of the mortgage application process their 5 year old son was getting hungry. The father told her to feed him so she whipped out her very large breast and the child stood next to the chair and ate. Now, how hard do you think it is when you are supposed to be conducting the interview for the mortgage? :o I think she should have excused herself.

Eeeeeewwwww! I almost DIED of embarrassment when my one week old baby HAD to eat when I was signing mortgage papers... there's just SO much difference between a one week old and a 5 yo (duh? give him some crackers or a gameboy? lol)

:D

[Niea]

I'm totally pro breastfeeding. I will always regret not being able to breastfeed my youngest for very long. I quit my job to be home with her and had totally planned on breastfeeding her for a long time. Due to some health issues I had I could not feed her but only a few months. I totally envy those moms that can. On the other hand, while I worked at the bank we actually had a couple who in the middle of the mortgage application process their 5 year old son was getting hungry. The father told her to feed him so she whipped out her very large breast and the child stood next to the chair and ate. Now, how hard do you think it is when you are supposed to be conducting the interview for the mortgage? :o I think she should have excused herself.

If my DD's still nursing at 5, I'll ask her to wait. A 5 year old is more than capable of understanding that she can't nurse now, but can when we get home.

But for what it's worth, I nursed my DD a few months ago while getting the financing for my new car. I tried to get DD to wait, but it was 8pm and she was tired and hungry and cranky. I think I did it discreetly, but the two guys helping us probably went on some forum and talked about us ;)

[Starlight]

I wouldn't have any trouble nursing my 11 month old during a mortgage interview thingy, but would not do my 5 yr old.

5 yr old can eat some crackers at the bank, get some milkies at home (my 5 yr old is not bf, but still.) My 11 month old, milk is still 90% of his food, so I wouldn't deny him.

[didymama]

http://www.sleepingbaby.net/jan/Essays/guilt.html

read this. this got me through my FF "guilt" with my oldest. i think it is aa great explaination.

[papooses]

Leila self weaned just before her 4th birthday -- it's now just after her 5th birthday & the leche has obviously been dried up for some time ... but about once a month she asks to nurse. Even chance we'll be in public, but I just say "at home" & give her something else to do. I don't think anyone else has ever even realized what our conversation was about :p But, I did nurse her during the signing of my mortgage when she was 3. Poor kid just came from nursery school & our routine was always to nurse, then play. She was very into her routines then. There was no way we'd have gotten through that meeting if I hadn't nursed her & I knew that if I excused myself to nurse in private Leila would have taken longer with my undivided attention, so it was less rude in that situation to just get the job done like it's a part of life (because it is)

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[UlrikeDG]

I tandem nursed a 5 year old and a 7 year old. You can guess my opinion on the matter from there.

[remken]

I weaned Remy right before his 4th birthday also. He still forgets sometimes at night that he doesn't nurse anymore and start to get into position 4 months later also.

[UlrikeDG]

The thing is, to me, you see that same little baby at the same place nursing on your chest, and they grow a little every day, and you don't really notice they've gone from newborn to toddler to kid, because the change is so gradual.

This is exactly true! I never went into it thinking, "I'll be nursing a 3 year old." I knew I'd go a minimum of 1 year, because that was "recommended" and then I read some more and discovered that 2 years was the "recommended" minimum, so I went with that. And, by the time you're nursing a 2 year old, you realize how ludicrous the random "maximums" are, and 3 seems fine. And if you've done it for 3 years, and things are going well, what difference does it make if you go four? And by four, chances are no one knows you're "still" nursing, and even if people do criticize, well, you've been dealing with it for four years, so it's all old hat. And, so it goes.

[didymama]

I tandem nursed a 5 year old and a 7 year old. You can guess my opinion on the matter from there.
:cool!: :2thumbsup: :bow: that about covers it!

[UlrikeDG]

Eeeeeewwwww! I almost DIED of embarrassment when my one week old baby HAD to eat when I was signing mortgage papers...

That's just so sad! :(

[UlrikeDG]

(AND another point about healthy vs. damage: I imagine that my son is learning a lot about how to negotiate and respect boundries right now in our nursing dance.)

:thumbsup: Well said!

I frequently get on my soapbox over the whole Don't Offer, Don't Refuse thing that is recommended after A Certain Age. That's so unnatural! I much prefer Occasionally Offer, Occasionally Refuse. With DO/DR, you put the child 100% in charge of the relationship. By what stretch of the imagination is *that* healthy? OO/OR says, "Sometimes I won't feel like it, and it's ok for me to say, 'No, not right now,' and sometimes, I will see that you need it, and I'll say, 'Hey, ya wanna?' and we'll work it out together."

[papooses]

LOL ... so true :D

[papooses]

I stopped offering at 3 *except* when it was obvious that nursing would help somehow & yet she wasn't reaching the conclusion on her own -- it always did help.... & yes I refused at times: depending on each of our moods + the specific circumstance. The refusal was always logical & easily explained so it didn't seem like some random chaotic abandonment type thing to her :rolleyes: It comes down to knowing yourself & your child, guiding our children to know & respect themselves & others.

[Mumoflittleguys]

The thing is, to me, you see that same little baby at the same place nursing on your chest, and they grow a little every day, and you don't really notice they've gone from newborn to toddler to kid, because the change is so gradual.

Exactly. Big nursed until he was 3 years and 2 months. We weaned by mutual agreement, as I was pregnant with this baby, and we were both ready. Small's still nursing (today's his 2nd birthday), although he'll be cutting back even more, as late-pregnancy complaints (like super sore nipples) start to factor in in a big way. I don't know when he'll wean for good, but it will be when the time is right. I quite honestly hated tandem nursing, but I did it for 17 months because that's what my oldest needed.

I don't personally see myself nursing a 7 year old, but if one of my kids needs it, it'll happen.

[mommy4girls]

This is exactly true! I never went into it thinking, "I'll be nursing a 3 year old." I knew I'd go a minimum of 1 year, because that was "recommended" and then I read some more and discovered that 2 years was the "recommended" minimum, so I went with that. And, by the time you're nursing a 2 year old, you realize how ludicrous the random "maximums" are, and 3 seems fine. And if you've done it for 3 years, and things are going well, what difference does it make if you go four? And by four, chances are no one knows you're "still" nursing, and even if people do criticize, well, you've been dealing with it for four years, so it's all old hat. And, so it goes.

Yep!! I remember being at a toddler LLL group and seeing one of the leaders nurse her 4y/o and I thought, "I'll never do that, 2's fine, but FOUR?":eek: Well.... Ilana turns 5 in May :p

At our church playgroup last week one of the moms was talking about how her 4y/o SIL still has a pacifier and just moved to the "big girl bed" and another mom said, "She's not STILL breastfeeding, is she? If that was the case I'd faint". :mad: I just kept my mouth shut. It really protrayed our society though. Although as I've told other people, there are a lot more of "us" than you think :whistle:

[scatterbunny]

Sarah, totally OT, but I love your signature--your girls are all so pretty! :)

[Jordynsmama]

I think 4-5 is fine, (I wouldnt feel comfortable) but I don't think it is wrong or could cause any issues necessarily so that is totally a personal choice.... But by 7, socially and psychologically children are at a different level, and have gotten to much information and our society does not mix with a breastfeeding 7 yr old-it could and probably would cause psych. problems. I am finishing with my degree in child and family development and have taken a lot of psych. courses, and from that standpoint can say that it probably would for sure-7 yr olds don't "need" to breastfeed so I am not exactly sure I get that. They may say they need it or think they need it. I can only imagine a 7 yr old who is so used it it is becoming like an addiction. I mean I guess if they never stopped or were weaned they would just keep doing it. That doesn't mean they need it.
And socially it cannot be healthy-maybe you may feel, "so what? I don't care what people say" but you have to think about how that affects a child's psychosocial development and overall well being. If health-wise it is important to a parent, which at that point that should be the only reason, than they can drink from a cup. The being close with mom and bonding has been completed by age 2, I would say.
Breastfeeding a 7 yr old is inappropriate to me, not b/c it grosses me out or it bothers me, but because I think that it is not good for the child in more ways than it is good. I think extended breastfeeding is fine and good to a point-but I think at some point people need to understand that while you may not think it's "this or that", or you may say breasts are not sexual, ect, ect....it needs to be understood that we live in a society that says they are- and that will cause issues with a breastfeeding a 7 yr old. And that is my only concern with it. I am just entitled to feel that way as someone is to feel it is wonderful, but am definitely not trying to disrespect anyone. This is honestly my true opinion based on what I know, so please do not let this upset you if you do not agree.

[snowbird25ca]

Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised by how many moms around here bf past age 1 and 2.

I planned to let my dd self wean, and she did, but it was really only because my milk dried up and she started getting frustrated. Then her first taste of colostrum was the last. She was a few days shy of 22mos old. And it was really really hard on me, knowing that she weaned because she wanted milk and it just wasn't there... She really quit being a comfort nurser around 18mos or so and wanted to go to sleep without nursing, so until that point her nursing was truly about nourishment and comfort, but once she was full she'd had enough...

Anyways, I was really conflicted about the idea of tandem nursing, and then never ended up facing the decision in the end. I plan on letting ds self wean, but dh thinks past 2 or 2.5 is kind of odd. Mind you, until dd reached 1yr old, I figured I'd wean her at 1 yr, so maybe if ds still wants to nurse at 2.5 or 3, dh won't find it weird by then. I was very surprised as dd got older that nursing her as a 18mo old wasn't any different than nursing her as a newborn... and I don't see that that would've changed as she got to 4 or 5.

Could I nurse a 7yr old? I honestly don't know. It did seem really weird to see the video, but I think it's because like Splash said, it seems like an intrusion and it's just something you don't expect to see. I think by that age it should be private.

But to each their own. I think we never truly know what we're going to do until we get there. :thumbsup:

[thepeach80]

Sarah, I have an Ilana too! I would be thrilled if she's as pretty as yours and nurses to at least 2. :)

I see no problems w/ extended bfing, but I think it's one of those things you'll never understand until you do it. AJ weaned at 13 mos when I was pg. I decided to wean Evan to rx formula at 12 mos (that he took in a bottle till he was 2 ;) ) and we're having problems w/ supply w/ Ilana but I think we have it under control for the mosat part and there's no reason to think she'll be weaning soon. Yay! I have lots of friends who bf till 3+ so I have support and have seen it so I think that helps.

[mommy4girls]

Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised by how many moms around here bf past age 1 and 2.
:thumbsup:
But to each their own. I think we never truly know what we're going to do until we get there. :thumbsup:
Exactly. I always thought I'd bfeed till 2, but no more. Here I am...

Jen, thanks :) Hayley's beautiful too.

[CandCfam]

Yes, it's private, but think of it this way: she's getting the message out there that it isn't shameful or wrong. That it can be normal. So many parents don't realize that extended BF is normal, just like they don't realize that extended RF is normal. Yes, one doesn't need to be in the public eye, but if it isn't, how will more people become aware?

:yeahthat:

I don't think I'd be comfortable nursing for that long, but Taylor is still occasionally nursing, mostly weaned, at almost 39 months.
She still receives immune benefits from nursing.
She was getting at least 90% of her nutrition at 2 years old. She just didn't care for table foods at all, so for anyone who says there are no nutritional benefits beyond X months/years old, is well, horribly wrong.
I've nursed Taylor through gastro bugs, when nothing else would stay down, and I've nursed her through 4 flu seasons, of which she never got the flu.

ETA: McKenzie weaned at just over 14 months - I was 4 months preggo with Taylor, and my milk dried up, and she had no interest in being at an empty breast.
She has had many more health issues than Taylor. I only wish I would have been open to the idea of tandem nursing so that McKenzie would have had the benefits of breastmilk longer than she did. I would go back and offer her the option of nursing after Taylor was born.

It's very sad that people view breastfeeding as wrong and weird. :(

[UlrikeDG]

I think 4-5 is fine, (I wouldnt feel comfortable) but I don't think it is wrong or could cause any issues necessarily so that is totally a personal choice.... But by 7, socially and psychologically children are at a different level, and have gotten to much information and our society does not mix with a breastfeeding 7 yr old-it could and probably would cause psych. problems. I am finishing with my degree in child and family development and have taken a lot of psych. courses, and from that standpoint can say that it probably would for sure-7 yr olds don't "need" to breastfeed so I am not exactly sure I get that.

My husband has a degree in psychology, and I was a psych major before I stopped taking classes to be a SAHM. Your educational background really isn't helpful in this situation. If you want to read actual *research* about breastfeeding beyond infancy, I recommend Kathy Dettwyler's work (http://www.kathydettwyler.org/dettwyler.html).

Seven year olds aren't being inundated with anti-extended nursing messages. As a society on the whole, we're bombarded with bottles for infants, but no one thinks to preach at kids (or their mothers, really) not to nurse a 4-, 5-, 6- year old, because everyone assumes you "stopped doing that" when the kid was 6 months old.

It's not like school propaganda, where every single children's show & book, starting from age 3, is all about how awesome school is and how the child should be looking forward to going and glossing over all the problems with the school environment. School has a better advertising engine than freaking MCDONALDS! And that's saying something! Not-extended-nursing doesn't have that. 99% of the time, the only people who know a kid is still nursing at age 4+ are people who are supportive of it. "Societal pressure" is a non-issue.

Look at kids sitting in mom's or dad's lap. At what age do they become "too old"? No one would ever dream of setting a random age (Never past 3!) or weird boundary (When they're old enough to ask for it!). A variety of factors come into play. How much does the kid like sitting in laps? How heavy is he? How strong are the adults in his life? How much time does he spend with them? It doesn't matter that a child that age doesn't "need" to sit in a parent's lap (He's been capable of sitting by himself since he was 6 months old!). It's not about *need*. It's about *relationship*.

[Niea]

The being close with mom and bonding has been completed by age 2, I would say.


Interesting comment. Do you have any research to back it up?

[amy919]

[QUOTE=CandCfam;117206...I've nursed Taylor through gastro bugs, when nothing else would stay down, and I've nursed her through 4 flu seasons, of which she never got the flu.

ETA: McKenzie weaned at just over 14 months - I was 4 months preggo with Taylor, and my milk dried up, and she had no interest in being at an empty breast.
She has had many more health issues than Taylor. I only wish I would have been open to the idea of tandem nursing so that McKenzie would have had the benefits of breastmilk longer than she did. I would go back and offer her the option of nursing after Taylor was born.

It's very sad that people view breastfeeding as wrong and weird. :([/QUOTE]

I'm not picking on you here, but I hear comments quite often about how FF babies are sick so much more frequently than BF babies. Personally, I think that's crap. I do agree that BF has benefits in terms of immunities - when it comes to certain things. For instance, my MIL watched Kaylie full time until she was 3. My MIL came down the shingles when K was 6 months old. My Pedi gave me hell and a complete guilt trip becuase she wasn't BF. Told me that if she was, she would have been immune and we wouldn't have anything to worry about. Now, because she was FF, she had to get the chicken pox vaccine early (and then again on schedule).

As for Kaylie being a sick child, she is now 4 years old, has had 2 ear infections in her life and has been sick so few times I can count them on one hand.

My neice who was exclusively BF is constantly sick. Because she is BF? Absolutely not! Because she just IS. I don't think it has anything to do with being BF or FF.

Just my :twocents: , not meant to offend.

Amy

[CandCfam]

I'm not picking on you here, but I hear comments quite often about how FF babies are sick so much more frequently than BF babies. Personally, I think that's crap. I do agree that BF has benefits in terms of immunities - when it comes to certain things. For instance, my MIL watched Kaylie full time until she was 3. My MIL came down the shingles when K was 6 months old. My Pedi gave me hell and a complete guilt trip becuase she wasn't BF. Told me that if she was, she would have been immune and we wouldn't have anything to worry about. Now, because she was FF, she had to get the chicken pox vaccine early (and then again on schedule).

As for Kaylie being a sick child, she is now 4 years old, has had 2 ear infections in her life and has been sick so few times I can count them on one hand.

My neice who was exclusively BF is constantly sick. Because she is BF? Absolutely not! Because she just IS. I don't think it has anything to do with being BF or FF.

Just my :twocents: , not meant to offend.

Amy

Who says your neice wouldn't be even more sick if she weren't BF?

BFing DOES provide antibodies. It's a fact.
The fact that I have been able to nurse sick kiddos and provide everything their bodies needed at all times, has been extremely valuable to us.

I never said FF babies are sick more often, you are reading into my post something that is not there. I was stating facts in my experience with MY children.:twocents:

[thepeach80]

Amy, I'm sorry you have a dumb dr (not anything against you, but I'm a little anti-dr sometimes). :) He should not have made you feel like that and he shouldn't have given your dd the vax early. It's not made for children under 1 (like rfing, lol) and there was no way of knowing what would've happened. Also, did he mention the cp vax is live and could actually give her cp or that she could only get cp from your mom if she had been in direct contact w/ one of the open shingles sores?

I always joke my kids are the sickest bf kids ever! :p I think for MY kids, it just takes them a while to catch up to their immune system or something as AJ has been great since turning 3.

[tiggercat]

What an interesting thread.

- pumping for a toddler/preschooler is hard. very hard. Anyone who has actually done this would not say "just put it in a cup at that age". It is not that simple. I relactated and exclusively pumped for my son from 17-23m because he weaned early and still needed the immune boost from breastmilk as evidenced by repeated illness for severalo months after weaning. Many tears and frustration and hard work during that time of my life. I was also a full time university student so I pumped in many an office and bathroom.

- I was also pleasantly surprised to hear from so many moms nursing preschoolers and school aged kids. Please speak up, us toddler nursing moms need you support :-)

- numbers are so arbitrary! so 2, 3 maybe 4 are ok but 5-6-7 aren't? I just don't get that.

- society may say breastfeeding a school aged child is inappropriate, but societal norms only change when people change them.

- If society says breasts are sexual, then what difference does it make how old the child is? Wouldn't nursing an infant with a sexualized breast be also inappropriate?

- breasts are sexual. why is that such a big deal? they do bring sexual pleasure when used in that context. How does that negate their use as a nurturing/immune boosting/nutritional tool, or make such use in appropriate regardless of the child's age?

Natalie, CRST and nursing Mama.

[Niea]

I'm not picking on you here, but I hear comments quite often about how FF babies are sick so much more frequently than BF babies. Personally, I think that's crap.

Statistically, formula-fed infants are more sick than breast-fed infants. But that's statistically. You can't make a conclusion based on such a small sample size (ie, the people you know). But if you're going to play the odds, why not play those that are in your favor? Isn't that what we do here at carseat.org? Chances are our kids won't be involved in a severe accident but in the off-chance they are, don't we want them as safe as possible? Otherwise, why not FF at 1 yr and move to a booster at 2 -- because if you ask most people they'll say they don't know any FF 1 yr olds who died in an accient so the statistics are "crap".

[Splash]

Look at kids sitting in mom's or dad's lap. At what age do they become "too old"? No one would ever dream of setting a random age (Never past 3!) or weird boundary (When they're old enough to ask for it!). A variety of factors come into play. How much does the kid like sitting in laps? How heavy is he? How strong are the adults in his life? How much time does he spend with them? It doesn't matter that a child that age doesn't "need" to sit in a parent's lap (He's been capable of sitting by himself since he was 6 months old!). It's not about *need*. It's about *relationship*.

I think I love you. :love:

[Patriot201]

My husband has a degree in psychology, and I was a psych major before I stopped taking classes to be a SAHM. Your educational background really isn't helpful in this situation. If you want to read actual *research* about breastfeeding beyond infancy, I recommend Kathy Dettwyler's work (http://www.kathydettwyler.org/dettwyler.html).

Seven year olds aren't being inundated with anti-extended nursing messages. As a society on the whole, we're bombarded with bottles for infants, but no one thinks to preach at kids (or their mothers, really) not to nurse a 4-, 5-, 6- year old, because everyone assumes you "stopped doing that" when the kid was 6 months old.

It's not like school propaganda, where every single children's show & book, starting from age 3, is all about how awesome school is and how the child should be looking forward to going and glossing over all the problems with the school environment. School has a better advertising engine than freaking MCDONALDS! And that's saying something! Not-extended-nursing doesn't have that. 99% of the time, the only people who know a kid is still nursing at age 4+ are people who are supportive of it. "Societal pressure" is a non-issue.

Look at kids sitting in mom's or dad's lap. At what age do they become "too old"? No one would ever dream of setting a random age (Never past 3!) or weird boundary (When they're old enough to ask for it!). A variety of factors come into play. How much does the kid like sitting in laps? How heavy is he? How strong are the adults in his life? How much time does he spend with them? It doesn't matter that a child that age doesn't "need" to sit in a parent's lap (He's been capable of sitting by himself since he was 6 months old!). It's not about *need*. It's about *relationship*.

My B.S. is in Psychology (with a focus on child psychopathology) and I have several Masters-level classes in Psychology and Human Development. I too have never heard that BF for "too long" (:confused:) is "damaging" to a child's psyche.

I :love: your analogy to lap-sitting. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :) :)

[BABYGIRLLYNDSEY]

I don't want you guys to think that I'm not pro for breastfeeding a older child and I have had tons of moms that have breastfed their children in my office, even a mom with a 3 yr old. Her daughter cuddled on her lap and everything was hidden. I just have an issue with the mom whipping the WHOLE giant boob out and the child standing there suckling. It's hard not to giggle and keep eye contact with your customer. Maybe because I'm a flat chested woman, I know my eyes popped out of my head! :eek: :D

[amy919]

Who says your neice wouldn't be even more sick if she weren't BF?

BFing DOES provide antibodies. It's a fact.
The fact that I have been able to nurse sick kiddos and provide everything their bodies needed at all times, has been extremely valuable to us.

I never said FF babies are sick more often, you are reading into my post something that is not there. I was stating facts in my experience with MY children.:twocents:

I didn't mean to imply that YOU were saying that FF babies were sick more often ;). I was only saying that I hear this comment quite often. I didn't get that from your post at all. I have seen many stastics (because I CHOSE not to BF my kids, people see me as anti-BF and feel it's their job to inform me of the many benefits). I agree that there are many medical benefits. I don't think anyone can refute this based on research.

I made the choice not to BF knowing that it provided medical benefits to my children, but I do believe that with the exception of immunities, FF is just as good. I do not believe that anyone who BFs their child has more of a bond to their child than I do. (Truthfully, that's my biggest pet peeve of the whole BF v FF argument - not that it was brought up here).

Personally, I don't believe my neice would be more sick if she was FF. I think it's just the way it is. Some kids are more prone to ear infections than others, for example. I don't think that has anything to do with BF or not. But that's my personal opinion. I'm not an expert on the subject.

[amy919]

Amy, I'm sorry you have a dumb dr (not anything against you, but I'm a little anti-dr sometimes). :) He should not have made you feel like that and he shouldn't have given your dd the vax early. It's not made for children under 1 (like rfing, lol) and there was no way of knowing what would've happened. Also, did he mention the cp vax is live and could actually give her cp or that she could only get cp from your mom if she had been in direct contact w/ one of the open shingles sores?

I always joke my kids are the sickest bf kids ever! :p I think for MY kids, it just takes them a while to catch up to their immune system or something as AJ has been great since turning 3.


Just to clarify, our regular pedi was away and this guy was a fill-in. He would never be my pedi and I will never see him again. I refused to give the vaccine at 6 months knowing that it was a live virus and chose to take my chances that she would be OK - and she was. It was a huge battle and I don't want to hijack this thread, but I will say that my pedi's office no longer uses his as a back-up. I caused a very big stink about it. His job was to treat my child, not berate me.

[lovinwaves]

I do not believe that anyone who BFs their child has more of a bond to their child than I do

ITA :)

[Niea]

I do not believe that anyone who BFs their child has more of a bond to their child than I do.

I don't have any personal experience because I only have one child and she's BFing. So I absolutely have no basis of comparison.

But, it's pretty interesting what two of my friends say -- both who do have personal experience with both bottle feeding and breastfeeding. The first girl, exclusively pumped for her son because he did not latch. She fed him her breastmilk in a bottle until he was a year old. Her second son did not have any latch problems and she fed him from the tap. Now that the youngest is 2, she says that she hates to admit it but she does think that breastfeeding from the tap provides more than nutrition -- that she really did bond more with her second son.

The second girl I know, chose to FF her first son. She did not attempt to BF because she didn't want to. But then by the time she had her second son, she decided to "try" BFing, but only for a few weeks. She ended up having low supply and had to switch to formula. But she continued nursing between feedings, for "comfort". And now at almost a year, her son still nurses exclusively for comfort (she doesn't have any milk). She also has admitted recently that BFing was totally different than FF and again, she feels more bonded and connected with her second son than her first.

Both friends say that they still love their first children more than anything and it doesn't have anything to do with love, but did admit that BFing provided something more that bottle-feeding (whether formula or breastmilk) could not provide. And neither of them felt anything "missing" with their first children, but now they have a different experience with their seconds, they see the difference.

Now, I can't say this is true for you. Obviously I don't know you or your baby. I'm sure you're very well bonded and I have no question about that. All I can relay is what my friend's have said and that I thought their words were very interesting.

[amy919]

I don't have any personal experience because I only have one child and she's BFing. So I absolutely have no basis of comparison.

But, it's pretty interesting what two of my friends say -- both who do have personal experience with both bottle feeding and breastfeeding. The first girl, exclusively pumped for her son because he did not latch. She fed him her breastmilk in a bottle until he was a year old. Her second son did not have any latch problems and she fed him from the tap. Now that the youngest is 2, she says that she hates to admit it but she does think that breastfeeding from the tap provides more than nutrition -- that she really did bond more with her second son.

The second girl I know, chose to FF her first son. She did not attempt to BF because she didn't want to. But then by the time she had her second son, she decided to "try" BFing, but only for a few weeks. She ended up having low supply and had to switch to formula. But she continued nursing between feedings, for "comfort". And now at almost a year, her son still nurses exclusively for comfort (she doesn't have any milk). She also has admitted recently that BFing was totally different than FF and again, she feels more bonded and connected with her second son than her first.

Both friends say that they still love their first children more than anything and it doesn't have anything to do with love, but did admit that BFing provided something more that bottle-feeding (whether formula or breastmilk) could not provide. And neither of them felt anything "missing" with their first children, but now they have a different experience with their seconds, they see the difference.

Now, I can't say this is true for you. Obviously I don't know you or your baby. I'm sure you're very well bonded and I have no question about that. All I can relay is what my friend's have said and that I thought their words were very interesting.

That is interesting. I would think that the feeling of bonding (or lack thereof) in these two cases would be solely on the mothers' side, though. I doubt their children feel any more or less bonded to their mothers. I'm not taking anything away from the mothers' feelings, mind you, I'm just talking about the kids.

I never even attempted to BF either of my children, so it's unfair of me to say that there's no difference in how they bonded. Obviously, you know 2 people who did have different experiences.

But no one is going to convince me that I'm not bonded to my child to the fullest extent possible because I fed them from a bottle, not a boob. (not that you're saying this - just a general statement:))

[Niea]

That is interesting. I would think that the feeling of bonding (or lack thereof) in these two cases would be solely on the mothers' side, though. I doubt their children feel any more or less bonded to their mothers. I'm not taking anything away from the mothers' feelings, mind you, I'm just talking about the kids.

I never even attempted to BF either of my children, so it's unfair of me to say that there's no difference in how they bonded. Obviously, you know 2 people who did have different experiences.

But no one is going to convince me that I'm not bonded to my child to the fullest extent possible because I fed them from a bottle, not a boob. (not that you're saying this - just a general statement:))


Oh absolutely! In both cases the siblings are closely spaced so I doubt the older one would even know he was fed differently. So yeah, I don't think the kids feel any different and it probably is all just the mothers' feelings.

And you're absolutely right -- no one can say you're not bonded fully to your child! I'll be honest and say that I had horrific PPD after having DD and although I still BFd her, there were no bonding moments there. And I know some very loving mamas who bottlefed and did so just like nursing (always held baby, talked lovingly during feedings, etc) and they are very loving and bonded mamas.

So it really goes back to statistics -- "they" say statistically breastfed mamas are more bonded. But obviously on a case-by-case basis, we find lots of holes in this theory. :)

[skaterbabscpst]

I made the choice not to BF knowing that it provided medical benefits to my children, but I do believe that with the exception of immunities, FF is just as good.

But it's not. Even from strictly a nutrition standpoint FF is inferior.
BF provides NO "benefits", it's the biological norm, so every so-called "benefit" to BF is actually a side-effect of FF.

[Morganthe]

I don't want you guys to think that I'm not pro for breastfeeding a older child and I have had tons of moms that have breastfed their children in my office, even a mom with a 3 yr old. Her daughter cuddled on her lap and everything was hidden. I just have an issue with the mom whipping the WHOLE giant boob out and the child standing there suckling. It's hard not to giggle and keep eye contact with your customer. Maybe because I'm a flat chested woman, I know my eyes popped out of my head! :eek: :D


Hey, I'm with you there! That had to be very off putting :eek: I nursed in public extensively with very large breasts. The side slit nursing outfits were silly for me. (good for small breasted women, I think) I'd just tuck up the bottom of my shirt between her mouth & nose. She wouldn't tolerate a head cover and I can't blame her. I don't think anyone ever saw skin. I didn't want to see it either :p
DD gained this terrible habit of pushing up my shirt, but I'd hand her a little baby towel to maneuver. If she persisted, I'd stop. So she learned quickly -- no acrobatics in public!



I'm starting to think, though, that I"m the ONLY mother who didn't bf'd her child during a Mortgage process :p We had the laptop & headphones for 2 1/2 year old dd on the floor. She'd sit in the corner watching a favorite movie in the office while we were blah blah blah blahing away all those meetings in the house search process..
A real lifesaver :D

[rlsadc]

wow this is quite the hot topic...

aleah is still only 9 months, but i am already starting to get looks when she pulls my shirt down or when im nursing...

aleah will nurse until SHE is ready to quit. and i am confident that she will let me know when she is ready. i henestly feel like it is a duty of mine to provide my milk for my child, and when she doesnt want it anymore, my duty is done. i know that some moms just wnat to get to 6 weeks or 6 months (these were two of my goals when i first started, 6 weeks was when i went back to work, and 6 months was when i thought she would start eating more solids) and i can tottally relate...it has been a struggle to keep nursing aleah (much less of a struggle than cleaning bottle severyday though :p IMO) There are times when im just like okay kid, i need some space, but i have to remember that one day shell give me more than i want....:( so i try to enjoy it while i can.

so i dont think that there is any age that a child has nursed enough....i loved the sitting on the lap analogy...but even look at walking, talking...FFing...every child is diffent...some 3 year olds act like 7 year olds and vice versa...a child is ready to stop when they say so...IMO

[Synchro246]

:thumbsup: Well said!

I frequently get on my soapbox over the whole Don't Offer, Don't Refuse thing that is recommended after A Certain Age. That's so unnatural! I much prefer Occasionally Offer, Occasionally Refuse. With DO/DR, you put the child 100% in charge of the relationship. By what stretch of the imagination is *that* healthy? OO/OR says, "Sometimes I won't feel like it, and it's ok for me to say, 'No, not right now,' and sometimes, I will see that you need it, and I'll say, 'Hey, ya wanna?' and we'll work it out together."

I needed to hear this. I never thought of it that way and it makes so much sense.

[amy919]

But it's not. Even from strictly a nutrition standpoint FF is inferior.
BF provides NO "benefits", it's the biological norm, so every so-called "benefit" to BF is actually a side-effect of FF.

OK, I see your point. It's a good point and well taken on the "benefits" issue. Regardless, my children are not lacking, and never were, in terms of nutrition and are just as healthy and always have been as any BF baby, IMO.

[Gypsy]

I don't want you guys to think that I'm not pro for breastfeeding a older child and I have had tons of moms that have breastfed their children in my office, even a mom with a 3 yr old. Her daughter cuddled on her lap and everything was hidden. I just have an issue with the mom whipping the WHOLE giant boob out and the child standing there suckling. It's hard not to giggle and keep eye contact with your customer. Maybe because I'm a flat chested woman, I know my eyes popped out of my head! :eek: :D

So your issue is with the woman's breast size? maybe you should get some therapy to get over your jealousy of large breasts?

[Splash]

Breast is not best.
http://www.motherchronicle.com/watchyourlanguage.html

Seriously. I hate that term. Breastfeeding is not better than formula feeding. Formula feeding is worse than breast feeding. Breast fed children are not healthier, formula fed children are sicker. Mothers who brest feed aren't less likely to get cancer, mothers who formula feed are more likely to get cancer. Breast fed children do not have higher IQs, formula fed children have lower IQs.

There are NO benefits to breastfeeding. There are disadvantages to formula feeding. To act like breast feeding is better is to imply that formula feeding is the norm, or that formula feeding is good enough and breast feeding is better. No, breast feeding is good enough and formula feeding is less. It's not a judgment or a guilt trip, it's basic language.

[XmasEve]

So, I've been wondering something...

What do you think reactions would be if she was still breastfeeding her 7yo son? Or do you think reactions would be the same?

Just curious.

[Splash]

In what country?

In most of the world, no one would think anything of it.

In the US, she'd probably be arrested.

[rlsadc]

Wow, this thread is getting a little hostile. I think that we all need to respect others views and opinions on feeding our own children.

[Jordynsmama]

Like I said , just my opinion- I certainly don't know if breastfeeding a 7 yr old causing issues, but imo think it could. 7 yrs old is starting a whole different mind set, where children's thinking changes in many ways psychologically and I am sure many people know that, which is why I said 4-5 is probably fine from that standpoint, but not 7. Then why not bf a 10 yr old or 12 yr old? I mean obviously there is a line, and I think 5 is a good place to draw it b/c of all the reasons I mentioned. There is a BIG difference between the way a 5 yr olds brain works and a 7 yr olds brain works. And 4-5 yr olds are not in elementary school yet, they are not being socialized the same way and it is just different period. If anyone wants to argue that it is pointless.
Even some 4-5 yr olds are exposed to too much these days, believe me I have seen it-
Sex is so disgustingly such an emphasis these days and there is no shame in exposing children too it, especially in the media, but even at home for some people. And that is why I just feel it could cause issues, and would not want to personally risk it, nor would I want anyones child to have issues due to something they themselves couldn't determine at the age of 7.
What I am implying about the sexual issue, is from the child's POV, not anyone else's. A baby, toddler, or 4 yr old isn't aware of breasts being a sexual, but most 7 yr olds are, so it could cause internal issues for them. That is what I mean actually-
And that is out of your control.
Today it is really hard to shelter kids from sexuality when shows like nip tuck are allowed to air..and commercials talking about ky jelly are just out there like its nothing. I mean I cannot believe they allow this stuff. So I moniter as best as possible in all aspects, but a lot of people don't, and their kids see way too much and learn quick. Plus at 7 kids are just getting interested in that stuff. If your kids go to public school, at 7, the stuff they are being exposed to is really questionable.
So anyway, my opinion is just that it could cause issues based on all that. It's not really arguable, it is just mere facts, whether we like it or not.

[joolsplus3]

That's just so sad! :(


IT IS sad that I was so embarrased to nurse my new baby, I agree. Boy, since then, I've fed babies darn near everywhere (did you see me at the Smithsonian? Right at the bench by the front entrance under the giant Mammoth? Woman nursing 10 month old: the exhibit)


:D

[Morganthe]

If I'm not mistaken, breast feeding the 7 year old wasn't the issue in the OP's video. She had stopped of her own accord earlier, I didn't catch when. When she was reminiscing, she was enjoying the memory of the experience. It was only the 5 year old who was still nursing.
:)

[momof3princes]

Like I said , just my opinion- I certainly don't know if breastfeeding a 7 yr old causing issues, but imo think it could. 7 yrs old is starting a whole different mind set, where children's thinking changes in many ways psychologically and I am sure many people know that, which is why I said 4-5 is probably fine from that standpoint, but not 7. Then why not bf a 10 yr old or 12 yr old? I mean obviously there is a line, and I think 5 is a good place to draw it b/c of all the reasons I mentioned. There is a BIG difference between the way a 5 yr olds brain works and a 7 yr olds brain works. And 4-5 yr olds are not in elementary school yet, they are not being socialized the same way and it is just different period. If anyone wants to argue that it is pointless.
Even some 4-5 yr olds are exposed to too much these days, believe me I have seen it-
Sex is so disgustingly such an emphasis these days and there is no shame in exposing children too it, especially in the media, but even at home for some people. And that is why I just feel it could cause issues, and would not want to personally risk it, nor would I want anyones child to have issues due to something they themselves couldn't determine at the age of 7.
What I am implying about the sexual issue, is from the child's POV, not anyone else's. A baby, toddler, or 4 yr old isn't aware of breasts being a sexual, but most 7 yr olds are, so it could cause internal issues for them. That is what I mean actually-
And that is out of your control.
Today it is really hard to shelter kids from sexuality when shows like nip tuck are allowed to air..and commercials talking about ky jelly are just out there like its nothing. I mean I cannot believe they allow this stuff. So I moniter as best as possible in all aspects, but a lot of people don't, and their kids see way too much and learn quick. Plus at 7 kids are just getting interested in that stuff. If your kids go to public school, at 7, the stuff they are being exposed to is really questionable.
So anyway, my opinion is just that it could cause issues based on all that. It's not really arguable, it is just mere facts, whether we like it or not.

So, in your opinion, it would be wrong of me to nurse my 14 month old in front of my 7 year old without covering up? By the way, my 7 year old (who attends public school) does not know what sex is and knows breasts only as a way to feed the baby.

[murphydog77]

Due to the nature of this topic, please keep responses from being hostile. A friendly discussion is always welcome, but jabs are not.

[thepeach80]

If I'm not mistaken, breast feeding the 7 year old wasn't the issue in the OP's video. She had stopped of her own accord earlier, I didn't catch when. When she was reminiscing, she was enjoying the memory of the experience. It was only the 5 year old who was still nursing.
:)

No, the oldest nursed till 5 and the youngest is still bfing at 'nearly 8'.

[CandCfam]

If I'm not mistaken, breast feeding the 7 year old wasn't the issue in the OP's video. She had stopped of her own accord earlier, I didn't catch when. When she was reminiscing, she was enjoying the memory of the experience. It was only the 5 year old who was still nursing.
:)

It was the 7 year old who was still nursing. The other daughter weaned at 5.:)

[skaterbabscpst]

OK, I see your point. It's a good point and well taken on the "benefits" issue. Regardless, my children are not lacking, and never were, in terms of nutrition and are just as healthy and always have been as any BF baby, IMO.

You cannot possibly say that is true - you deliberately chose to give the (biologically speaking) inferior food source. If artificial baby milk better than startving? Absolutely. Is it equal to breastfeeding in ANY way? Absolutely not. It's a substitue, a replacement.

Formula feeding is not much different than moving your child FF as soon as the minimums are met, moving to a booster as soon as the minimums are met and moving to a seatbelt as soon as the minimums are met.

It's better than nothing, but it's not Best Practice.

[UlrikeDG]

Like I said , just my opinion- I certainly don't know if breastfeeding a 7 yr old causing issues, but imo think it could.

I have breastfed a 7 year old, and it didn't. :rolleyes:

By your logic, letting my 9 year old son play Pretty Pretty Princess with his little sisters could "cause issues" (what if someone finds out and teases him?), so I shouldn't let him do that. And letting my kids sleep in the same bed with each other (they have their own beds, but *choose* to sleep together) could "cause issues", so I should force them to sleep apart. And my son's friends hugging him when they see him at the park could "cause issues" (boys don't do that), so I should stop it from happening. And my kids and I aren't yet embarrassed by dressing or bathing in the same room with each other, but I should stop that, because it could "cause issues?"

Every child and every family is different. Eventually, these things will be outgrown, just as breastfeeding was. In the mean time, I'm glad my son is as willing to play games my daughters choose as they are to play the ones he prefers. I'm happy they find comfort in each other's presence. It makes me smile when their friends, girl and boy alike, can express their exuberance at seeing my kids without shame. I find it convenient that we can all use the same bathroom without locking the door and going one at a time.

[cpsaddict]

Wow, I am really not impressed with how nasty this thread has become. I think making anyone feel bad about their choices is just plain mean. :( This thread has taken a definate I'm right and you're wrong tone. Makes me think about how I come across to people I talk to about car seats. I really need to make sure that I don't speak down to them or make them feel ashamed for choices they have made.

We need to remember that we are here to educate, not preach. :o

It's just sad to me that seemingly mature adults have come to this over a personal choice. :confused:

[skaterbabscpst]

Safety issues are not parenting issues.

[joolsplus3]

Safety issues are not parenting issues.

No, but extended breastfeeding is :). And making sure to be gentle with people's feelings, as Jacky is reminding herself, is always A Good Thing.

:)

[Patriot201]

Wow, this thread is getting a little hostile. I think that we all need to respect others views and opinions on feeding our own children.


I absolutely agree.

[Patriot201]

If I'm not mistaken, breast feeding the 7 year old wasn't the issue in the OP's video. She had stopped of her own accord earlier, I didn't catch when. When she was reminiscing, she was enjoying the memory of the experience. It was only the 5 year old who was still nursing.
:)

Oh. I thought it was the other way around. I thought the almost 8-year-old was the one who was nursing? I will have to watch it again. I may be mixed up.

[Splash]

I don't think anyone has gotten hostile. I think some people are insecure about it and are choosing to feel guilty/attacked/what have you by basic statements.

No one, not one person, has said that mothers who choose to FF are bad mothers. Ever. It hasn't been stated, implied, anything. However, by BASIC FACT, formula is an inferior food source for an infant. If someone is confident in their choice to FF their child, then they can't feel attacked by basic truth.

There are people on this board who choose to turn their kids FF at 1 year old. We all think they're making a bad choice, but we don't berate them. By saying we're being nasty by stating that formula is an inferior food source, it's like saying we're being nasty when we tell people forward facing is less safe than rear facing. It's not a dig, it's a fact. And if someone is confident in the choice that they mde, they accept that instead of getting their back up and denying it and providing falsehoods. It's the parents being defensive by saying that formula feeding is just as good, they refuse to feel bad, etc, that are creating hostility. If one parent who formula fed stood up and said that she did it fully knowing the risks of formula feeding (just like the risks of premature forward facing) but made that choice because it was what she wanted for herself, then that would be that. I believe one person did say that, actually, and no one challenged it. But then other people have said "No I FF and you're wrong, formula is just as good as breast milk and anyone who says different is trying to judge me."
Facts don't lie. They're facts. FACT- Forward facing is more dangerous than rear facing. FACT- Smoking causes lung cancer. FACT- Formula is an inferior food choice for an infant.
Opinion- People who forward face their kids are bad parents. Opinion- Smokers are idiots. Opinion- Formula feeding mothers are selfish.
I'm not saying that those are or aren't MY opinions, just saying that they are opinions. Ones that have not been stated at all in this thread. The only thing THIS thread has addressed are the biological FACTS of breastmilk versus formula. If someone CHOOSES to take offense at that, no one can help it. It's not offensive. It's only offensive if the choice is not "owned" and the person is not confident in it.
You want militant breast feeders? Try asking ANYTHING about formula at MDC. Better yet, try asking about Rx formula for your severely allergic and immune compromised child who cannot process real food. THAT is brutal and hostile. This is just informational with some people choosing to be offended and feel judged by the information. But, in tune with car seats, it's not different than forward facing. Rear facing a six month old is the standard. Forward facing a six month old is by far less safe. Forward facing is better than nothing, but one cannot ignore the basic laws of physics and say there is no difference, just because they've never been in a wreck.

[ThreeBeans]

Well said, Splash :D

[LovinMyBabies]

I don't have any personal experience because I only have one child and she's BFing. So I absolutely have no basis of comparison.

But, it's pretty interesting what two of my friends say -- both who do have personal experience with both bottle feeding and breastfeeding. The first girl, exclusively pumped for her son because he did not latch. She fed him her breastmilk in a bottle until he was a year old. Her second son did not have any latch problems and she fed him from the tap. Now that the youngest is 2, she says that she hates to admit it but she does think that breastfeeding from the tap provides more than nutrition -- that she really did bond more with her second son.

The second girl I know, chose to FF her first son. She did not attempt to BF because she didn't want to. But then by the time she had her second son, she decided to "try" BFing, but only for a few weeks. She ended up having low supply and had to switch to formula. But she continued nursing between feedings, for "comfort". And now at almost a year, her son still nurses exclusively for comfort (she doesn't have any milk). She also has admitted recently that BFing was totally different than FF and again, she feels more bonded and connected with her second son than her first.

Both friends say that they still love their first children more than anything and it doesn't have anything to do with love, but did admit that BFing provided something more that bottle-feeding (whether formula or breastmilk) could not provide. And neither of them felt anything "missing" with their first children, but now they have a different experience with their seconds, they see the difference.

Now, I can't say this is true for you. Obviously I don't know you or your baby. I'm sure you're very well bonded and I have no question about that. All I can relay is what my friend's have said and that I thought their words were very interesting.

I didn't BF my first, and I BF my last two. There IS a bond you get from BFing that you don't get from FFing. I can totally admit it!! I love all my children the same, but there is a special bond I share with the ones I BF.

[broken4u05]

Oh. I thought it was the other way around. I thought the almost 8-year-old was the one who was nursing? I will have to watch it again. I may be mixed up.

The kids were like 7 and 9. The 7 year old was the one BF and than the 9 year old had stopped at 5 but was saying what it was like when she did BF.

[momof2kiddos]

I don't think anyone has gotten hostile. I think some people are insecure about it and are choosing to feel guilty/attacked/what have you by basic statements.



I agree with this statement to a point.I am a very proud ff mom,I chose to be.I don't feel attacked at all.I know that BF is better but I also know that formula isn't bad.It won't make my child less smarter or less healthier then any other child.I am bonded with my children and I love them dearly,if you think you bonded more with your bf babies well that's awesome,there is nothing like bonding with a baby,but like I said before I am bonded with my babies too,that is all that matters,not who bonded more with who.

I don't even understand why this thread is still going:confused:
If you BF kudos to you:thumbsup: if you FF kudos to you:thumbsup:
All of our children are beautiful,happy,healthy,and smart.We should all take pride in that,instead of talking about BF and FF and who did what and what is better and so on.It doesn't matter all of our children got fed and have thirved on what they were fed:D

[Yoshi]

Ok- food for thought.....

Please bear in mind that I was born in 1965 to a German mother who was raised during wartime in the days of "children are to be seen and not heard"

BUT, despite the fact that my mom formula fed me(and propped my bottle, I'm sure of it while watching her soaps), let me CIO, put me in a crib from day 1 home from the hospital, gave me solids at 3 months, SMOKED around me, spanked me from time to time, I still love her-always have been close- and we have a great bond!

Oh, but give her credit- she used cloth diapers!:p

[Synchro246]

So, I've been wondering something...

What do you think reactions would be if she was still breastfeeding her 7yo son? Or do you think reactions would be the same?

Just curious.
I don't know. The two kids I know happen to be boys. According to the author of Raising Cain (or was it Real Boys. . .) Boys tend to need their mom's a bit longer than society recognizes and even longer than girls on average.

It was the 7 year old who was still nursing. The other daughter weaned at 5.:)
Ok, is it weird to think that's weird? I mean, I know it doesn't really matter, but if I'm nursing only one of my kids it's going to be the youngest one (unless the youngest one is incapable for whatever reason--I wouldn't wean the older one just because the younger one *can't* nurse). I don't know I guess all kids are different and pushing away the older one just because the younger one was ready to move on wouldn't be prudent.




I do have to play devils advocate for the ones who believe that breastfeeding a 7 YO could cause problems. I believe it *can*, I believe most of the time Extended BF is done for fine reasons with an emotionally healthy mother, but I also don't think it's a wild stretch to think of a mom extending the BF relationship by some subconsious psychological manipulation of the child. However, I think this would be extremely rare in the world of extended breastfeeding.



To comment on the course of this thread I think most people have been great. I've seen one jab that I would have prefered not to see :twocents:

I think Amy919 has been great. She is confident in her choices and hasn't seem offended in the least IMO. Thanks Amy, for understanding where most participants in the convo are coming from I may not understand your choices, but I don't need to you are happy and I don't know your circumstances.:)

[UlrikeDG]

Ok, is it weird to think that's weird? I mean, I know it doesn't really matter, but if I'm nursing only one of my kids it's going to be the youngest one <snip>

...Extended BF is done for fine reasons with an emotionally healthy mother, but I also don't think it's a wild stretch to think of a mom extending the BF relationship by some subconsious psychological manipulation of the child. However, I think this would be extremely rare in the world of extended breastfeeding.

Re: Thing one. The older daughter weaned at age 5. The younger daughter is still nursing at age 7. So, yes, she's only nursing the younger one.

Re: Thing two. A friend of mine says (paraphrased), "Breastfeeding itself is not disfunctional. There are dysfunctional families that happen to breastfeed, and sometimes that dysfunction even manifests itself within the breastfeeding relationship specifically, but even in those cases, it is not the breastfeeding that is the problem." If you look at breastfeeding the way you look at any other expression of affection--hugging, kissing, tickling, cuddling, etc.--it works the same way. Within a dysfunctional relationship, all those things can be perverted. But they usually aren't. They're usually healthy, natural parts of our relationships with our children.

[amy919]

I agree with this statement to a point.I am a very proud ff mom,I chose to be.I don't feel attacked at all.I know that BF is better but I also know that formula isn't bad.It won't make my child less smarter or less healthier then any other child.I am bonded with my children and I love them dearly,if you think you bonded more with your bf babies well that's awesome,there is nothing like bonding with a baby,but like I said before I am bonded with my babies too,that is all that matters,not who bonded more with who.

I don't even understand why this thread is still going:confused:
If you BF kudos to you:thumbsup: if you FF kudos to you:thumbsup:
All of our children are beautiful,happy,healthy,and smart.We should all take pride in that,instead of talking about BF and FF and who did what and what is better and so on.It doesn't matter all of our children got fed and have thirved on what they were fed:D

I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm not offended, nor do I feel attacked by anything said in this thread. I made an informed choice to FF my children. If I felt some guilt because of that choice, maybe I would take offense, but I am comfortable with my decision.

As for BF children having higher IQs and getting sick less frequently, statistically this is certainly true. However, there are a thousand other factors that play into IQ levels and kids being sick that have absolutely nothing to do with FF or BF. You have to take that into consideration.

[amy919]

To comment on the course of this thread I think most people have been great. I've seen one jab that I would have prefered not to see :twocents:

I think Amy919 has been great. She is confident in her choices and hasn't seem offended in the least IMO. Thanks Amy, for understanding where most participants in the convo are coming from I may not understand your choices, but I don't need to you are happy and I don't know your circumstances.:)

Thank you:love:

[amy919]

You cannot possibly say that is true - you deliberately chose to give the (biologically speaking) inferior food source. If artificial baby milk better than startving? Absolutely. Is it equal to breastfeeding in ANY way? Absolutely not. It's a substitue, a replacement.

Formula feeding is not much different than moving your child FF as soon as the minimums are met, moving to a booster as soon as the minimums are met and moving to a seatbelt as soon as the minimums are met.

It's better than nothing, but it's not Best Practice.


I completely, respectfully wholeheartedly disagree. I do not think that these issues are even remotely related, at least in my case. I do not RF my children because it is statistically safer, I RF them because it is common sense to me that is a safer method.

[Simplysomething]

Interesting thread.

The only comment I have about the bonding things is...those of you who claim a different sort of bond with your breast fed children/vs your non breast fed children--how do you know it's from breast feeding? How do you know it's not because all children are different and sometimes bonding and relationships are different as well? My children are only almost 7 and 2years old, but there is a difference there, and I fed them both the same way as infants. It's weird too. My kids are weird.


I had a bunch of other stuff here, but deleted it. It wasn't mean or rude or anything. I just lost the point. lol

[UlrikeDG]

The only comment I have about the bonding things is...those of you who claim a different sort of bond with your breast fed children/vs your non breast fed children--how do you know it's from breast feeding?

All of my children were or are breastfeed, and yet our bonds are definitely unique. All relationships are different!

The issue with bonding and breastfeeding (vs not breastfeeding), however, is a biological one. Breastfeeding triggers the release of specific hormones which have been shown to cause a psychological response in moms. Literally, when you're breastfeeding, you have "bonding juice" flowing through your veins. Doesn't mean you don't bond with a child you haven't breastfed. Doesn't mean that some moms who breastfeed won't have weaker bonds with their kids than some moms who didn't. It just means that, chemically speaking, moms who breastfeed have a leg up on those who don't.

[CRS]

I wont say much, as this is such a sensitive subject! But I will say that saying "FF wont make my child any less intelligent or any less healthier then a BF child" IMO that is just as good as saying there are no benefits to BF IYKWIM? Studies show that breastfed infants/children etc reap many health benefits from being breastfed for many years after the fact. So yes, there is a difference *but* that doesn't mean a FF child would be unhealthy by any means! As for the mother of whom this thread was started about... honestly? It's not for me -at all- but? Each to their own I think :) I for one would not berate her, as I would not berate any FF mother. I find people are often apprehensive and have their 'guards' up when they're confronted with something they're not used to and know very little (if anything) about hence where confusion and debate/argument can start. I've read many a discussion about this mother and her 'feeding practices' (for lack of better word LOL) and people are often shocked and appalled and ready to jump up and down and exclaim that she is abusing her kids and getting some sort of unwholesome 'feelings' from the experience. But to me? She looked happy, her girls looked happy and although I personally would feel uncomfortable if she did that in front of me, that is her choice and as I said...... Each to their own...

[LovinMyBabies]

All of my children were or are breastfeed, and yet our bonds are definitely unique. All relationships are different!

The issue with bonding and breastfeeding (vs not breastfeeding), however, is a biological one. Breastfeeding triggers the release of specific hormones which have been shown to cause a psychological response in moms. Literally, when you're breastfeeding, you have "bonding juice" flowing through your veins. Doesn't mean you don't bond with a child you haven't breastfed. Doesn't mean that some moms who breastfeed won't have weaker bonds with their kids than some moms who didn't. It just means that, chemically speaking, moms who breastfeed have a leg up on those who don't.

Yes! I wrote a research article on breastfeeding. Alot of people refer to it as the "mothering" hormone. It's a relaxing, loving hormone. I forget the name of it right now...

Here's the quote "Breastfeeding also benefits the mother. It releases hormones including oxytocin and prolactin that have been found to relax the mother and cause her to feel more nurturing toward her infant."

And that is in no way saying FF moms aren't relaxed or nurturing. I'm just pointing out that the hormones that are stimulated by BFing already release these hormones. It's a pretty cool thing. :thumbsup:

[Synchro246]

Re: Thing two. A friend of mine says (paraphrased), "Breastfeeding itself is not disfunctional. There are dysfunctional families that happen to breastfeed, and sometimes that dysfunction even manifests itself within the breastfeeding relationship specifically, but even in those cases, it is not the breastfeeding that is the problem." If you look at breastfeeding the way you look at any other expression of affection--hugging, kissing, tickling, cuddling, etc.--it works the same way. Within a dysfunctional relationship, all those things can be perverted. But they usually aren't. They're usually healthy, natural parts of our relationships with our children.

Yes. That is what I basiclly mean--except that I wasn't thinking of how in the rare case of a mom who might be EXBFing due to some psychological issues that she would most definitly be doing something ELSE due to those same psychological issues if she weren't breastfeeding (and I'd say the child would be ~equally harmed). Good expansion of the point :thumbsup: it basically makes all the fuss about breastfeeding a 5-7 YO moot.

[Susan in MI]

There is no way to know how much one thing will affect kids. With my oldest, who breastfed for 6 months, I didn't really bond well with her until after she was on formula. It didn't have anything to do with how she was fed, it had to do with the fact that I was violently ill the whole pregnancy with her. My body, spirit and mind were weak and sick after so many months of illness. I needed time to recover before I could bond properly.

My middle dd, who breastfed for 7 months, had oral motor issues, including speech and language delays. She suffered from severe reflux, allergies, asthma and excezma. Her health actually improved when she went on formula. This is because she was aspirating all thin liquids and the breast milk in her lungs didn't do her any good. Her formula was thickened and her health improved because it wasn't ending up in her lungs.

Neither of these are typical situations, but they happened to me. I am a strong believer in breastfeeding and faught many problems to feed all of my girls. I do think breast is best, in most cases, but I won't degrade anyone for chosing not to, although I admit, I don't understand it.

[AdventureMom]

Wow. Some of the responses on this thread are hostile. And I only read the last two pages. I BF Nolan until he was 3 1/2. He would've continued if I hadn't weaned him. But I was facing some health issues that I needed to get to the bottom of and weaning him was part of trying to get me healthy again. Now we are trying to adopt b/c we cannot have any more biological children. Because of my health issues (which a few of you know about), I will not be re-lactating but will be using formula or donated breastmilk from friends. But that's alot to ask to supply enough breastmilk to feed an infant fulltime. I have no choice but to use formula. And I will feed our new baby (if we're lucky enough to adopt) with the same love and enthusiasm as when I nursed Nolan.

It's like c-sections: I planned an out-of-hospital birth but ended up with an emergency c-section in order to save Nolan's life. I do not regret it. Far from being the non-violent, gentle birth I dreamed of, it was the way my son came into this world. And I embrace it for that... :)

The same for feeding a baby. Breast is best - that's true. But many people FF vs BF for different reasons. A happy family is the best family - both in terms of emotionally and physically. :thumbsup:

[BrookeSLP]

Interesting thoughts. I am for extended breastfeeding -- until age 3 or so. I DO think that 7 is too old. I don't really think it is 'natural' at all. Having grown up on a ranch with all the various animals, I saw every animal mother (cow, horse, pigs, sheep, deer,etc.) actively wean their young. They pushed the babies away until they gave up nursing. That is the way NATURE does it, active weaning, not baby led weaning. Just my 2 cents. I realize I am in the minority. I have nursed all three of mine, btw, the first two well past the first birthday.

:twocents:

[UlrikeDG]

Brooke, check out this article: A Natural Age of Weaning (http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html) by Katherine Dettwyler, PhD. It makes a lot more sense to compare nursing humans to other primates, not to bovine, equine, swine, ovine, cervine or other hooved creatures!

[Morganthe]

Brooke, check out this article: A Natural Age of Weaning (http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html) by Katherine Dettwyler, PhD. It makes a lot more sense to compare nursing humans to other primates, not to bovine, equine, swine, ovine, cervine or other hooved creatures!

Thanks for the link. I liked reading it. I'm sending it to my mom :)
I got a laugh out of this :
3. It has been common for pediatricians to claim that most mammals wean their offspring when they have tripled their birth weight, suggesting a weaning age of 1 year in humans. Again though, this is affected by body weight, with larger mammals nursing their offspring until they have quadrupled their birth weight. In humans, quadrupling of birth weight occurs between 2.5 and 3.5 years, usually.

DD upped her 5lb birth weight in 1 year to 20lbs! I don't know if that's considered tripling or quadrupling :confused: She added another 5lbs in six months too.
I"m certainly glad I didn't go by either statistic :p ;)

[hsjwmom]

Well, I avoided looking at the clip all this time because I thought that I would be a bit freaked out. I just finished watching it and I actually thought it was touching. It really made me miss that sense of giving and closeness with my daughters. They weaned at 15 and 14 months.

I adore both my daughters, but there really is a difference with how I bonded with each. The pregnancies were difficult but different enough. I don't really know how to explain it without writing a book! My first didn't nurse well untill I had a lactation consultant help me. She was 5 weeks early, so the LC told me to supplement with formula. In hindsight, she really DIDN'T need it. With my second, I knew what I was doing and she nursed like a champ. She was also 5 weeks early, but nobody ever suggested that I supplement.

Interesting thing to note, my first was hardly EVER sick. I think she went her first year without a single illness. My second had cold after cold! BUT, neither has ever had an ear infection. From what I understand, that is pretty unusual.

I think the bond will be different with each child because YOU are different. You will never be a first time mom more than once, lol. With your second, you can relax more and simply enjoy the baby. This is all generally speaking, of course! Each child is going to be different, too! The more I think about it, the more complex it seems!

Anyway, just my :twocents: I have really enjoyed all the different points of view.

[Gypsy]

More on watching your language, the risks of infant formula.

http://www.breastfeedingtaskforla.org/ABMRisks.htm

The Risks of Infant Formula Feeding

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Selling Out Mothers and Babies - Marketing of Breast Milk Substitutes in the USA

The practice of feeding babies infant formula, rather than breastmilk carries with it profound risks in modern, industrialized countries, as well as, in developing countries. While many are familiar with the well-publicized tragedies of formula-fed infants in developing countries, many are unaware of how the lack of breastmilk and the use of infant formula compromise the health and well being of children in the United States. These risks are well documented in the medical literature. A few are listed below.

Illness and Hospitalization

*

Formula feeding accounts for up to 26% of insulin dependent diabetes mellitus in children.
*

Otitis media (middle ear infection) is up to 3-4 times as prevalent in formula-fed infants.
*

US Formula fed infants have a 10 fold risk of being hospitalized for any bacterial infection.

Mortality

* One sudden infant death for every 1000 live birth occurs as a result of failure to breastfeed in western industrialized nations.

* For every 1000 babies born in the U.Ss each year, four die because they are not breastfed.

Development and Intelligence

* Scores on the Bayley Mental Development Index were lower in formula-fed children at 1-2 years of age. Scores were directly correlated with the duration of breastfeeding.

* Formula fed preterm infants had lower IQ scores (8 points) at age 7-8 years than breastfed premies, even after adjustment for mother's education and social class.

Composition and contamination of infant formula

* Due to an excessive phosphate load in formula, formula fed infants face a 30 fold risk of neonatal hypocalcemic tetany (convulsions, seizures, twitching) during the first 10 days of life.

* Formula fed infants are at a high risk of exposure to life-threatening bacterial contamination. Enterobacter sakazakii is a frequent contaminant in powdered formula and can cause sepsis and meningitis in newborns.

Barriers to breastfeeding

Increasing breastfeeding rates will decrease the risks of formula feeding while optimizing the benefits of breastfeeding. however, there are many barriers to breastfeeding affecting both initiation and duration:

*

Misinformation and lack of knowledge
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Personal attitudes
*

Cultural norm
*

Lack of support – by family, partner, hospital, and workplace
*

Hospital practices and policies
*

Formula companies’ advertising and hospital practices.
*

Rare maternal or infant medical conditions

In 1997, Los Angeles county ranked 53rd out of 58 counties for 28% exclusive breastfeeding rates at hospital discharge, while falling far below the state average of 43%.

[jmm3]

I don't post much in here, and really hesitate to join into this thread because I feel like it is a little hostile even though most people are being very civil.

But, this last post made me decide to jump in. I was not able to successfully breastfeed my children, I tried very hard with my first, then tried again with my second, but with her medical problems, the only option was pumping, and that was not working for me.

I do not feel guilty, because I did try, and wanted to bf. I knew it was the best thing to do, but it didn't work out. With all the stress of a sick baby, and my lack of success, it was better in the long run I feel to just let it go and focus on other things.

What makes me feel somewhat attacked is when people constantly talk about how bad formula is. I understand you want more people to bf, but just like you don't like being looked at while bfing in public, don't judge those who don't bf. I get that formula is not as good, I think you'd have to live under a rock to not know that. I think having the information available is great, but hearing all the time about how what you have to use to feed your child is "dangerous" and your child will be sick and not smart and not as loved is just hurtful.

A lot of the statistics sound more like scare tactics to me. I didn't have time to look at all of these today, but I went to the references on some of these "facts" listed below. To me, it just confirmed that these sounded like exaggerations.

More on watching your language, the risks of infant formula.

http://www.breastfeedingtaskforla.org/ABMRisks.htm

The Risks of Infant Formula Feeding
These risks are well documented in the medical literature. A few are listed below.

Illness and Hospitalization
*
Formula feeding accounts for up to 26% of insulin dependent diabetes mellitus in children.



Here is a quote from the abstract of the article cited as giving this information:
"The amount of IDDM that might be explained by breast-feeding habits (population percentage attributable risk) ranged from 2 to 26%, varying according to the breast-feeding prevalence reported in other studies. Replication of this work in different populations, controlled for the strong secular trends in breast-feeding habits, is critical before the hypothesis of protection is accepted."

Your statistic cited only lists the maximum of potential risk (I know it says "up to 26%" but to me 2% vs. 26% is a big difference, and fails to mention the autors feeling that replication is critical before the hypothesis is accepted. Also, in the abstract it shows the confidence intervals, and they are not all that strong.


Composition and contamination of infant formula

* Formula fed infants are at a high risk of exposure to life-threatening bacterial contamination. Enterobacter sakazakii is a frequent contaminant in powdered formula and can cause sepsis and meningitis in newborns.


Here is a quote from the abstract of this cited article: "The outbreak occurred in a 20-bed neonatal intensive care unit during a six-week period in 1988, and involved a total of four infants. Three infants had sepsis and three had bloody diarrhea; all patients responded to intravenous antibiotics and recovered without complications."

To me, calling it a "frequent contaminant" is a bit much based on this article. The outbreak was also in a NICU, where spread and risk of bacterial infection is much greater than a typical infant at home. Also, a total of four infants who all recovered was all that was mentioned.

Like I said, I agree that bfing is the way to go, but just wanted to point out some things that I have found. No statistic is ever perfect.

[Synchro246]

Interesting thoughts. I am for extended breastfeeding -- until age 3 or so. I DO think that 7 is too old. I don't really think it is 'natural' at all. Having grown up on a ranch with all the various animals, I saw every animal mother (cow, horse, pigs, sheep, deer,etc.) actively wean their young. They pushed the babies away until they gave up nursing. That is the way NATURE does it, active weaning, not baby led weaning. Just my 2 cents. I realize I am in the minority. I have nursed all three of mine, btw, the first two well past the first birthday.

:twocents:

Brooke, check out this article: A Natural Age of Weaning (http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html) by Katherine Dettwyler, PhD. It makes a lot more sense to compare nursing humans to other primates, not to bovine, equine, swine, ovine, cervine or other hooved creatures!

I agree with both of you. Primates do actively (and almost always gently) wean their young. Another way to infer an appropriate age for human weaning is is from a recent study by :confused: I can't remember:confused: who compared the weaning ages of a bunch of non-human primates and they all weaned about the age that the young's first permanant molars came in. This is about 4-5 years old in humans.

I feel really OK with being a participant in the weaning process and I don't think child led weaning is natural (unless the mom never has the urge to stop/limit nursing).
I do think that if we weaning naturally is a goal of a woman that she should be careful to try to figure out what her body's cues are and try to figure out what the societal influence is. If that makes any sense. . .I'm all for a woman participating in the weaning process, but she should be careful not do do it early based on societal influence. . .still not feeling clear LOL. I need to go to bed.


getting OT-
I did feel like I learned a lot of parenting lessons from watching my dog closely. She responded proptly to her puppies cries--Unconditionally. She would nurse a lot, when the babies got older she started putting limits on nursing (and some puppies more than others) and the weaning process was gradual. She would sometimes growl at the puppies when they were being annoying:p .



ETA--now I look at the link and the name of the researcher is there. The study was on 21 non-human primates.

[Gypsy]

First permanent molars usually come in around age 6, they are often called the "six year molars" and I have heard of them coming in anywhere between 5 & 8 years.

[UlrikeDG]

I can't remember:confused: who compared the weaning ages of a bunch of non-human primates and they all weaned about the age that the young's first permanant molars came in. This is about 4-5 years old in humans.

It's the first study listed in the article I linked: "1. In a group of 21 species of non-human primates (monkeys and apes) studied by Holly Smith, she found that the offspring were weaned at the same time they were getting their first permanent molars. In humans, that would be: 5.5-6.0 years."

Interestingly, my son who weaned later got his molars later than my daughter who weaned earlier. They're two years apart in age, but have gotten the same number of adult teeth in.

[Synchro246]

Ahh, I remembered it wrong! Thanks for the correction. I do think there's lots of variation for normal on age of teeth coming in. My son didn't get ANY teeth until he was 9 months old and he wasn't at all interested in food (though I tried--stupidly) until shortly after. I have always wondered if age of initial teeth eruption has some correlation to age of interest in food. From the anecdotal observation in my life it seems to hold true so far.

[Mumoflittleguys]

I have always wondered if age of initial teeth eruption has some correlation to age of interest in food. From the anecdotal observation in my life it seems to hold true so far.

Purely anecdotally here, but both of my boys got their first teeth at 5 months old, and they routinely cut 4+ at once. However, they're not actually interested in solids until 9-10 months. Just to throw a monkey wrench into that though, they have a family history (DH) of life-threatening food allergies, and I wonder how much that affects their interest in solids. Our doctor never batted an eye at their delayed interest in solids. He said given their dad's history, he was sure it was a self-protective mechanism, and encouraged me to go with it (I was anyway).

[UlrikeDG]

It looks like this thread has been pretty much exhausted. I'm going to go ahead and lock it.