European seats and South Africa

[LuciaBella]

Hey guys,
so...why no chest clip? I'm assuming they crash test them that way and some seats go flying through the roof in terms of safety--especially swedish seats I've heard.

I'm wondering why we have chest clips. Also, I'm planning on traveling to South Africa with the girls I nanny for a year starting in January. They are 3.5 and 1.5 and are both still rear facing.
How can I look up what the laws are for South African child restraints. Also, Should I buy car seats when we get there or bring ours or what?!

[ketchupqueen]

Chest clips are a pre-crash positioner. They don't restrain the child. In Europe they just make the straps closer together and put a grippy thing on the shoulder pads to hold the straps in place. They have a law that you must be able to release a child with one button. So, chest clips not necessary on those seats. :) As long as they are properly tightened, it's fine!

I'm betting that car seats are pretty much a novelty in South Africa. You can contact the American consulate there or the State Department (I'm assuming you're American) and find out through them what the local laws are-- if there are any. There may not be. I'm thinking it is best to bring your own since selection will most probably be poor and you might have to special-order them. Alternatively, if you know where you will be staying, you can ship them ahead-- either American seats, or buy European seats online and have them ship directly there. You might look at www.carseat.se for information on the wide variety of Swedish seats available.

[Adventuredad]

Ketchupqueen is as usual correct. As far as I know a car seat must be certified in South Africa to be used. Just like Europe it doesn't matter if a foreign seat is used for a day by a visitor or a year by a resident, it must still be legal in SOuth Africa.

In reality this is of course very different. As Ketchup says, finding kids in cars seats. especially RF, in SA is not common so IMHO you can use any seat you want and no one will care.

Ketchup explained the chest clip issue which is a common question by parents.

[LuciaBella]

OK so enough about the chest clip...I looked online and I basically found 3 car seats for South Africa. One is an infant bucket-not an option. Another is a group 0+/1 seat that goes up to 9kgs. Not an option because Bella is now 20lbs.
The other one is called the Chelino racer seat:
http://www.edreams.co.za/store/edreams/product/30221/
It's a group 1/2 however it doesn't say when you have to FF. It just says 9-25kgs. I would buy 2 of these in a heart beat if they RF to 25kgs. Plus they are only R1400 which is about 230USD!

[ketchupqueen]

A group 1 seat is forward-facing only (in all but very rare cases.) A group 2 is a booster. So that is a combination seat-- forward facing to booster. It does not rear-face. That's pretty expensive for a combo seat-- similar to the Britax Frontier, and it does not look like it would last as long. Most probably the harness is to 40 lbs., and the booster to 55...

I would be all over that European seat if I were you.

[LuciaBella]

So basically, RF is out of the option when we are in SA?

[ketchupqueen]

As far as seats I'm finding that are sold in SA, yes.

Since that's not safe, I'd personally make the choice to use a US or ECE certified seat that could be used RF.

[ketchupqueen]

So, after looking up the actual law, it's kind of scary. There are no actual age requirements to use a seat-- just "Child restraints and seatbelts must be used if present in the car." :eek:

It does state that the SA safety mark must be on it, but honestly considering if you don't have a CR with you you're not even required to use one I really don't think anyone is going to be stopping you and asking to see the SA safety mark!

[QuassEE]

When travelling..the safest choice isn't always the legal choice. IMO, it's not a difficult decision to make. As a tourist, you can always claim ignorance!

-Nicole.

[ketchupqueen]

Yes, that's exactly what I would do if challenged (which I don't think you will be.) "Oh, really? The seat needs to have a special mark? Sorry!"

[LuciaBella]

So...technically I could buy a couple Multi-techs or two-way plus', RF them to 55 lbs (not that they will make it there in a year) and just claim ignorance if asked.

Honestly, when I was there last year no one used seat belts and that made me super nervous!
We are going to Germany for a month in January, so I could just say we bought seats over there for SA...I feel so bad how I'm planning out how I'm going to lie, but they aren't that strict in SA.

I just want the safest for my girls, and considering their safety is up to me (their parents turned both of them around at 1yr 20lbs), I'd rather play ignorant!

[ketchupqueen]

I honestly don't think you'll have to lie. I doubt anyone will ever ask. Ever.

Shipping to Germany would almost certainly be cheaper than to SA. ;)

[LuciaBella]

ok, well then in that case-multi tech or two way!?!

[ketchupqueen]

How big are these kids? Multi-Tech is taller, but Two-Way is easier to install. :)

[InternationalMama]

Are you in the US now? What seats do the kids currently ride in? Why not just buy them two Radian XTSLs for $250 each. Then you'll eliminate the one place someone -might- give you trouble about an illegal seat: customs.

I mean, I know it's very sexy to have a Swedish seat, but unless these are really tall/heavy kids I don't see why an American seat wouldn't work. They'll be cheaper, easier to get, keep the kids safe and comfy on the plane, and you'll have them at the airport when you arrive if you need to drive somewhere. Plus, you avoid customs.

I'm all for buying Swedish seats if that's the only legal alternative, but if we're talking illegal apples or illegal oranges I'd go with the US seats. Plus in a year you'll return to the US where those Swedish seats -won't- be legal either and at the very least won't be replaced by the insurance company if you are in an accident.

[LuciaBella]

Lucia is 3.5 and 33 lbs about. She's currently in a RN XT on the 3rd straps RF. When she's in the MA, RF she's on the 2nd slots. She seems similar to your Bridget.

Bella is 1.5 and just over 20. Possibly around 22-haven't weighed them recently. She's still in her safe seat on the middle slots, about to outgrow it height wise, and also the MA which she is on the bottom slots for RF. I haven't put her in the Radian because it just engulfs her little body. She's pretty petite.

[ketchupqueen]

Well, sounds like they have plenty of growth room in their current seats. :)

You can either keep them in those seats (cheapest solution) or I'd choose the Two-Way if you buy a Swedish seat. :)

[LuciaBella]

Are you in the US now? What seats do the kids currently ride in? Why not just buy them two Radian XTSLs for $250 each. Then you'll eliminate the one place someone -might- give you trouble about an illegal seat: customs.

I mean, I know it's very sexy to have a Swedish seat, but unless these are really heavy kids I don't see why an American seat wouldn't work. They'll be cheaper, easier to get, keep the kids safe and comfy on the plane, and you'll have them at the airport when you arrive if you need to drive somewhere. Plus, you avoid customs.

I'm all for buying Swedish seats if that's the only legal alternative, but if we're talking illegal apples or illegal oranges I'd go with the US seats. :two cents:

Hey there, I totally agree!
Bella is in a graco safe seat, but she needs a new seat soon anyways. Lucia is RF in an XT already, so no need to buy a new one. I might buy a XTSL for Lucia, so she can RF longer, then put Bella in the old XT.
The only thing is that we will be in Germany for a month and I know they are more strict with car seats than South Africa.

Here is my plan: bring Lucia's XT, use it on the plane-probably FF because we have tried it RF and it's a you-know-what on the plane. Don't bring a seat for Bella because last time we went to Europe, we brought her seat and she just wanted to be held the whole time. It was a waste of $400. She ends up sleeping the whole flight and that's perfectly fine with me because I am usually exhausted!
Some of the parents friends are moving from Germany to the US for a year and need seats, so I was thinking of just buying new seats-or borrowing theirs for a year-and doing a little switcheroo.

sound good?

[InternationalMama]

Some of the parents friends are moving from Germany to the US for a year and need seats, so I was thinking of just buying new seats-or borrowing theirs for a year-and doing a little switcheroo.

sound good?

Do you know what seats these friends of the parents have? Germans are -not- into extended rear facing and most people turn their kids forward facing around 9 months of age.

I personally would buy one more Radian and use the two RNs on the plane (or if you must check one I'd rather check a Radian than any other seat because it's made of steel). But you'll have to make sure the cars you're using can handle the recline of a Radian.

Or I would bring one XT and the Safeseat for Germany and then later when the younger one outgrows the Safeseat consider a Swedish seat.

Or you could look again at that South Africa O+/1 seat. Are you sure it only rear faces to 9kg? The group O+ is actually 13kg so it may rear face to close to 30 lbs and both work for her and be legal. :)

Just ideas off the top of my head. HTH.

[LuciaBella]

I believe one of the seats they have is a brio zinto- I haven't really researched that one, but these are very intelligent parents. They are from sweden and were appalled to hear that the girls parents FF them. I'm hoping that seat is a good one.
I will email and see what the other seat is. Both their children are the same age and about the same stature, so I'm assuming they have high RF limits... (crosses fingers!)

Is there a website I can access that has international child restraint laws?

[InternationalMama]

Is there a website I can access that has international child restraint laws?

I don't know. But if you find it let me know. :)

You should have said the parents are from Sweden. :) I think the Brio Zento is a good seat. It's not the tallest Swedish seat out there and some kids have comfort issues, but it would probably work for your kids. You can find a good review with discussion of these issues in the reviews section on here.

Personally I'd rather have the Radians because you can take them on the plane with you and you won't need to be mailing them or checking them as luggage, but then I'm very big into taking the seats onto the plane with you. :) If you do want to trade 1-2 Zentos I'm sure you could make them work. As a bonus if you took a Zento the parents could show you how to install it.

[LuciaBella]

Ketchupqueen, where did you find the information about SA safety laws? Please send it my way!

I just found out that mom is expecting twins due in April, so this adds another confusing factor onto the situation. I'm going to need 2 buckets for the new babies.

I posted another thread on the configuration and which car to get. Maybe you can help!? Thanks!